www.jackherer.com

Facebook messages from Joy Graves to Chanci Herer (Jack’s daughter)

Chanci Herer October 31 at 5:08pm ....

Jeannie, I am going to paste all the things joy wrote to me so none of it is heresay. Love you! I'll try to keep them in the right order.

love Chanci

Joy Graves

Hi Chanci! You and I have never met I don't think but I've heard so much about you over the years, I am a dear friend to your dad and in fact am his co-power of attorney, which is the reason I figured I should try to establish some sort of contact with you now. I sent also a request and short message to your sister River as well, because I know how important you girls are to your dad. I would really like to be able to talk with and hear from you, as well as your sister so I can figure the best way I can be of help to your dad. So, I will wait for a response with the hopes that we can interact sometime soon. Thanks for considering talking and helping me. I hope to hear from you soon. Take care -k-! Joy

Joy Graves

First, I wan to thank you for your willingness to add me, I appreciate the opportunity to be able to contact you in the hopes I can best help your father - this is my main prority as his co-power, and so it will Definately help. I know how important you are to your dad and also how much he values you, and so that in it's self will hopefully be able to allow me to help him.
I'm not sure if you know, but, I'd spoken with your brother Mark, a handful of times so far, but, most receint was the other night just before he went to visit you after having visited your dad - I as the one coughing in the background as you were giving Mark directions to your house (sorry about that). As you know, your dad was dagnosed with pneumona when he went into the hospital - I took it from him and so I've been fighting to get rid of it as soon as I can because I want to see him, but don't want to run the risk of getting him sick. Hopefully within a few days it will be gone, but with no immune system, I fear sitting around waiting to get rid of it before I do anything to try to help him, so at why I'm going ahead and sending you this email. I believe that Family is a Very important thing, and so, I want to make sure that I have an open door to you and your sblings, and also that I encourage you all to feel more than free to be able to contact me should any of you wish too, and in turn, as I asked Mark to relay to all of you - Anything I may be able to do to help, I'm here and wiling to do.
I am not all to sure whether or not I should try to address the specifics of things via an email, so at this time, I would like to offer you my land number - my cell phone company and I are having some issues and I'm not too sure when they'll correct their end of the problems.... I will give you it too though just so you have t for future refrence as well...... I want communications to be open.
So, as you know, your father named me as his Co-Power of Attorney, along with little Chuck. Unfortunately, Chuck is proving to be ov Very Little help when it comes to issues of your dad - he seems to have his own ideas and concepts as to what this power entails an what HE thinks your dad would want him to be doing right now with such power. I myself feel that it proritizes us protecting HIM right now, and then all which comes with him.... Chuck on the other hand believes that it's to entitle him to run around and play Jack, and to not address or deal with anything that may be needed to protect him and his interests. Needless to say, Chuck and I have had some fallings out, same too as I'm sure you've heard, I've had some issues wth your brother Mark along this way as well.
But I am NOT out to look for or have any issues or trouble with Anyone, especially any of you and Mostly with Jack.... I want to do absolutely any and everything that I can to protect Jack and his best interests as he's made known to me, the rest I'm kind of feelng thru as I go along. To my knowledge, you and I haven't met in person, though your dad has gone on to me for Years about you and has always spoke to me about your life and his praises for you and what type of woman you've become. He is Very Proud of the fact that your a teacher, and the most receint thing he was praising about you to me was that you are teaching your children Sign Language. He'd said that he wished he'd had more time because he'd have liked to have learned some sign language from you. I was with your dad when you'd called about your cell phone plug too, I hope you were able to find it and or get it returned, I know how stresful t can be to not have a way to charge your phone - in today's world, we've come to rely so much on all this technology stuff.
Anyway, I am hoping and wondering if you might be willing to speak with me on more of a direct level. We can do this by email if you perfer, but I'm the type to always think things can be easier and more directly when ya speak in person, that way we can discuss things, I can answer ANYTHING you may ask or want to ask, and too more things tend to come to mind when your actually talking to someone, hearing their voice and such. So, anyway, I am hoping that you might be willing to talk with me, and if you are, this way it can be on your time and convenience. I should be avaliable pretty much any time, unless I happen to be away from the phone n which case, you could leave me a message and or call me back. But as I say, if you perfer communicating with me thru the email - I'll take whatever I can get. I just want to make sure that I open myself to you and allow you the decision and opportunity to contact me if you ever wanted to or anything.
I just want to do the Absolute Best that I can to represent and protect your dad and to ensure that he gets to resume his life in his way once he's back on his game, and I DON'T want to do anything that could or may upset him. I am Fully confident that in time, Jack will be able to resume full control over his life and his affairs and endeavours, and like I say, that he's not pissed off at me for anything I've done or may have to do in the concept of protecting him and his best interests. I know what he's expressed in debth to me, as well as things I've head him state to others, but other than all of that, I think it's important to hear from any and or all of you kids as I attempt to move ahead, because I know there may be things that you guys know that I do not, and vise versa, and so I'm extending my hand, ear, and numbers to you, and River as well as you two are the only ones other than Mark that I have an ability to at this point. I will ask if you would pass my information along to the rest of your siblings as well and if you'd let them know I am willing and eager to hear from them to, I just don't have a direct way to extend myself to them, or I would. Also I encourage you to all talk together, and think of anything you may wish to have expressed to me, or that you may wish for me to try to do on your behalf's, and if there is anything, know and believe that I will do everything that I can to help make it happen so long as it's in your dad's best interest, which I'm sure it would be. I just feel it important to say that because ultimately, my obligations and responsibilities lye to Jack and Jack alone. However, I do believe Strongly in family, and I have Complete and total respect for your guys position as his children..... will do all I can to help and support all of you as well, and I trust that you guys would not ask me of anything that may potentially harm your dad - I am His Power of Atorney untimately.
Anyway, I am a little ill, and don't want to begin to seem as though I'm rambling or not making sence, so I'm going to go ahead and let you go, and leave the ball to your court. I do so hope that you will be willing to speak to me at some point. I do hope that it is fairly soon, but I do not want to come across as pushy or anything like that either at the same time. So, I think I've said all I can say at this point, other than, I thank you again for the oppertunity to communicate with you, and I hope that you will be willing to talk with me as time goes by with all of this. I do value and appreciate any and everything all of you may be willing to share with me and I am More than willing to share with you anything I can that I know from my end. So, until we speak again, Thank you, and take care, and - don't give up, I believe without a doubt that Jack is going to be just fine and that he's going to continue to recover until he's back at his own healm and running hs own show. So thank you again, and take care, and I hope to hear from yousometime soon! Have a great evening, and congratulations on your enguagement Chanci! Joy

