Just thought I'd take a minute to post my thoughts regarding voting, what it is and what it is not.

Voting is NOT me trying to speak for you, speak against you, nor does my voting have anything to do with you.  My votes represent what *I* feel is important or not important, how *I* desire myself and my family to be represented and how *I* think the city, county, state or country would be best served -- as we all know that sometimes people don't have a clue as to what's really best for them (as evidenced by the scores of thousands of people who still want to touch the proverbial stove even though they've been told "Don't touch that, it's hot!!").

Voting is intended as a medium to voice *YOUR* own opinions, beliefs, and desires for your city/county/state/country.  It is your opportunity to make your voice heard -- the reason why so many people use that famous line "If you didn't vote, don't complain!".

I don't necessarily blame crooked politicians for voting themselves obscene pay raises even in the midst of economic turmoil amongst their constituents: crooked people do crooked things.

I don't necessarily blame homosexual people for wanting California Prop. 8 to fall flat on it's face: homosexual people are going to want what they claim to be homosexually-beneficial things.

I don't necessarily blame sex offenders for voting against measures that would make their lives more and more restricted: those convicted of sexual offenses likely feel as though they've "paid the price" already and don't want to be continually punished for their actions.

That all being said, even though I understand where each group (and many others) are coming from and why they're doing what they're doing, that does not mean that I have to agree with them, or sympathize with them, or change my vote to be considerate to them.

**My vote is supposed to be used either for measures and candidates I agree with or against measures and candidates I disagree with, just as your votes are supposed to be used for or against the things you're for or against.**

If you're personally against Prop. 8, and think it's going to affect you personally negatively, vote against it.  If you're personally for Prop. 8, and think it's going to affect you positively, vote for it.

**BUT** if you're swaying your vote because you think "well other people _____", then you're making a mistake, because other people are already going to be voting for what they think and want -- you changing your vote for their benefit is in effect giving them a double-vote.  If you're giving you vote for someone else, are they in turn giving their vote for you?  If not, then basically you're giving them double representation while you yourself are receiving no representation, and that defeats the whole purpose of the system.

I don't care to get into any more debates about the various points and counter-points to each of the issues and candidates, because at this point in time people have already got their emotions behind one thing or another, and more debating is only going to prove to become more divisive.  What I *DO* care about though is that people are not giving away their votes either because: a) they think the measure or candidate is going one particular way anyways, so they might as well "vote for the winner"; b) they want to make sure that so-and-so has their views adequately represented; or c) they don't want to "impose" their own beliefs on others.

**You're not voting for other people!!  You're voting for YOU!!**

If people could just remember that, we'd get a lot more accurate representation in the voting system, and we'd eliminate ahead of time the kind of slanted polling that has largely become the norm.  If people would simply look at voting in it's real context -- the means by which an individual is to make their own beliefs and opinions known to the government -- then voting would be truly an accurate representation of what "the people" genuinely believe and desire for themselves and their country.

Hope this helps clarify things a bit. :)

~Jason†

Imagine Barack Obama as President...
Category: News and Politics

We are a few weeks from the elections and as of today, the poll numbers indicate we have our work cut out for us. Americans are angry. VERY ANGRY. The recent bailout controversy has only stirred the seething rage that is bubbling up among taxpayers.

The sad thing about voter anger is that it's misdirected. While there is plenty of blame and fault to go around for both parties, there really is hard evidence that John McCain tried in vain to get attention focused on the totally absurd lending practices of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that are at the heart of the meltdown. Barack Obama is the second highest recipient of political cash from the big bosses of these entities, and one of his economic advisors Franklin Raines took over $90 million in bonuses from Fannie Mae. That's right---$90 MILLION. Do you really think that Barack Obama will lead "reform" of a system that his advisors have helped create?

His radical views on when life begins and his priority of protecting abortion rights over the right to life for the unborn are beyond most of even the most extreme leftists. His work with ACORN, a radical political organization is especially noteworthy in light of the fact that ACORN received over $760 million in "fees" from banks to help push people into "N.I.N.J.A. loans." (These are loans made to people with No Income; No Job; and No Assets, thus NINJA loans.)

Imagine Obama as President and Democrats holding majorities in the House and with a possible 60 vote margin Senate.

