On Friday, October 30, LETTERS reporter Fay Jacobs had the opportunity to chat by phone with film maker John Waters. He spoke to LETTERS from his Baltimore home, two weeks prior to his October 12 appearance at the beach to kick off the first Rehoboth Beach Independent Film Festival. Jacobs reports the conversation was informal, fun and quite enlightening.
Hello, Mr. Waters, do you prefer that I call you Mr. Waters or John?
Oh John, absolutely.
I understand you spoke with Rob Rector about the festival. Exactly how did festival honchos convince you to attend?
They called my agent. I’m on the lecture circuit, mostly college campuses. So they just called and asked. I do this sort of thing all the time.
You’ve been quoted on the Festival web site saying "If ever there were future John Waters stars lurking in Delaware, they’d be somewhere near Rehoboth, it’s my kind of town. Why?
It’s a gay beach town. It’s perfect. And because beach towns are always more extreme—especially in the winter. Most melodrama and insanity happens in the winter.
Well, I think that rings true for Rehoboth. Your film Pink Flamingos was extreme, celebrating, among other things, trailer parks. Might we convince you to shoot a film at one of Rehoboth’s many mobile home communities?
No, I’ve done the trailer park movie and I have no need to repeat it! But thanks for asking.
My favorite of your films was Hairspray. Tell me about having Divine (CAMPnote: the late Divine starred in many of Waters’ earlier films, including Pink Flamingos, Female Trouble, Polyester and Hairspray) as a neighbor when you were growing up?
Well, we didn’t meet until high school when he moved into my neighborhood. I used to see him at the bus stop, with different color hair every day. He was an only child and his parents owned a nursery school of all things—he wasn’t exactly the best ad for his parents.
I read that Divine was hassled all the time in high school—he hadn’t even become a drag queen yet.
No. He was quite the opposite. He was almost a nerd and he regularly got beaten up after school. Sometimes the police had to take him home. He didn’t become Divine until way later. I guess people didn’t see the divinity lurking there.
With the recent murder of Matthew Shepherd, do you think Divine would have it any easier today?
Well, if he went to school as Divine, things have changed so much I think he could have been homecoming princess. I mean Drag Queens are all over the place. Being out there and militant helps. But if he still was in school as Glen he’d still be hassled.
I mean with regard to the Wyoming thing—you know what? I hate the girls—the girlfriends of the killers who are still trying to justify it— more than the boys. I hope the girls get the electric chair. Well, really I don’t because I’m against capital punishment, even for them. But I think the boys might get the hot seat. What is the message? What is it they’re saying? Their excuse is that the boys were cruised? You certainly should be allowed to cruise straight people. Heterosexuals do it all the time with their comments and whistles.
Is there anybody on the scene now that fills the void left by Divine?
Well, drag queens aren’t new now. Back when I was working with Divine all the other drag queens were really square; so serious. I mean they all wanted to be Miss America. And what he was doing was making fun of drag. The other queens hated that. I think if he were still here today he’d be playing men as much as women. He was moving in that direction. What’s new now are drag kings, which is why they are in Pecker.
Pecker is about the downside of overexposure and stardom—do you relate to the leading character?
Not really. Ninety-nine percent of my life, of the celebrity has only been good. I’ve enjoyed it and I like being recognized. But the other day there was a really good example of a downside—I was at the Club Charles in Baltimore and the next day somebody told me that they read on the Internet that I went to take a pee and didn’t wash my hands. I mean Big Brother is really watching. The Internet, for heaven’s sake! But other than things like that...oh, and I can’t have bad sex anymore. I mean I can’t go out and... anyway, I don’t find a down side to it. It’s wonderful. I get to commit every crime I ever wanted to commit, but I do it on film and I don’t get punished. It’s great.
Is your next film— purported to be about a gang of teens terrorizing the film industry—going to be autobiographical?
No. Well, it’s about a lunatic film director who kidnaps a Hollywood star and forces her to work with him, but no, I have a sense of humor. The character in the movie is very serious. But it’s a story I’d be interested in!
It is called Cecil B. Demented, and we were supposed to make it before Pecker, but the financing, which was from France, fell through. By Hollywood standards, I guess it’s more insane than some others. And more expensive to make. We’re hoping to get it going, though.
I know you love Baltimore and still call it home. What do you love about it?
It’s a great place for thinking. I get my inspiration for films in Baltimore. Lots of people are certifiable. I mean normal people are very strange if you just listen to them. They come up with really crazy things. So I walk around and listen. I’m in New York a lot now, and I have an apartment there, but I still come back to Baltimore to get my ideas.
I was just on Route 40 by the old Westview theatre, which is now a Home Depot...do you miss the big old theaters?
Well there certainly are very few left. I love the Senator, a beautiful art deco place. It’s where I saw Wizard of Oz when I was a kid. And now I get to walk by and see the marquee saying Pecker by John Waters....that’s cool.
Do you have favorite clubs in Baltimore?
Well, other than Club Charles, the coolest bar in Baltimore, where I go a lot, I don’t want to go naming places. But I don’t like separatism, I like mixed clubs. In New York I love one of the places that advertises itself as a hetero-friendly gay bar. I love that.
You once told Jay Leno you loved inadvertently bad movies. You mentioned Mandingo and Other Side of Midnight—any recent favorites?
Not since Showgirls. That was really bad. I mean good. Good bad movies don’t mean to be bad. But now movies are purposeful trash. Like all those tongue in cheek film noires.
Everybody seems to agree that your recent movies are more mainstream—still funny and offbeat, but not as trashy and shocking. Is this maturity or is anything else at work here?
Well, I don’t know. I feel like I’m still twelve years old, still mentally ill. But I haven’t wanted to repeat myself. You move on. Times change, too. Yeah, maturity, I guess.
Was it more fun making movies one step ahead of the police?
No! (he interjects quickly.)
Or, do you enjoy the luxury of being backed by big studios?
I’m too old to go to jail. I have fondness for the memories of the old days, but I paid my dues.
How do you think independent film makers treat gay issues vs. the Hollywood style?
Hollywood turns gay people into Thelma Ritter—the next door neighbor who never has sex. Independent films whine about the issue—too much. And underground films are proud to be out and kick ass!
Is it true that you love to hitchhike. Is that how you are planning to get to Rehoboth?
No, they’re sending a car for me! But I hitchhiked in P-Town last summer. I love to do it in some of the smaller communities. That’s one of the upsides of celebrity. Generally people recognize me right away and I get a good ratio of pick-ups. It works in Baltimore in the snow.
Well, I’m looking forward to meeting you at the Festival. Where’s your next stop after Rehoboth?
The next day I’m off to Europe. Six or seven countries for the publicity for Pecker. Rehoboth will be my last stop in the USA for a while. I’m looking forward to it.
So are we! See you at the beach!