Joy Graves October 26 at 5:18am Report
I guess my repsonse email didn't send. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I understand and appreciate all you had to say, and I thank you for taking the time to write me as you did. I don't want to upset you and sorry I did. And I want to let you know I have no intention of upseting or fighting with Anyone contrary to how it might haveseen - Jeannie included. I understand your upset and confusion. I will do my best to respect you and your wishes, and it's ok that your brother thinks I'm wierd - I perfer Unique, but wierds ok too I suppose. I just want to do my best to help your father and so want you to know if you want to adress me, feel free. And just real quick to answer the only question I can - I only told Jeannie what I did because she asked me to, and because your father indicated to me that she already knew.

(Comment from Jeannie: I've never met or heard of Joy before Jack's heart attack, but now she's told me repeatedly that she's known Jack for years and that he cheats on me with other women all the time. It seems like she's trying to make me mad at him when he can't speak for himself. I don't trust her to have Jack's best interests at heart.)

But I'm not out to upset her or you or anyone else - just to try to help your dad. I can't tell you why he picked me, just that we talked ALOT about it before I agreed to be named. I can totally understand your upset, so don't feel bad for it ok - it's ok. Also know, thatthe only reason I have quetions is because of what your dad said to me, and said in front of me to others, but that I'm not out to harm anyone, including Jeannie.... I'm just trying to figure out how to best help and protect your dad, and that's the bottom line. So again, I'm sorry for bothering or upsetting you, and if ever you wish to communicate with me, please feel free, and don't worry about coming across because I totally can understand. Take care! Joy

Joy Graves October 27 at 2:38pm Report
"Continued but probabily not in proper order - sorry, it says my message was "too long" so I tried to send it as 3 hopefully you can see the order I ment it to go"
As I say, they felt a list was necessary at this time, especially now that Jeannie is on the other side of the line. It is unfortnate that it has come to that, but as I say, they were explaining to him with me there that this was going to be done this way AND he was showing positive response when it was adressed to him. They said that since I could not identify persons who may be sent in to see him from these specific people named - they wanted to handle things this way. The only thing I asked them to do is to relay my number to ever-who they decide to not let in, and I did that with the hopes I could try to assess whether or not they should be allowed in.... if I don't have their names, how could I put them on the list and let them in? So far, Noone has called me asking to see him, but, should anyone call, it is my hope to be able to add them - it's just that they want to make SURE these people are coming to see JACK because of Jack and not as some sort of a risk or payback. I couldn't see to disagree with their position or concern, and so I did agree to leting them use the disgression so long as they revert those they refuse to me for my review. I hope this better explains to you why things are the way they are. I do think it is important for you to know, Jeannie was selectively choosing who could or could not see or find out about your dad since the very beginning,