Goodbye, 2nd amendment rights.

Goodbye, protection for the unborn.

Goodbye, tax breaks.

Goodbye, diligence against state sponsored terrorism from rogue governments like Iran, North Korea, and others.

Goodbye, parental rights as a fundamental right to not be supplanted by the government.

Goodbye, holding traditional marriage as one man, one woman for life.

I'm not ready to accept that.

I want you to join me in the final days to push for Republican candidates, starting with John McCain and Sarah Palin, down to those running for the state legislature to stand for something. Stand for life, for marriage, for the Fair Tax, for our 2nd amendment rights, Fight for the pre-eminent role of mothers and fathers in raising their children, for lower taxes, for controls on government spending, and Demand an end to the disgusting corruption of Washington that led to this massive economic meltdown.

Email or call your friends and family. Share with them what is at stake. Make a contribution to a favorite candidate or support my PAC with a contribution. Volunteer locally.

The stakes are real. The threat to our families growing.

Fighting to the end,

Mike Huckabee

You can go straight to the Calvary Chapel Chino Hills online media center to watch the video [here].

Enjoy!  And please leave a comment here letting me know what you think!!

j†

...and likely, you already know what I'm talking about.  And if this voting day mirrors every one preceding it, what is legislated in California will have similar ramifications through many of the other states in the US.

* † *NOTE: This thread is intended to bring awareness to an issue on an upcoming voting issue, NOT to try and alienate anyone of any particular persuasion.* † *

Of course, the topic is Proposition 8.  I find the numbering of the proposition especially disheartening, because the number 8 (Biblically speaking) is the number of "New Beginnings"...the number that represents the day Jesus rose from the grace conquering death and sin once and for all.  The same conquering of death and din that many former homosexuals have found and put into practice in their own lives since coming to Christ.

Now, God knows (as do those who have been part of this fellowship awhile) that we've all discussed the homosexuality question many, MANY times, usually with predictable results, and I don't really intend to start another discussion about the topic this time (though one might start up about it anyways).  However, the people of California voted back in 2000, expressing their will that marriage remain defined as between a man and a woman.  What happened, then?  Some judges in the Bay area of California decided, "We don't like that decision the people made...let's make our own."  And now, rather than voting (as we did in 2000) from the position of keeping what already IS in place the norm, we have to vote from the position of putting BACK in place what the people have already decided (and the activist judges overturned) as the norm.

Regardless of the big-dollar propaganda machine that fuels the "No ..ment, the effects of this proposition are not simply "whether two people who love each other can marry each other, regardless of gender"...the real effects -- the long-lasting effects, the damaging effects, the ones they don't want you to think about -- surround the children, those little sponges who absorb information like a sponge, the ones who parents largely think are "too young" to discuss sexual issues with, but whom the "prhomo" (pronounced with a silent H; as I heard one of the pro-homosexual activists in my area refer to himself and his cause) activists have targeted in schools, as young as 4 and 5 years old.  Don't believe me?  Shame on you! :D Just kidding...but you should know I've seen proof.

This is a video clip from Massachusetts, the only state besides California that is currently allowing homosexual marriage: (if you didn't know we in California were now allowing homosexual marriage, you must have missed the news blitz about it back in early summer, which could be understandable due to the overwhelming Presidential election coverage...they introduced the bill and passed it into law at that time intentionally (by their own admission) because coverage would be relatively light due to the "more important" issue of the election)

..

Youngin's, kindergarteners, being actively taught that the homosexual lifestyle and homosexual marriage is just as normal as heterosexual marriage -- which even the kids themselves know isn't true (because they've never seen such a thing) and are only getting confused by (another goal that those who promoted the bill that became law were going for, because "confused" kids are easiest to coach into being future homosexual lifestylers and activists, again by their own admission).  Regardless of how it will affect me personally -- and every other minister of the Gospel in the state -- I sure don't want this heretical teaching sucking our kids into confusion (and since God is NOT the author of confusion, you should recognize where this issue is really coming from) and then into who-knows-what kind of un-Biblical behavior choices.

