Band Name: Townsend, Devin
Interviewed: Devin Townsend
Interviewer: Jason Fisher
Date: 2009-11-12
The Gauntlet: How is everything in Canada?
Devin: Just watching some TV and going to rehearsals later tonight.
The Gauntlet: Rehearsal's for the tour?
Devin: That's right. We are starting January 5th with Between the Buried and Me and Cynic.
The Gauntlet: You are using different musicians
for each of the four albums. Which carnation of the band goes out on the road with you?
Devin: It is kind of a shit mix in all honesty. The nature of
this four record project is not to be a definition of what I am hoping
to achieve in my music career, but more of an overview to prepare not
only myself but also my audience on what I hope to do in the future. Bu
nature of that is what I have done with these four records is include
different musicians for each one. Each record has a specific identity
and as a result of that, the people who are chosen for each are
congruent to that energy that is needed for the record. When it comes
to live, I think there is also an element in trepidation for me as it
has been years since I have been touring. My personal life has changed
dramatically since the last time I have toured. When I considered
putting the band together, among the top priorities for me was
something that would sustain itself. I wanted a group of individuals
that would be able to participate with each other without constant
input from me on the personal side of it. I want to be able to carry on
with my world and do my thing and know the band is getting along and
interacting in a way that is self contained. What i did was choose
people along those guidelines, people that I had a good personal
relationship with. I also needed about 15 albums of varied material to
be represented accurately. I got Brian who played on "Addicted!", Dave
who played keyboard in Devin Townsend Band. He is more than a keyboard
player, just an all around great guy. Rehearsal's have been going
really well. I really want to get out there, but a part of me is
nervous as this will be the first time going out there completely
honest, sober and without the mask. A lot of it is just jumping into
the abyss. I realize that the way things are with the economy, you have
to make yourself available to those that support you. Part of the
process is getting over my fear of people. I am not terrified of
people, but I am just not a social person. Everyone has fear, but
fortune rewards the brave.
The Gauntlet: I have been listening to the new album "Addicted"
all week and I was a bit taken back at first. It wasn't what I was
expecting, but it grew on me.
Devin: There is an element that the audience has a need to
categorize an artist into genres and sub-genres. I think that the
nature of what I do has always been a cathartic reflection of whatever
my current personal life or emotional state of mind represents. On some
levels, I have felt awkward about that in the past but you play the
cards you are dealt. If that is your creative process, then you just do
that. The nature of every record is going to be different as it is
going to be a reaction to the one before. Addicted is a reaction in
part to the reaction of "Ki." I guess the nature of what this four
record project is supposed to represent is four very distinct
personalities as a whole that are supposed to summarize that I can do a
lot of things. My mood dictates the direction this will go. With "Ki" a
lot of people felt it lacked that typical Devin Townsend thing whatever
that is. So with Addicted, there is a bit of that. Still with that,
there are people that are attached to Strapping Young Lad that think it
will miss that visceral and psychotic element, but there are still two
more records. What you don't get from this one you may get from the
next one. Everything I do, as arrogant as this may sound, I am
completely satisfied with. Addicted was exactly what I wanted to do and
so was Ki.
The Gauntlet: I wasn't expecting Addicted to be a SYL album, but I was expecting it to be what you told fans to expect, a pop albums
.
Devin: This is about as pop as I am capable of. I think there is
this perception thing as well. The rhetoric I throw out in forums and
in interviews is sometime my process. I did a record called
"Accelerated Evolution" a few years back and was selling it to the
label and told them it was a pop album. They thought cool and set up
the marketing around a Devin Townsend pop album. When they got it, they
felt it was pretty far from pop. To me it was as pop as I am capable
of. With Addicted, my version of pop is maybe less or a literal
definition of it. There is an ease to Addicted that wasn't in Strapping
[Young Lad]. To me, Addicted is the most immediate record that I have
produced. Maybe wrongfully, but I equate that to pop. There you go,
here is my pop record.
The Gauntlet: To me it is more classically done than pop. Anneke's vocal's are perfect on this album.
Devin: Oh yeah, she is a siren.
The Gauntlet: This album seems a little better suited to her
than The Gathering. I often felt she was sort of plugged into that band
as an afterthought and vocally didn't reach her full potential.