(Comment from Jeannie: He was in a coma in ICU and I didn't think he needed tons of visitors then.)

and knowing that, I don't feel this situation they asked for is any different than that, other than there asking me instead of her. Know though that all of Jacks' children ARE on the list and any of you can see and or call in anytime you'd like, and I would never decide against that uless it proved to become necessary which I personally think and hope it wouldn't become an issue, so I hope this calms your concerns or upset. If YOU want certain people to be added to the list, let me know, just Please be able to assure me that they will be safe and that they will not attempt to run back to the people of concern. I am willing to trust your and your siblings judgement until I'm proven I cannot. Yes I know your father does not like to be alone, and I think the more people who can and are willing to see him, the better for him. I am in a bad situation right now and am trying to do the best I can for HIS sake as well as his protection and safety. That is why I asked them to forward people to me if they turn anyone away. I figure that if they are willing to talk to me, that in it's self will show me there intentions Are seemingly good and there shouldn't be a problem with having them added to the list of people allowed in. However, you should know that I cannot guarentee they will be added Nor if they are that the protective service people will agree they should be allowed in. But I figured that directing them to me was better then them just being turned away period, and at least this way I'll know who they are and may be able to add them though they decided to turn them away without my knowledge.
I am sorry that you say you didn't know what was going on with your father andJeannie prior to his going down. Perhaps you can do some investigating on your own and put some factual pieces together, then hopefully you will see for yourself that there is valid reasons for concern regarding her. As I told you before, Jack himself expressed fear for her, not only to me but to many others as well, and so you know, she had walked out and left him a few months before all this happened in Portland.

(Comment from Jeannie: See my 10/31/09 post at www.jackherer.com.)

She has been making many False Alligations about your father and what was going on in his life. I think you should also know and find, he was afraid of her to certain degrees, and that she had been both threatening And harrassing him consistantly before he collapsed, she has even admitted this to me herself, though too she has not admited to Everything that I've found out about that had been going on.

(Comment from Jeannie: Jack and I have been together since 1996 and were married in 1999. It’s true I've threatened to divorce him a million times, even before we were married, but I’ve never left him. He's been promising me all these years that we will get a house where we can have some privacy, but people keep asking to move in and he always lets them. This has been a problem for us.)

I Know she was though, he told me himself of several instances, and like I said too, I heard him also telling many others about her behaving in these ways toward him. I also have received a hand written letter from your father stating they had split up and that she was no longer going to be with him, and also I have a letter from another state licensed official stating that Jak himself expressed that he and Jeannie were heading for a divorce. I am willing to show you these documents as well as anything else I have or may obtain as this progresses.
Right now all I can do is assure you that your father was told as to these positions going to be put into effect, and the staff as well as myself got the impression from Him that he is in agreeance to these coarses of actions being taken. Though yes, he is not near 100% - we all feel confident he understood and his responses were in accordance to showing support for these decisions being made.

(Comment from Jeannie: I spent five hours with Jack yesterday. Joy and Eve were there and I very calmly asked him, in front of them, if he wanted me to leave and let them take over. I asked him if he wanted them to have Power of Attorney. Eve started nodding her head up and down but Jack didn't. I told him I wouldn't be angry, no matter what his decision is. He didn't answer or indicate anything. I don't think he's able to yet. They had put a clear rattle type thing in his hand that has lights in it that flash all around when you move it. As soon as I started asking him questions, Eve shook his hand around until the rattle started flashing. It was very distracting for him.)

I encourage you to go and see your father as often as you can or would like, and to call in when you can't or don't want to. I've said from the word go, I feel you all are important to him and that you should be actively involved with him and his recovery as he progresses forward. I just want to make sure he has the options and abilities To progress forward, and that paper I felt and still believe was NOT the approperiate approach in giving him that ability. As I said, I hope you concur with that, but if you don't, I'm sorry, and I hope that you can at least try to understand that to me, it was the necessary thing to do. I am saddened that it's come to lines being drawn between him and people, but that was prettymuch out of my hands - I HAVE to do what I feel is best for him, and whether people understand or agree with that or not, really cannot make a difference to me, it's my position and I believe I did the right thing for me to have done, and would decide that again given what I have to work with and go off.
I cannot encourage you enough to find the facts for yourself, and I hope that when you DO, you will begin to understand where I'm coming from and that I am making the right decision. But I hope you understand I am doing Anything I do with only your fahters best interest at heart. I have nor want anything to gain other than his recovery and for him to feel safe and happy with His life and what HE wants period. I do Not agree to that paper and so I have had it changed. I do NOT agree that he should be forced out of his house if that's where HE wants to live, and I do Not feel it's right to have his stuff taken from him so that he is forced to be somewhere he Does Not want to be. He had No Intent or desire to live anywhere else but Lake and so ....Lake.... is my goal for him to be able to return.... until or unless He decides different.
You say you were unaware of what was going on with him before he went down in ....Portland..... Things were being Taken from his house Against his wishes BEFORE he even got to Oregon - he expressed this and his upset to me as soon as I cought up with him in Portland, and most Everything of his has been taken since.