Another more recent development in the propaganda machine's promotion attempts cycle around calling their cause "just like the civil rights movement of the 60's"....my own anger sparked by that statement sometimes prevents me from coming up with appropriate words to respond with, but I'm sure since I'm a white guy, it doesn't come anywhere near the anger it must generate in those who were the ones fighting for civil rights at that time.  Don't believe me again? :D This time you should've known better...the following clip shows people (who are much better at speaking despite their personal offense than I am) giving their two cents at the homosexual claim of being "another civil right":

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So what are we to do?  In all honesty, I have wondered whether this vote would make a difference, whether the activist judges would just overturn the people's voice again.  But then God reminds me, it's not what others do against Him and His ways that I'm responsible for, it's my own actions for Him and His ways that I'm responsible for.  So what to do then?  The "Pray, Vote, and Pray some more" tagline seems to fit here very appropriately, as we need His guidance to vote how we believe Scripture says we should, then vote accordingly, and pray again that others struggling with how to vote would receive the wisdom from God they need to vote wisely.  The following clip mentions an event in San Diego the Saturday before the vote...if you're anywhere within 100 miles or so you should consider attending:

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"Oh, but I don't want to vote...politics has gotten ridiculous nowadays and it doesn't matter if I vote anyways!"  This may sound something like what some of you have going through your minds after me bringing up the vote.  But consider this:  if you believe position A is what you believe is right, and you and 9 other people vote in support of position A, while 9 people in support of position B vote for what they want, position A is enacted and the people benefit from your vote that put it over the top.  On the other side, if you believe it's right but DON'T vote for it, that's just one vote less that the position B folks have to overcome to impose what you don't think is right (but didn't vote for) on you, which will probably just frustrate you farther or push you more away from voting in the future.

The only way to preserve what you believe is right is to vote for it!  As the oft-quoted saying goes, "All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to stand aside and do nothing."  That is very much the case here.  Did you know that it has been estimated that as many as 23% more people in 2000 agreed with the "one man and one woman" proposition, but didn't vote?  In that election, it didn't matter as much since the measure still had a majority, but don't you think if the final vote had come out with 84% in favor instead of 61%, that perhaps the judges would have thought twice about provoking that huge of a majority?

Or worse, what if another 23% think it's right but don't vote this time, and the measure falls short, leading to so many more children being effectively recruited into confusion and God-rejecting behavior?  how would you feel THEN?

Many people have said "I'm too busy" or "I'd lose an hour's pay from work if I went and voted", things that sound valid superficially, but in the long run are far less important than seeing the right things voted on and supported.  I'd gladly pedal my outta shape behind to work for a week to make up the gas money lost from missing an hour or two of work in exchange for knowing that my kids, my neighbors' kids, my fellow Christians' (as well as non-Christians'!) kids will not be "fed the lie" as early as Kindergarten, where they should be learning how to do math and write instead of being taught that Joey and Johnny can fall in love and get married.  To me, it's more than worth it.  But some of you still think it's not worth the cost.  Watch this next (last, I promise) clip, and ask yourself the question, "Do I have more to lose than these people?

..

I know this has been a long post, but it's a very important issue that is somewhat being hidden by the ever-developing Presidential updates and economic woe-stories.  Lord, is it important.  Please don't fall into the "Well I believe that's how it should be, but I don't want to impose that on my neighbor" trap...you're not responsible to vote for what your neighbor wants, if he or she wants it bad enough (and in the case of this topic, that's pretty much a given), they're going to vote for it themselves and impose it back on you!

It would take a whole other post to update you on how much "hate crime" Christians have been charged and convicted of because they spoke out loud things that the Bible says plainly regarding homosexuality...so even if you don't really care about the future and well-being of yourself and your children, what about your freedom to worship as you have chosen? how important to you is that?  Because if history is any teacher, and if Proposition 8 is defeated (because WE didn't vote yes on it), we're not too far down the road from MUCH worse loss of liberties.

You think the "Patriot Act" took a lot of liberty away?  If the "Gay Marriage Act" goes into effect (by us not voting YES on 8), it'll put the Patriot Act to shame in regards to how many liberties it strips away...I pray we WON'T have to "wait and see"...