Devin: There are kind of like these fate versus free will things
that happens with lots of folks. I will take the fifth on that. I think
it is somewhere between the both. As far as fate goes, my meeting with
her was such a cool coincidence. I always enjoyed that dichotomy
between male and female vocals. I tried to make it a little less than a
surface thing to not turn people off immediately, but part of it is
like addiction to whatever; your ego, whatever. It has never been
gender specific. Having that dichotomy was important, not only on
"Addicted" but also Ki. Anneke sent me an email like two weeks before I
was going to record the vocals. I knew I wanted a strong female
presence. I woke up one morning and there was an email with her singing
my vocals better than I did. I was just like 'that makes a lot of
sense.' I was very into The Gathering, specifically "Mandylion". It was
a real thrill for me that someone that I had so much respect for
offered something vocally that I am not capable of was interested in
participating. I said to her why don't you come to Vancouver next week.
I told her to participate as much or as little as she wanted on
"Addicted" and in return I would help her write her record. She came
out and we got along well. She is in similar age as me and we have had
similar experiences with Century Media and she has a child. There were
a lot of parallels that not only helped artistically but also on other
levels with what I wanted for "Addicted" and I couldn't be happier.
The Gauntlet: I assumed these songs
were written for her as they just capture her voice so well.
Devin: She is one of those singers that can sing the phone book.
I wrote "Addicted" with the mindset that there was a certain element
for the songs. In all honesty, on a lot of songs that she ended up
singing on, they were originally going to be with me singing the parts.
When she came to the studio, I was just really interested in singing
these incredibly high vocal parts. As soon as she starts singing them,
it's like oh 'wow!' She was not only open to it but also gracious about
it. She enjoys the music and we had a good meeting of the minds. Again, it is like I don't
subscribe to fate, but as far as I do subscribe, this was one of those
instances.
The Gauntlet: "Ki" had female vocals also, will the final two albums also have the male/female thing going?
Devin: "Deconstruction" is an entirely different beast. With
"Addicted," I wanted equal male and female parts. With "Ki" I wanted
female parts to punctuate it. "Deconstruction" is a hard one to
describe. The more I do, it just sounds like a journey up my own ass in
a lot of ways. The bottom line with it is it is a very complicated and
interesting record with a lot of dynamics and music that is very heavy
even for me. It is a really heavy and complicated record but not a
typical metal record. It is more of a symphonic type of thing I am
trying to do, whether I succeed someone else will have to judge. I want
to include a lot of different musicians in the metal genre that can do
the vocals that I am not good at, like death metal vocals. When I do death metal vocals, I sound like Super Grover. Having
those type of people do it is the same as having Anneke on Addicted.
The Gauntlet: I think that is why everything on "Addicted"
works. You didn't add female vocals because it will sell a few more
albums, you used her because there was an underlying need.
Devin: That plays into the concept of "Addicted." Society gets
hung up on a lot of things right? One of the things that everyone was
really taken back by was how pornography becomes like a crack cocaine.
It is so easily accessible with the internet. In a lot of ways, it does
a disservice. I am not trying to come across as a sensitive liberated
cat. You have good men, bad men, good women, and bad women. Essentially
everyone is trying to get the same thing out of life; to feel good. A
lot of time I see a female vocalist in music, I see the token female in
music. She has a lot of makeup on and plays the bass or keyboards or
something. I am not painting them all with the same brush as there are
some excellent female bass players and keyboardists. What I was
interested in with "Addicted" was two strong humans; one that offers
something that the other can't. It is like a man and woman
relationship. There are reasons men and women are together sex aside,
they offer things the others need. There is a metaphor for that with
"Addicted," the strong female not trying to be a male but a sense of
strength. My voice is incapable of producing some parts and so having
Anneke on the record was needed. Even from the concept, I did not want
a token female. In every bit, she is much better of a singer than I am.
So you get both sides to the equation, here is a man singing about the
same ideas.
The Gauntlet: On the tour, who will handle the female vocals?
Devin: Until the record sells, the backing track [laughs]. This
first tour for me is just me getting my feet wet. There are financial
implications with bringing Anneke over. This first tour is to see
whether after a few years I am still viable as a product and artist and
if people are going to support that. If it does sell and the tour is
enough of a success to afford it, then we'd love to bring her along. In
this beginning stage, I have to tread softly and just see what happens.