(Comment from Jeannie: I was moving our things to the house in Santa Rosa because Jack had agreed to move there after he got back from Europe).

He also was being threatened and harassed, I did witness some of this going on myself and like I said, Jack TOLD me this as well while he was there. There are MANY people who know of this other than me - which is why I am Encouraging you to investigate this for yourself. That way you will not feel that "a Stranger" is concluding this but is Confirming it. Then hopefully you will realize my reasons and will find yourself on my side - because I am on Jack's side period. I hope this sufficiently answers your questions and concerns Without appearing that I am acting in "desperation" by trying to explain it to you. I am sorry that this email too is "too long", but I want to make sure I answer you to the best of my abilities. The bottom line, there are many things you Will find out should you Look for the answers which again I Encourage you to do, especially if you are concerned and want to better understand what was going on in his life and why these decisions are being made. The only thing I am going to Suggest to you is that you Look for the truth from Many people and that you do not only elect to believe things from Certain people, especially people such as Jeannie who are more apt to have you believe Their sides rather than the facts of the matter. As I said, Jeannie HAS Admitted to many things being true, but also that she has been denyng other things that have proven to be True as well.
I know you have asked me not to "throw her reputation under a bus" and so I am not going to address many of the things that I feel do discredit her, and again I encourage you to seek out the TRUTH for yourself, that way as these things become known to you, it will not be coming from Me. I understand that you do not know nor fully trust me or Anything I may have to say, and so again, I cannot stress to you that things are there for the finding, and I hope you are willing to put in some time on your own to find them out. I will say however, that when you do start to learn of these things, I believe that you will find I am being as Honest with you as I can be, and that I am Not the One you need to be worrying about or questioning. I can try to reassure you until the cows come home, but the bottom line is - I AM doing what seems best and in the best interest of Jack and him alone. I know things Will get seemingly worse before they get better, but I'm in this for Jack and for the long hall. Further actions for Jack will have to take place, some which you may not understand nor agree with, but ultimately the proof will be in the pudding when everything is said and done, and I believe in the end you will come to trust me, if not at least be able to see the reasoning behind it.

Joy Graves October 27 at 3:13pm Report
Dear Chanci - First I want to assure you that I am NOT trying to hinder your father or his care at all, nor am I eager to pick and choosewho can or cannot see him. Yes there was a list created, but it was per the request of the facility he's at, not because I wanted to "play God" with your father, and Definately not to try to keep people from him. I agree that the more people who visit with him, the better, and I hope that Anyone who wants to visit Jack can be allowed to do so. That is why I asked them to forward my number to anyone They dis-allow to see him, I am hoping that I can help people get in, but without their names, it would be kind of hard to do, as I don't know who is trying to see them until they go in. And, if there not allowed in, at least this way it's not a done deal. The facility called in "protective Services" - whatever this is or who they are, but obviously they felt it was necessary or I assume they wouldn't have made the decision to do it.
The reason I idenified myself to them as POA is simple - there was a pink paper in the front if his chart stating that they were NOT to attempt CPR or other "saving measures" should they become something necessary to save his life. I was told by the staff that Jeannie decided for them to Not Try to save him, and that the paper was created when she had him in the hospital in ....Springfield.... when he was admitted because of the blood sugar issues.

(Comment from Jeannie: See my 10/31/09 post at www.jackherer.com.)