In His service, and yours,
jason†

The Lord tapped on my shoulder a few months back about something, and I wanted to write about it.  Things happen (as you all know), and I'm sure the enemy was throwing some of those things in my way to keep me from sharing what I was thinking about, and for the last couple months all those distractions accomplished what they were sent to do: distract me. :)

Then today, beloved Mike posted a blog that reminded me about it (since they're about the same basic topic, though with a bit different substance), so here I am to present my thoughts to you for (hopefully) your edification and encouragement.

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So a couple months ago, some circumstances arose that really led me into a bit of an emotional state...circumstances that seemed (to me at least) to cause some of my own family members to think of me as some sort of dishonest, no-integrity people-user -- basically the complete opposite of how I approach ANYone, let alone family! -- and on the trip home after visiting one of them trying to "clear things up" I just sat in the back seat, mostly silent, with hot tears coming from my eyes.

You probably know what kind of tears I'm talking about.  They're the "hot tears" pouring forth out of a mixture of anger and sadness, kind of like a mixture between "the neighbor just ran over your dog" and "your wife just left you for your business partner".  Tears that mix those things with feelings of betrayal and the completely offensive thought that someone would assume you'd intentionally do thus-and-so to them.  If you've never experienced them, I pray you'll never have to, especially not from something that happened within your own family.

So anyways, I'm sitting in the backseat mulling this stuff over (and we all know how productive that usually is), so realizing the futility I tried to think about  something else.

At the time my wife had just started a new job (well similar job, different company) and the discussion between us had intensified concerning getting the ball rolling in the arena of adopting a child, so thoughts about that mixed with thoughts regarding finances and jobs and schedules and all sorts of things began swirling in my head, until finally out popped the question (in my head):

"Lord, how come you're not showing me any open doors right now?"

Before you think me arrogant to ask such a thing, keep in mind that up to that point I had been "doing the right stuff" that us Christians (carnally, I should add) feel we "have to" do to keep God happy enough with us that He'll keep us informed of all the things we think we need to know.  I had been in prayer constantly regarding whether He wanted me to move on in certain areas, get more planted in others, etc., and I really felt as though I had been asking and asking and He was basically ignoring me.

So I did what we all "naturally" do (that is, in our human nature): we throw a mental temper tantrum and start pointing fingers at Him.

So yeah, great....now instead of continuing in "the good things" (and thus retaining some semblance of spiritual maturity), I'm watching myself im my mind having this 3-year-old's attempt at getting his own way.

And then the Lord totally blessed my socks off:  He said "Let Me show you something."

So in my mind, I asked the Lord to open whatever door He wanted me to walk through, and then I was looking through my own eyes at the door of a building, and it was closed.  So I asked Him again, "Lord, can you open the door for me?", to which He replied, "I already did".  Looking at the still-closed door in front of me, I was a bit perplexed, so I walked over to the door and tried to push it open -- futile, it was latched -- and then I tried the knob -- no luck there either, it was locked.

So then, in the wacko emotional state that I was in, I basically used the "nice and fluffy" way of calling Him a liar, and He said "You know I would never lie to you."  Remembering that this of course was true, I watched myself use all my tremendous problem-solving skills, concentrating all my mental acumen towards trying to figure out how the door could possibly be open (since the Lord after all HAD said that He already opened it) while it appeared to be so obviously still closed.

Seeing my apparently obvious frustration and fatigue from trying to find the round-peg solution to the square-hole problem, the Lord said "here, let me help you."  So I was again looking through my eyes at this still-closed door, and the Lord then began to lift me up, and I was more and more having to look down at the door rather than straight across at it.

I could barely see the door now, as the overhang of the front portion of the roof was blocking almost all of it.

Then the Lord put His hands of the sides of my face, and angled my head upa several degrees.  Now I could see many rooftops, and streets, and lightpoles, and city parks, and people riding their bikes and playing with their dogs.  You know, regular day-to-day life stuff.

And there, several blocks away, I saw an open door.  Between where I had been on the street and this open door, there were many left turns and right turns, a squiggly line that looked like a 4-year-old's attempt at drawing Sonic the Hedgehog.

"Wow, Lord, is that the door You were talking about?  But it's way over there!  What's up with that?!"  To which He replied: "You told me to open whatever door I wanted you to walk through, didn't you?"

"Ok Lord, you got me there.  So now what?"