We have a short set so there won't be a lot of parts from "Addicted."
It won't be a disservice to the music by not having her. My whole plan
musically is to have a lot of performers on stage other than myself and
we can make the whole thing a big production. But for the first tour,
we will do a couple of Addicted songs and I am trying to go with songs
that have her more in the background so it isn't noticeable. As you
know it is expensive.
The Gauntlet: As long as it isn't yourself or Brian doing her parts.
Devin: I tried that last night in the rehearsals and we ended up scrapping that song because I don't sound very good doing that song.
The Gauntlet: that is the stuff you need to post to Youtube.
Devin: I have a youtube account I keep updated with embarrassing
stuff. It is like a buffer, if you beat everyone to the punch with
insulting you, they have nothing to hit you with. I might have to tape
a rehearsal and try that though.
The Gauntlet: The song "Hyperdrive" appears on "Addicted!" Were you not happy with it the first time?
Devin: I am absolutely happy with it. The thing is, Hyperdrive
was written and was kind of the odd man out. The "Ziltoid the
Omniscient" material was so specifically rooted in what it was with the
signatures and arpeggio's. The thing that was kind of strange was
"Hyperdrive" came out of all that and at the same time which is
unusual. When I am writing a style I normally stay that style. I didn't
know if I should include that song into the story but it worked really
well. But there was always something in my head that made me want to
present that song amongst other songs. The first thing that Anneke sent
me in her email was a video of her singing "Hyperdrive". Up to that
point, I didn't really consider it an option but characterized by the
fact that I did what to hear it with other music and completely different, it seemed like a great opportunity to put it into play.
The Gauntlet: Is it a distrust of labels with you that has led you to avoid labels?
Devin: By 'avoiding labels' can you clarify that?
The Gauntlet: Generally bands have to get completely fucked by a
label for them to start their own label but you have always been in
control through your own HevyDevy Records.
Devin: I think that it is an important step to becoming an
established musician. You gotta get that ass fucking over with early.
Once you get that out of the way...it is like establishing your
relationship with a girl. A lot of bands are in this fantasy. Once you
get that fantasy out of the way, life gets a lot easier. I did the
Steve Vai project when I was 19. My introduction to the music world was
profoundly negative. How much of that was personal perception? The
experience I had with [Steve] Vai has defined me in many ways and we
are better friends now than we have ever been. I really reacted to him
negatively in a lot of ways and made things difficult for him at the
time because of my perception of the reality. My connection to the
labels...you talk about me retaining the control, I have always been a
control freak. That retaining the control has allowed me to make the
music I do on some levels and on other levels it has not allowed me to
progress. There is an element of jumping into the abyss that is needed
for you to know whether you have got the balls to handle it. What I am
trying to do now is jump into the abyss. I have never taken that plunge
because I have been afraid of losing that control. Not the creative
control, but that sense that everything is under my power. I think
there are trust issues that go along with that as well. Now we are
distributed by Century Media. I had a 15 year long relationship with
them that was soured in a lot of ways by not only my perceptions from
the Vai days, but also drugs; smoking a lot of weed and doing lots of
acid. There are some people that are predisposed to mental instability
and if you add drugs to that equation you get paranoid, aggressive and
distrust issues. What this four album project chronicles is a period of
personal growth in which I quit everything. I quit the drugs, quit the
booze, quit the band, had a baby, moved, cut my hair off...a lot of
things that typically are not elements in my personality that I would
chose to engage in. Having it in a way forced upon me made me
reevaluate my connection to labels. What I came to the conclusion of is
that a lot of the things I was paranoid and afraid of are just
reflections of my own insecurity. Now that I have a more clear head, I
am able to compartmentalize things a little better and ask myself what
I want to do with the rest of my life. I really enjoy making music and
enjoy performing for people. The fact that I am able to eek out a
living performing for people is a blessing. I have taken it fore
granted for so long. All everyone is really trying to do is feed their
family. So I went back to Century Media a couple months back and I sat
down with them and realized that they are friends in a lot of ways and
people I have known for years. Everyone is the same and trying to feed
their families and express their creativity in some way. So I suggested
we just play ball together and asked them what about me has been
difficult in our relationship. Now with the labels that I am with, it
is a new world in a lot of ways. Have I missed the boat? Who knows. I
am able to make a living so I am satisfied while being able to make
music. I am thrilled with Inside Out and Century Media. I am so honored
that after 15 years, to some degree, people are willing to listen to
what I have to say. I am thrilled that people will give my new album a
listen or two. You have to recognize the people in your life you need
to keep.