I as his POA could NOT in good conscious allow them to take that position, and they said in order to change it at my request, that I would have to assume full authority as his overseer. Quite frankly, it SHOCKED me that she would have told them to take that position, especially regarding the CPR because she seemed upset by the fact that he hadn't received CPR fast enough when he initially went down. But none-the-less, your dad chose ME to protect him nd his options regarding his care and I want it clear that they are to do whatever is demed necessary to ensure he has the ability to Live. CPR has saved his life not just during this, but also in ....Harrisburg.... when Mark jumped in and saved him 9 years ago - I do Not see why it should not be an option now if need be. Even then, it's not a guarentee he will pull thru, but at least it's an effort to try to save him. I don't Think it will come to that, but, if it does, I think it should be tried and hopefully would make the difference and sav his life. I HOPE you would agree with that - and that's the only reason I stood up and took the position I did. I DO have a copy of that if ever you'd like to see it for yourself, as far as I know they took it out of his chart and threw it away, but I DID get a copy first, so I'd have it as proof in case someone like you would want to see it for your ownself. I hope you'd agree, but if you don't I'm sorry, it was my call and I made it. I'm sorry it's created This situation, but I do feel it was the right thing for me to do and I'd make the same dcision again if I had to if it protects Jack.... Jack is what matters right now period. From wht you'd said, I think you would agree. Him being alive and allowed to get better is what I think we ALL want, even Jeannie, but the paper raised question to me as far as her position and intent, and given what he'd expressed about fearing what she might to to stop him, plus all the other pieces becoming known... I feel I did what I had to do and I feel it was the right decision to make.
I listed a few people I felt were a risk to your dads safety and that is all I specified I didn't think should be allowed in. They are using their disgression with the rest. The only thing I thought to ask was for them to forward anyone They deny in to me so I could try to figure out and let in those they may feel are a risk but may not actually be. Jeannie Was put on the list of non allowance. It was hard to decide that - I'd rather Jack made that decision, but he was talked to by them about it repetatively and like I say, He seemed to be in agreeance that she not be allowed in by His responses when it was explained to him that it was going to be this way. I do agree with there assessment of his responses, and he did Specifically tell me when I asked if he wanted her in there 'no-no-no-no'. He also gave body language they and I both felt was consistent to his response of no, that he did Not want her there. It was hard, and so they spent about 20 minutes trying to assure his response before it became final. And like I say, They were initiating trying to get his answer. I feel confident he was understanding and that it was his decision to not have her there. I was more concerned regarding Beau - I do NOT feel he was pleasing to Jack being there. Beau has been a long time friend of mine as well, and I know he and I will never probabily be friends again after this, which is sad, but, it's not about him and I - this is about Jack and what's best for him, and I stand by that decision. Jeannie is unfortunate, but seemingly necessary, given that paper plus other factors as well.

Joy Graves October 27 at 4:04pm Report
Chanci, I have been as decient a I can be with you thus far, though it's getting hard when you continue to make small attacks toward me and tend to mis-state the Facts. Your father did NOT leave Jeannie, she left him and I have sufficient proof if that, not even counting that Jack AND Jeannie have admitted that she is the one who left him. As far as your mother and other family members being able to go see him, I have said give me the names and I will ensure they can see him. However, pertaining to Jeannie, I an NOT going to change the position, she will NOT be allowed to see him asnd as I've said there are MANY factors leading me to that conclusion, including him out-right ssaying he does NOT want her there. I am sorry that this will upset you but it is the bottom line at this point.
My only real actions have been to correct the stand-point on his option of CPR and ever what they may need to do to save Jack's life, so again, I do not know what your trying to refrence to. I told you that the place anted a list and I am trying to get people in who can be trusted t not jeporidize nor endager him and his well being. They want me to start setting up another place for him and I'm working at that, but for right now, he is in a safe and capaeable place, even if they won't allow the hemp, but yes, if I can find a place that will allow hemp I DEFINATELY will push to get him there.
I wish that you could put down your Atttitude and just wait to see that the things I am going to be doing will be for Jack's best interest and that alone will prove it's self to be the case. I have been in authority for Less than 2 hours and your already making it sound as if I've been involved in his decisions the whole time.
I HAVE been at his side more than you seem to know. I had pneuminia and was not going to put him at risk of getting it just so you would see that I was there, but I have been there, even with masks to ensure he does not get sick from me. You can confirm thiswith the fcility if you like but don't you dare come off saying I haven't been there when I have. Jeannie would NOT let me and many others be there initially but as soon as I was authorized I was right there and have been with him for hours at atime Each time I've been there. I am not going to be there knowing I'm sick and could get him sick, so for the times I was not there that alone was the reason I wasn't, but I have been there and will conitune to be. Perhaps if YOU were there then you would have seen me there and maybe we even could have met and talked. You are right up the street from him, I on the other hand have to travel distance to get there - but I have been there.
I think the main focus should be on yourdad, and perhaps you should be trusting HIS judgement. Perhaps this is why he chose me and not you, and because you don't seem to know the TRUTH as to what was going on with his life. I am willing to work with you but I do Not need to be subjected to disrespect so I hope that instead of you wanting me to change My position that you shold be changing your attitude and trying to find out the truth for your ownself, not jumping to conclusions based on half-truths. I heard them fight onthe very ay he went down and because of her threts to him he hung up on her. Perhaps that didn't help his heart that day either. He said he was done dealing with Jeannie and that he felt it was over period and to go ahead and file the divorce if that's what she wanted to do. I am not the one that was upsetting him that day, and Eve wasn't even there, so you should leave her out of this, it has nothing to do with it or Jack, Jack is his own man not some child that will take orders or threats. Jack reported that Jeannie moved out and left him, I don't know where you get the impression he left her. He was initailly saddened but given her abusive behaviors he quickly seeem accepting of her being gone. And as I say, many other people can confirm this fact to you, it's just whether you are going to take the time and make the effort to confirm it yourself. That's up to you, but is regardless because I Know the turth as do many others and that is in fact the truth. Jeannie went from your dad to living with 2 other men, he stayed in the house they lived in, she left him NOT him levaing her, she could have gone back and maybe he would have accepted that but the only time she went back was to fight and steal his stuff, so the proof is in the pudding, whether you like it or not.

