For me, the influences were Richard Belzer, Bill Hicks, Lenny Bruce, and perhaps the greatest non-verbal-communicating comedian of all time, Charles Spencer Chaplin.
 

Commentary:

1. Many of us, Mr. Wisty not excluded, would be funnier if we killed ourselves.

2. Early Pryor sounds a lot like Cosby.

3. Let's see. Freddie Prinze. Check. Richard Jeni. Check. Name another national comic who committed suicide. I'm waiting. You're not thinking of any others. There's a reason. There aren't any. Oops.

4. One is left to wonder if Mr. Wisty thought about his topic for more than twelve seconds before composing this week's blog entry. I'm sure he's a swell guy and everything, but I'm guessing not.

5. There are no mammals native to New Zealand except bats. That is apropos of nothing, but I wanted to feel helpful and informative.

 

I should preface this by saying, I am not a comedian, nor do I have any aspirations to become one.  I think this is a really interesting topic of discussion though.  While I agree that Wisty's comments are a off base, I think there's a small kernal of truth to what his friend said.  I started thinking about the comedians I love best, and one of the first common elements I found was "Angst."  Its unfortunate, but I think that Heideggerian angst is commonly confused with depression, or depression's lesser symptoms.  Good comics, as far as I can tell, are comics who have a passionately held point of view.  They are funny, sure - but at their core they have a message, or an issue that means the world to them - they are so passionate about these issues that they find public forums to talk about them.  Bill Hicks is a great example.  Anyone who watched him for more than 30 seconds understood that he was feircely passionate about what he believed.  Good comedians are also well versed with the world's hypocricy and ugliness - given that all the world's foibles, ugliness, and ills are grist for the satirists mill.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that to be a good comedian, it seems that you have to be intelligent, perceptive, and passionate - a trifecta of qualities that can easily make a person upset or depressed from time to time.      
 

Hey hey-

Glad you're jumping in, Leamon. Honestly, I think you've got all the traits of what would be a great comic- we both know you're naturally funny. You also have the traits you listed- you're intelligent, perceptive, and passionate, as I've learned from our many debates in the past. I think if you had found Bill Hicks in seventh grade rather then later, we'd probably be in the open mic trenches together. Depressed much?

Hicks is easily one of the great comics, and he took the stage with a fury and righteous indignation. However, he never had any struggles with depression that we were privy too. If he was depressed, it wasn't a big part of his life. Yes, he took a lot of drugs, but that was because he believed the drugs made him smarter- he was all about opening his mind, ect. And he quit drugs when he became worried he might get addicted (except for cigarettes). He died from cancer, and spent his last days chilling with his parents and friends. He was an angry guy, but not a sad guy.

I'm thinking of all the guys that I considered the all time, legendary great comics, and depression isn't really a factor for any of them, honestly. I'm thinking Cosby, Newhart, Carson, Letterman, Steve Martin...none of these guys were ever insitutionalized or suicidal. Honestly, I'm hard pressed to think of comics who have depression as a big part of their lives, but I'm willing to be corrected. It can't be a long list.

I'm sure comics are depressed now and then, but I honestly think it's just a sterotype, and people find the idea of a depressed comedian intresting and ironic.

 

 

Thanks for the compliments.  Performance art has never really been my thing though...  Except for that time we choreographed you making a PB+J, and me murdering you with a hockey stick to Beethoven.  that was funny as hell. 

I think you're right on all counts.  I think the depressed comedian is a really compeling stereotype - but it's just that: a stereotype.  I think it's interesting to note that this stereotype isn't limited to comedians.  Really, any person involved in creative expression - artists, musicians, writers, etc. are in profiler's crosshairs.  I think the stereotype is more compelling for comedians though because of the irony of the funny coming from the sad.  What I was trying to get at in my previous comment was that good comedy is born out of serious human passion.  Like many writers, or artists, or musicians, I suspect good comedians are sparked by issues that mean the world to them - issues that they need to talk about in a public forum.

I used Bill Hicks as an example, not because I thought he was sad or depressed, but because he embodies that passion that other comedians are striving to bring to their work.  You're right, he was a profoundly angry individual, but all too often anger and sadness are different sides of the same coin.  They're both responses to things that upset you.  Anger is the proactive approach, whereas sadness is the passive approach.  So like I said, I think one of the characteristics that unite good comedians is angst and passion.  Of course, this is me and I happen to be a profoundly angry human being and maybe thats why the comedy of Bill Hicks appeals to me.  You're right about Cosby and Carson, etc.. they never realy struck me as particularly angry or sad guys - not until recently of course in Cosby's case.