"I'll nudge you left and right as you walk day to day, and when you get to the door, I'll let you know you're there so you can walk through it."

Realizing at this point it would be ridiculously pointless to ask Him to give me the "MapQuest" directions to the destination door, I made myself shut up and ponder what this fresh realization meant in my circumstances back in real-life.

It meant to walk as I already was walking, and I would have the assurance that if the Lord wanted me to turn left, He'd nudge me left, and if He wanted me to go right, He'd nudge me right.  And when I finally got to that door He opened for me to walk through, He'd make it clear that this was the door, so I could walk through it.

*     *     *     *     *     *     *

The point?  We get tunnel vision, looking at only a specific door (or at best, a few specific ones) and we get disappointed or upset when we don't get any information about whether the door is supposed to open or not.  But the Lord may be answering your prayers of "open the doors, Lord" five blocks North, two blocks West, along the alley under the third carport on the right -- one of those doors where, even if it was in your hometown and you were given the address of it, you still probably wouldn't know where it was.

When we ask the Lord to open doors, He is always faithful to do so, because He wants His people to walk in the good things that He has prepared ahead of time for them to do.  So be encouraged that the door has been opened...now you just need to trust Him to give you the turn-by-turn directions daily to get you there. :)

j†

September 11th, 2008.

Seven years. It's hard to believe it's already been seven years.

It's even harder to believe there hasn't been another successful attack on American soil in those seven years. Sadly, our "more tolerant" European friends have not had quite that level of success.

I remember that morning, waking up to a phone call from my mother, who said "Turn on the TV, quick...I think we're watching the start of World War Three." I remember watching in horror the scenes on the television of all that as going on. I remember trying (with mediocre success) to wash up, brush my teeth, and get dressed for work without leaving sight of the television.

I remember getting to "the Big Orange" (Home Depot) and hearing the announcement that there were fighter jets from the nearby Air Base patrolling the area, and that all major public venues (like malls and such) were closed for precautionary reasons. I remember the television in the breakroom being surrounded all day long by employees and the occasional customer who had asked if we had a TV they could "see the latest" on.

I remember being at work and seeing the replay of the people who were jumping out of the building in the vain attempt to save themselves. I remember us observing a moment of silence there at work (that lasted more than a minute), where everything was stopped -- from registers to forklifts, EVERYTHING -- so we could pray and remember what had just happened. I remember praying for the families affected, the churches in the area, for my family members who were still without Christ, and for my nation in general.

I remember spending all day praying, and making sure I was treating every customer at work and every person on the street with an extra measure of Christ's love and compassion. I remember approaching people more as a Christian who loves rather than an American who's a Christian.

And while I have heard many people (without thinking) talk about today as "Celebrating September 11th", I recognize it's not something we can "celebrate", but it is something we should remember.

Every year around this time, the Alex Jones sheepfold steps up their same old unsubstantiated rhetoric, further drawing people tired or "the war" into their self-defeating web of conspiracy and rendering them impotent in the calling in Christ. And every year, I remember being angry that people -- however well-intentioned -- continue to focus more on what in reality doesn't matter (i.e. who was behind the attacks) rather than recognize that who was really behind the attacks in one form or another -- the Enemy of all of our souls -- was and still is seeking to draw people away from God and towards his own web of deceit and destruction.

I remember back in the early 90's when Osama bin Laden was identified as the one trying to take out the supports of the World Trade Centers to cause their collapse. I remember, back then even, how angry people were and how appalled they were when he was allowed to go free, when Mr. Clinton didn't seem all that concerned with trying to bring him to real justice.

I remember other people remembering that in 2001, how angry they were when they thought about how different things would have been had the former President really gone after Osama the first time...and how if he had, there may not have been a second time.

The saddest part, however, is when I remember just how much so many Americans have forgotten.

I'm not at all saying we should live through each day with a perpetually morose mindset, or keeping ourselves "in the moment" all the time. I'm merely suggesting that if we are to really learn from the history of September 11th, we need to not forget (i.e. "remember") that we were, and are, in the crosshairs of Islamic extremists who have already completed the necessary "diplomatic requirements" that the faith proclaims must be taken care of before "the infidels" can be "legally" (according to the faith, anyways) destroyed.