(Comment from Jeannie: I wasn't stealing his stuff, I was moving our stuff to our new place in a huge house with roommates who were hardly ever there. See my 10/31/09 post at www.jackherer.com.)

So, give me your mothers name and the other relaitves you want in there and I will try my best to see that they an go in, otherwise, things stand as they are for now because it IS in Jacks best interest whether you agree with it or not, but please stop coming across at me because I don't need or deserve Your attitude. Jack could have put your name on it too but obviously he chose not to, that is between you nand him, but since he named me, I have the right to protect him and I will as HE trusts me whether you do or not, it doesn't matter, it's the way it is because he says so. So, it's up to you, give me there names and I will add them, but as far as Jeannie - my position stands with the facilty and that's the bottom line period. No one has called asking to see him, so other than you telling me they want to, how am I spposed to know. I will add them because I think it would be good for Jack. I'm not your enemy and hope you don't choose it to end that way between us. I know you love your dad so maybe you should go see him yourself and see if he's willing to talk to you, he has no problem talking to me though he can't talk well - he Is talking though so hopefully he will be inclined to speak to you or them, but it's HIS choice not mine, I have no magic wand and am not gagging him. or stopping him from speaking - I WANT him to speak to Everyone, but like I say, it's his call. Take care, Joy

Joy Graves October 27 at 11:32pm Report
Beau is - I don't know if "threat" is the right word per se, he's just been being a real Prick, even to Jack, every time I've seen him there since Emmanuel.

(Comment from Jeannie: Jack's long-time friend, Beau, was not being mean to Jack but he's been extremely disappointed in Joy and did tell her so.)

I do know about them calling you guys all in to say good-bye that night/early morning wee hours. He'd "crashed" and they did think that was his end. But sweetie, that's Not when this paper was filled out, the date on it shows October 15th 2009. Maybe that's when you were all discussing it, but I promace you the date shows this month, not then. And I'm not saying Jeannie was "wanting him dead" by doing it. Why she did it doesn't even matter other than it's confusing to me, what bothers me is that it was answered that way at all period. It would have maybe made a littl moresence if it was around that crash, but it wasn't. And I'm not saying that ALL of you wouldn't have had that right to the opinion, just please try to understand that as a POA it wouldn't sit well with me as being a direction at all period at any time, but especially so in October because he HAS been improving and to me it says "so what if he's improving, don't make the effort" and to me that's just plain unacceptable for a position, Especially since he has improved so much since Sept. Things were scary most of Sept. but damn, he's goten So much Better since the End of Sept. and definately during Oct. .... it just flat didn't sit well with me and I'm the type that can't stand down when something feels so wrong. I HAD to step up... if I didn't what kind of protector or POA would I be. That's what POA is and means - protector. When I was suffering from heat stroke one year, your dad took care of and protected me.... how could I not return the favor.