The Gauntlet: How are things now between you and Vai?
Devin: My relationship with Steve was so awkward for both of us
in many ways. I was in L.A. recently and we got together. I have
immense respect for him. There are elements of his creative process in
my creative process. Sometimes people's life lessons require them to
learn at a different pace. Whether those financial rewards ever come,
it is basically a journey, and through that journey I realized that
Steve Vai is one hell of a dude and a good friend. It has taken me 15
years to come to that and the things that I liked about him. The things
I disliked about him were parallels in my own development.
The Gauntlet: Was the kicking of the drug habit the first step or the result of your new way of thinking?
Devin: I was never a heavy drug user. I never really did
anything but weed. There is a notion that it is a benign drug, right?
If you a predisposed to any mental issue that is genetically in your
family or any type of weakness, it gets exacerbated by drugs. I have
tons of friends that can drink with dinner and have a toke and are
fine. With me, a little was never enough. I found myself so fascinated
with marijuana and it became part of my process. As a result of that,
out of necessity, I became so paranoid about what I was doing and
saying that I needed to take it all apart and get to the root of it. It
was disappointing as I had so many great times with weed and booze. As
my paranoia went away, I realized that a lot of it was a direct result.
What I found was I was having these crazy little paranoid acid trips.
It paralyzed me artistically, personally and intellectually. It was
self preservation. I am not saying you shouldn't some weed or drink,
but for me, I wanted to entertain and continue making music. I wanted
to be the best person I could be. One plus one equals two and I just
quite doing that. This four record process is basically the chronology
of my personal growth. For the first two years, I would pick up the
guitar and could only play these shitty blues licks. I had so much
invested in the old ways. It took me a couple of years to learn that it
was myself responded honestly to the stimulus musically. I had to
relearn and the process of relearning resulted in these four records.
"Ki" represents a certain period of personal growth. "Ki" is here for
the same reason that "Addicted!" is here. I was just trying to
progress. I wish I could just pick up the guitar and go, but it isn't
like that. What I do is always a direct correlation to my life. I am
heading towards 40 and this is where I am at.
The Gauntlet: I am almost there. I am 34.
Devin: I hear you man. I remember when I was in my early
twenties. I would wake up in the morning and put on Godflesh and Morbid
Angel to set myself up for the day. If I hear metal before five in the
evening it is hard for me. I really appreciate the lethartic nature of
metal and it is definitely a big part of me. Your tastes change. That
in a large part of why I quit Strapping Young Lad. A lot of people
don't understand that. Look at Slayer, they are still doing it in their
50's. The way that I create is different than the way Slayer does. It
is not better or worse, but in my own creative process, it is intrinsic
to my own emotional development. I never made a choice to be a
musician, it is just what I do. When life changes, you either resolve
them or you get to a point in life that shit is too loud. My creative
process reflects that. I say to a lot of people who were mourning
Strapping Young Lad that what made it a great band was it was
completely honest. There was no bullshit with it. By the time I got to
the point where I could no longer do it without hurting myself in some
bullshit martyrdom, I thought it would become a parody. What made it
such a vital and creative force was going to become a parody. My
creative output would be lost. I quit it but not until I finished the
contract. I listened to "Alien" the other day and I loved it. I am
happy with where I am now. Will that translate into becoming a big
artist, probably not. I think the one thing people do appreciate about
my music is that they know I am true to my music and continue to do so.
The Gauntlet: You mention that you kept SYL together for the contract, did you want to end it earlier?
Devin: Well, yeah. The album "City" was done the same way as
"Addicted!" and "Ki". It was me in my bedroom making demos then I got
the best people that I felt would represent the project. "City" was
very much like a solo record. It was one of those things where the
people were great to hang out with and a good live band but it ended up
snowballing. My process now is lethargic. A lot of the things I needed
to resolve at the time were resolved with "City". It took me several
years to convince myself that it was an important thing to revisit.
What I ended up discovering was the fact I was part of this cool crowd.