I remember that I have Brothers and Sisters in Christ in "the sandboxes" taking the fight to the aggressors so that their families and friends here stateside don't have to see the fight unfold on their streets.

And I remember most of all that we're in the midst of a War that's already been won, that we're serving under the Commander in Chief Yeshua, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and that we must never forget that we have spiritual enemies (just as we do physical ones) that spend every moment planning and devising ways to either defeat us or distract us from what we're really supposed to be living for: Christ.

I remember.

Don't forget.

j†

Seriously...I don't even know what to say...

Watch the whole thing.  See what words you have.

..

"Amazing" just doesn't seem to cut it.

A response re-posted from the .:Jesus Freaks:. group...hopefully it clears some things up for some people and gives a good straight-forward look at the fallacy involved under the surface of the person who says "Give me some intellectual justifications for believing in God"...  j†

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"Intellectual justifications".......?! Embedded in that very phrase is probably the biggest cause of you not believing what God said.

The only time you need a "justification" is when other people think you did something wrong. In this case, "intellectual justifications" implies that you want to have some "smart sounding reasons" for believing in Jesus so that in case other people call you stupid names for it, you can have something smart to say in response to prove you're not some backwoods hick following the rest of the nutcases in their hick religion.

If that's the attitude you have towards the issue, then honestly, no amount of "intellectual justifications" will really give you a meaningful faith anyways, since you cannot really believe God and be worried about what some "smart sounding people" at the same time.

I really don't mean to come across harshly by this; I just want you to be absolutely clear when coming to the table that wanting something to refute the attacks that others might bring against you for believing in God is not only folly, but its a never-ending pursuit that in the end will leave you banished from BOTH those people and God.

I was introduced to my wife online, in an online tournament system we were both casually playing in. Now, who do you think I'd ever have to prove that she's a real person to...the people we know in real life, or the people in cyberspace that don't really know if EITHER of us are "real people"? I know she's real, my family knows she's real, everyone at church knows she's real...why? Because they've met her, interacted with her, have friendships with her. I don't have to prove her existence to myself or them, because our interactions are proof enough.

No, the only people I'd have to "prove" her existence to are those who have never met her, and even those people I can only do so much with. Why? Because if the person doesn't WANT to believe she's real, they'll find any and every excuse to dismiss whatever proof I give them as phony.

So when it comes down to it, all that matters is whether you want to know Him or not. If you DO, He will make Himself known to those who diligently seek Him, and you'll have the only "proof" that matters -- you'll KNOW Him; if you DON'T, then your mind has already been made up, and no amount of "proof" sill ever satisfy you.

Hope this helps clarify things a bit for you.

In His service, and yours,
jason†

The following is a question from the .:Jesus Freaks:. group that, once I got rolling on the answer, I thought was something pertinent enough for us all to be reminded of today.  I hope and pray it sinks in enough for us all to take action on it.  -- ♥,  j †

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Lenke08 wrote:
so what exactly happens to the people who didnt get raptured the first tiem but after that started worshipping god. What will happen to those people???

The people you asked about -- people who didn't believe until after the rapture -- are in a specific category known in Scripture as the "tribulation saints". And while I would ABSOLUTELY say that being a tribulation saint is infinitely better than never believing in Christ at all, I would ALSO like to say that I DOUBLE-ABSOLUTELY believe that becoming a "tribulation saint" is not nearly as easy as some people believe (or have been led to believe) -- and in fact it will cost the vast majority of trib-saints a gruesome death by beheading.

Various places in Scripture seem to indicate that it won't just be as easy as "I'm not going to believe now, but I'll wait to see if this rapture thing happens, and if it does THEN I'll believe and be saved." Many people believe -- and many WANT to believe -- that it'll be that easy, but they're only fooling themselves. For those who have chosen to take that position, what they're really saying is this:

"What God has shown me to this point isn't good enough, so I'm going to wait until I see this worldwide miraculous event before I choose to believe in God. Until then, I'm going to live however I see fit and not worry about eternity."

But Scripture says that God HAS given each of us all we need to believe in Him already! He has shown each of us things, He has even manifested His truth IN us (trip on THAT!), and He has ensured that what we are able to clearly see and understand Him and His invisible attributes (like love, patience, mercy, kindness, gentleness, compassion...etc.).