Joy Graves October 27 at 11:52pm Report
Your dad has "thrush" in his mouth right now. And his throat isn't opening and closing right, there's a dely they tell me, which makes anything potentially dangerous, ven water. He could "asperate", and water could actually cause him to get pneumonia, especially if his throat isn't functioning right. They're treating the thrush and feel he should be over it real soon. Thrush is like a bacterial type of an infection. I didn't see the danger of a little water, hell he hasn't been allowed Any liquid in is mouth for over a month. I personally think that's why he's indicating soreness with his mouth, I think it's his throat because they've kept it so dry for so long. I'm told "cranberry juice" on the sponge may be an option, I plan on asking them about that tomorrow, but they'll probabily want to wait on everything until the Thrush is gone, just to play it safe. Elvie was asked by the staff to not put water into his mouth and she flat defied them right in front of them as soon as they'd asked her to stop. She shoulda at least waited until they walked away if she was going to try, not that she should have.... she should have at Least asked them why they didn't want her to, I'm sure they woulda told her about the thrush and the throat issue and then maybe they wouldn't have made the call to put her out, butt the attitude and then the way she did it Immediately when they asked her not too - she brought being put out on herself. I am Sorry that it happened, but damn, she was asking for it, know what I'm saying, she shoulda been corgile about it with them, and like I say, she coulda asked "why", but, she did it her way and that's what it got her. They have Reasons forseting boundries, and it's not for their amusement, it's for Jack's safety, and being in the business they are, they know a little more than most of us.

Joy Graves October 28 at 12:14am Report
And I don'treally have issue with Jeannie - I dont know her well enough to declare I do. I just know, like you say, there relationship isn't the healthiest, and I've found justifiable reason for concerns. I do appreciate that she's willing to help so much to care for him, but that alone doesn't justify letting her just because she's willing. I've told you - they went over it with him for a long time, and he indicated pretty well that he Doesn't want her there, and he Did outright say it to me there, not just before he wen down, but actually there. I'd Hope he will express that to you as well so you'd know yourself and not just have to take our word for it. What I can say, is Mark saw the looks he'd get when she'd go in and out of the room while he was there, and he Did indicate to me that he felt your dad didn't really seem to want her there even then. I don't know if he'd tell You that - I'd hope that he would because he did express it to me that night I saw him last before he went to your house, and if he Didn't feel that way, then I'd wish he wouldn't have expressed it to me. Many people expressed to me they got that impression with his facial gesters toward her.

(Comment from Jeannie: One of the nurses at Sacred Heart Hospital told me that happens a lot with people in the hospital. She used to work in pediatrics and said the children would often be angry with their parents because they weren't feeling well. They lash out at the ones they love because the ones they love are the ones who are there. I’ve been at the hospitals and nursing homes every day since this happened until I left for three days last weekend to get our cat, computer and some clothes.)

But since then, he's said it "no no no no" when he was asked Specifically, and he also pretty clearly indicated it with his body language as well, so much so that even the staff felt he was indicating - he doesn't want her there. Other than hurting her feelings, what's the harm - really, her being away. And if he IS getting better, isn't that the bottom line of what we ALL want for him, even Jeannie. I think the best thing we can do is leave things as they are for the time being, and just SEE how he does. What if he was scared to show improvement while she was around? Why suddenly is he blowing their minds with his improvement now that she's gone?

(Comment from Jeannie: I was gone three days. I've seen him three times since then and he's the same as when I left.)

I wish she'd put his stuff back in his house where it belongs, there's no reason for it to be in her storage. If he went home tomorrow, how would he feel to find ALL his stuff gone? Why was she taking his stuff before he even collapsed if they Were getting along? I mean, there's alot of questionable questions Chanci, wouldn't you agree - she took his cups when he was driving up here, what's up with that?? If she Really is so concerned with Jack, I feel she should put all his stuff back do he doesn't get upset, period, but instead she goes to get "HER CAT, it's not Jacks' cat she said - it's hers", why didn't she take the cat and leave his cups alone?

(I didn't say Mousie isn't Jack's cat, too. Joy was talking about moving Mousie to a neighbor's house and I told her no one better move her because she's my cat and I'm going to bring her here to Eugene)....

He doesn't ant to live in Santa Rosa, OR Carson City, he wants to live at Lake I want to see him happy, what about her? Actions speak alot louder than words.

(I know Jack likes Lake County and that's why I first found the house in Lower Lake, which is in Lake County. See my 10/31/09 post at www.jackherer.com.)

He said she was , never mind. I just don't want him subjected to BS right now, not until he's healed enough that HE can choose to subject himself to it, then it's on him, but while he's down, it's on me, and I want him stress free and getting better, does that make me a bitch? I have nothing against her directly, so long as she let's Jack be until HE is better, that's all I'm asking, and I dont feel it's an unreasonable request. I've already lost a friend in Beau over it, and I'm going thru hell ta boot. Just please agree to me giving your dad some time to heal. Then we'll go from there.... let me get him to at Least 65%, I don't think it will be long at all, especially looking at his progress over these last few days. I promace I'm not going to do anything to hurt him.. I Promace! I care for Jack too.