I had cool people around and was touring with these cool bands.
To have that was intoxicating for me. When I went back to Strapping,
that was what it took for me to connect was thing that were in a lot of
ways solved. So I needed to create drama in my life and the easiest way
was through self destruction with booze and drugs and then writing
about it. That is where that martyrdom thing began to click in. I had
to ask myself who I was doing this for. Even that concept was explored
through "Alien" and "The New Black". When I finally came to the
conclusion, I solved this for me. At that resolution, there is no
possible way I can continue. If I do, it would be a parody. The people
that supported Strapping were not the fly-by-night fans. It would not
only be a disservice to the music but to the people that get out there
at the shows with the middle fingers and the 'fuck you!' When that
started to come into my view, I realized it was time to move one and it
was time to explore the next thing in my life. I am getting older, the
body is starting to change, I lost my hair. Instead of being a parody
of something I started when I was 25, I'd rather be honest. This four
record project is in a lot of was a declaration of who I am currently
and what I am going to do in the future.
The Gauntlet: You mention the hair.
Devin: I think a lot of what ended up happening for me was the
honesty I talk about goes into interviews as well. I didn't do any
drugs or drink until I was 24. At that point your reality is set and
things are pretty much what they are. A lot of kids do acid at 12 or 15
and it becomes integrated into their emotional and spiritual growth.
But if you are already settled and then introduce something like acid
which is a whole different perception of reality, you end up reacting
to it. It is like you are on a mission to represent these metaphors
that are new and conflicting with a predisposition to reality. I did a
bunch of acid at an age that a lot of people were already over it. Then
I did interviews while I was high or after the fact and I just rambled
on endlessly. You mix that in with the genetic predisposition or a
weakness on some levels and you start gaining this reputation through
the music or interviews as being crazy. If what you do for a living
allows you to pay your bills and pay for your hydro is being a crazy
guy, then let's fine tune that. Then the hair becomes a definition of
that. Not only was the music kind of random and the interviews
incoherent but the images I was portraying made me look like an
unhinged person. When I finally started ridding the drugs from my
system, I realized that I lot of that was a misappropriated verbal
dialogue about something that I was either confused about or not very
knowledgeable about. A lot of things I said were a result of this self
inflicted paranoia. My first reaction was being embarrassed but I was
accountable for it. Everything I have done in the past, I don't regret
as it led me to be who I am. But I realized if you want people to take
you seriously as an artist then the first thing to do is get rid of the
hair. So I cut it off, but the thing that I am leading to is the
project I did with Ziltoid: On the surface it is a coffee drinking
alien puppet. A lot of people didn't get that. Interviews are important
for me to clarify that though. Ziltoid was the projection of that
attitude I wore in Strapping Young Lad; that quest for power, control
and chaos. That whole element of what I represented. What I tried to do
with Ziltoid was seperate it and objectify it with the character. After
I do these four records, I will be doing a new Ziltoid record. I kept
the hair. I have the dreads in a box and the new Ziltoid puppet will
get that hair. In a lot of ways, it is a great artistic avenue for me
to represent some things I am still very interested in but with a
little more sober head space and how it is presented. If I present it
as an exploration of concepts I am interested in, Ziltoid becomes an
awesome avenue for me to do that with.
The Gauntlet: I always had a high hair line and by the time I
hit 15, I shaved my head and people then thought I should be committed
to an insane asylum, you cut yours off for the reverse effect.
Devin: I think that for me, I wasn't self-conscious about the
hair. Honestly at that point of my life I was going bald. I looked like
an ostrich egg wearing a skirt. More than trying to hide it I tried to
accentuate it. I wanted to frame my baldness. My initial reason for
going the hair was not to look like a freak. If you beat them to the
punch to pointing out your bald spot then they have nothing to say. It
was more of a defense mechanism than anything else. But I compounded it
with the interviews and the music and everything else. I figure for me,
artistically what I want to do with my world requires me to be clear
with what my motivation is at this point. Anything that distracts the
audience or leaves it open to some interpretation, I am trying to clear
it up now.
The Gauntlet: Who coined the term 'skullet'.
Devin: Oh god, not me. Shit, definitely was not me. I actually
don't remember in all honesty. Somebody used a new word and society
started to glum onto it.