Don't believe me? :) Good. That means I can take you to Scripture, and God can tell you Himself. :) He's much better at it then I am anyways.

You see, Romans chapter 1 tells us that God will "give" those who refuse and reject Him three things:

*He will "give them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator..." (Romans 1:24-25)

*He will "give them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." (1:26-27)

*He will give them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them." (1:28-32)

Why does He "give" them such things? Is it harsh, callous, unloving? Well, let's see what they "gave" Him first:

18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24(a) "Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness..."

26(a) "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions..."

28(a) "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind..."

So let's see:

*God gives them the truth, and they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. (vs. 18)

*God manifests the things that may be known of Him to them and in them, and they see them and understand them -- and even know that it's God they're seeing and understanding! -- yet they choose not to glorify Him as God or be thankful, which leads to them becoming futile in their thoughts and the darkening of their hearts. (vss. 19-21)

*They trick themselves into thinking and proclaiming that they are wise, when in reality they have become fools, and essentially elevated corruptible man (or whichever other element of creation fits their specific tastes -- animals, birds, critters, trees, etc.) up to the level of incorruptible God. (vss. 22-23)

So how does this apply to becoming a "tribulation saint"?

Simple. If you knowingly reject and suppress the knowledge of God long enough, He will essentially give you what you say you want -- a life (and an eternity) without Him. Everyone has a point at which they can no longer turn around from the course they've chosen to go on, and when you cross that line, even something miraculous and worldwide as the Rapture will not be able to pull you out of your set course.

I know it's uber-freaky -- it should be!! -- and that's EXACTLY why Jesus was so emphatic about us getting off our lazy butts and GETTING OUT THERE and making disciples of all the nations!! He doesn't want us to just passively slip through life without talking to people about Him, hoping that one day something miraculous will just happen to occur in front of their faces so that MAYBE they might choose to finally believe.....He wants us to actively engage people, show them we love them, take care of them, show them compassion, pray for them, minister to them -- and tell them about HIM!

As cliche as it has become, today really IS the last day for many people on this planet, even many people in your city and my city. Perhaps even in your neighborhood. Maybe even in your family. Do you know what each person's eternal schedule looks like, when they're going to depart on that one-way train to either Glory or Despair? I know I don't. So maybe we should act like today is the day and not wait around to see if they're going to survive today's round of "Russian Roulette"?

Just a thought. :) Sorry for going on for so long.

In His service, and yours,
jason†

(from "Daily Thoughts for Disciples" by Oswald Chambers, July 28th entry)

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"You must be born again." -- John 3:7

The natural man does not want to be born again.

If one's morality is well within his own grasp and he has enough religion to give the right tone to his natural life, to talk about being born again seems utterly needless.  The natural man is not in distress, he is not conscious of conviction of sin, or of any disharmony, he is quite contented and at peace.

Conviction of sin is the realization that my natural life is based on a disposition that will not have Jesus Christ.  The gospel does not present what the natural man wants but what he needs, and the gospel awakens an intense resentment as well as an intense craving.  We will take God's blessings and lovingkindness and prosperities, but when it comes to the need of having our dispositions altered, there is opposition at once.

No one can have this state of mind altered without suffering for it in his body, and that is why people do anything to avoid conviction of sin.  When a worldly person who is happy, moral, and upright comes in contact with Jesus Christ, his "beauty" -- the perfectly ordered completeness of his nature -- is destroyed and that individual must be persuaded that Jesus Christ has a better kind of life for him; otherwise, he feels he had been better not to have come across Him...

Thank God, we are coming to the end of the shallow presentation of Christianity that makes out that Jesus Christ came only to give us peace.  Thousands of people are happy without God in this world, but that kind of happiness and peace is on a wrong level.

Jesus Christ came to send a sword through every peace that is not based on a personal relationship to Himself.  He came to put us right with God that His own peace might reign.

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Taken from Daily Thoughts for Disciples,  © 1976, 1994 by Oswald Chambers Publications Association, Ltd., and used by permission of Discovery House Publishers, Grand Rapids MI 4950l.  All rights reserved.

[[Some words Chambers uses are not used often today -- click [here] to look up difficult words.]]

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