Joy Graves

Chanci Herer October 31 at 5:13pm ....

So please - try to find things out for yourself, don't just consider what I or any One person may have to say - YOU talk to people and find the truth for your own-self, and again, know, that I am here and will answer to you should you elect to call on me for answers or explinations. But also know and understand, I Will do what seems right when it comes to your father and his best interests, and also try to believe that I am NOT jumping into anything without alot of thought, contimplation and investigations of my own. I take my responsibilities and obligations to your father VERY SERIOUSLY, and I hope that in time you will find your own trth and will come to trust if not at least understand the reasons and decisions I do decide to take. I think that is about all I can really say, especially without trying to influence you. It is NOT my job to convince you of anything Chanci, nor am I going to try unless you ask me to. I cannot say enough - investigate things for Yourself. Then hopefully as things become known and clear for you, you will come to trust my judgements and decisions easier. I hope this email sufficies for what you inquired from me, and I hope you do put effort into finding the TRUTH for your own peace of mind. And I HOPE you ask as many people as you can for the information they can provide, and take it for whatever it may be. I HOPE that you do not want to avoid what you call the "outside" world, because as you yourself say, your dad seemed to confide and trust in these people more than he seemingly "trusted" to go into it with his kids. That is sad to hear, and I'm sorry if that is really how it was, but I believe you if you say that's how it feels to you. And the only reason I "" those words is because those are the words YOU stated to me... so I am quoting you when I say them. If it really was that way, I'm sorry, and I will tell your dad that he should put more faith into his kids and that I think he should share more of himself and his life with all of you.Of coarse, Jack is Jack, and whether or not it will make a difference to him, I don't know, but I will try to get it thru to him as I feel you guys deserve more of him for yourselves and should be made to feel by him that you are important - because you are - your his Family.
Anyway, I hope I answered and explained to you to your satisfaction, and again, please DO feel free to communicate with me as you feel the need to do so. Until if I ever hear from you again, be well and take care. Joy

Joy Graves October 27 at 10:53pm Report
I appreciate your answering me back and for being decient to me Chanci, I really do, I've been worrying I came across to harsh and I don't want to push you. I know without a doubt that you do love your dad, and as I said initially, I KNOW he loves you too. You are definately a Herer, and I know I'm in for alot of that Herer attitude and stubborness, and that's ok, I just don't want you thinking I'm Trying to be a "bad guy" because honestly I'm not. I will Definately add the names to the list First thing. And I DO value Everything you have to say, because I know you care for him. And I have tried putting myself in your position. I was the closest person in my fathers life, and I'd probabily be taking it far worse than you if I was in your position. My father couldn't STAND his son, and I think to myself even if it were him trying to assume authority over our dad I woulda gone NUTS. I know to you, I am a stranger, and if a stranger came in on my dad I'd probabily take it alot worse than you are. I say about my brother because I'd rather handled a stranger than him if it were my dad. I just want you to understand that I am trying to understand and respect your position in this, and I'm sorry I got a little harsh with you in that last email. I WANT you involved... I want yto hear what ALL you have to say and I want you to feel you Can talk to me, I just don't want to have harshness with You or Any of your siblings. I just want to help your dad - that's all..... I do think of him as my own dad. My dad was jealous of my relationship with your dad, which was silly and unecessary. My dad even went with me to see your dad in the VA 9 years ago, I don't know if I told you that or not. My dad was Pissy about it, but he stayed outside and he did ake me so I knew how to get there and around, it's a big place up there.
YES your dad IS talking, you can ask the nurses. He's not 100% with it, but hey, so long as he's making some sort of sence, it's a Great start! And his words do seem like they fit to what an accurate response would be fitting, it's not like he says things in an off fitting way. I am Really Happy he's talking, I just wish he'd be willing to talk more, but in time, I know he will. He's the type of dinasaur that ya can't keep quiet for long - I'm counting on that. I was told by Mark that you were the first one to hear him talk, he said that when you'd went to see him, Jack locked onto you with his eyes and that you cried and that Jack then sat up and said "God-damnit" and then you both cried together. I thought it was Beautiful, but now I'm wondering because you say you didn't know he could talk.
Your dad had some theropy today. They tell me he spoke directly to them - he said "oh boy oh boy oh boy". This IS one of his phrases. Don't feel bad if he hadn't talked to you, he hadn't been talking to them either, which is why they wanted to "study" he and I and that's when they finally did hear him talk, but he HAD been talking before that - to me anyway.

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Letter from Eve to Jack:

Joy and Chuck’s Medical Power of Attorney:

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