Another thing that reinforces the stereotype is the nature of comedy itself.  Just about every scholarly book on comedy has the word "tragedy" somewhere in it's pages.   People are really attached to the aparent dichotomy of comedy and tragedy, and the things it produces.  Thats a whole different can of worms though.

Bottom-line, there's always a danger when people like Wisty try to unite all the disparate factions of an art form under one umbrella.  Things get overlooked or deliberately skewed.  As much as we want tidy bins to lump people into, no such bins exist.

 

Right- I think that there are certainly a number of comedians that are depressed, but to say that depression is the one common element that unites comedians shows a lack of thought. I earnestly believe that the one thing every comedian has in common is somewhere along the line, they saw a comedian that struck a chord and moved them. I wonder if that's true of all performing arts.

I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on the subject Leamon. I think if more columnists would ignore the easy stereotypes and dig a little deeper, we would get more intresting conversations like that arising from it.

 

Eddie Murphy made me want to do comedy, but it was seeing Doug Stanhope at Wiseacres in 2005 that made me think I actually could. Well, actually, more his openers- Norm Wilkerson and Brian Jett and some other dude whose name I don't remember and never saw again. I couldn't identify enough with Stanhope or Murphy, but Norm and Brian seemed like normal dudes, and I thought, "Hey, I'M a normal dude!"

I think a lot of the sour, depressed stereotype also comes from the nature of stand-up comedy as a business. Haven't you ever complained to a non-comic friend about some uber-hack comedian that you saw kill? Add to that joke thievery and grinding road schedules and you have an occupational atmosphere in which bitterness is easily cultivated.
 

Thats quite a list - but as Jimmy referenced in his original post, how much of that behavior is an outgrowth of the stresses of fame and money, and how much of it is an occupational hazard faced by all comics, famous or otherwise?  Fame can make people do really strange things.  For every wild-eyed comedian setting fire to a studio, there's a Naomi Campell attacking people with a cellphone, or a Tom Cruise leaping from couch to couch extolling the wonders of L. Ron Hubbard, or a Mike Tyson tattooing his face and threatening to eat another man's children.  These are the tamer stories. Fame is a very strange thing, and I suspect that it's responsible for the majority of those kind of outbursts, or self-destructive binges.

I was watching Dave Chapelle on Inside the Actor's Studio the other day, and his comments on being famous were really insightful.  He said he felt like he was inside a cartoon where two characters are starving to death, and one of the characters looks at the other, and the character turns into a big cooked turkey or something. No one's prepared to have to screen their relationships, and constantly be worried about people's motives for being near them.  It's a recipe for terrifying loneliness, paranoia, etc, regardless of whether they're suffering from any pschological disorders.  Combine that with thousands to millions in disposable income, and escapism can spin rapidly out of control.       
 

Brilliantly put, Jimmy, as always. I agree with most points that people have brought up, though I think a lot of it stems from a (founded) stereotype that comedians, or at least those I've gotten to know in and around DC think on a much more analytical, pessimistic, or occasionally embittered scale about the world at large. (I could just say that most people who get into comedy as a serious endeavor are simply smarter than most people, but that would be arrogant and braggadocious and completely true...they need to be). I've never been what anyone would consider depressed per se, I've never really done drugs, nor have I had (many) issues with mood swings or erratic behavior. What I am, like many of my close friends in comedy, is a nerd who's damn proud of being a nerd and loves making with the funny. Despite being (I may be off here, but) a generally happy and well-balanced person, a lot of things about comedy, society, and the world legitimately piss me off. Personally, I got inspiration from an eclectic variety of standups (Steve Martin, Hedberg, et al), sketch (In Living Color, Mr. Show), and occasional improv artists. Of the comedy or what's presented as "comedy" in shitty sitcoms (word on your sitcom blurb, btw), I usually dislike more than that I like, which I'm sure is the same for a lot of comics. Even on the nights that I don't have satisfying sets, I remember that doing it is always 110% more effective than just sitting around and bitching, though. Every human being needs validation in one way or another, comedians just get out there and go for it in an alternately frustrating, challenging, and rewarding way.
 

Hedberg was the one who got me into it. Prior to that, growing up, I was obsessed with Eddie Murphy, Norm MacDonald and Cosby.
I don't buy into the depression thing either. Depression can drive people in any field. I don't think more comics are depressed than stock brokers. Being depressed doesn't make people funny, or make them great writers.
 

Interestingly enough, my "I can do this moment" was when I was watching two guys named Mike Avolio and Jimmy Meritt at a "Yo' Mama's Cookin'" show.  (You did this to me, you bastard!)  Before that, I was inspired to write comedy by Bob Hope, who was the major influence for Johnny Carson.  Then I took a lot of influence from Dana Carvey and Lewis Black.  Later on, it became Mitch Hedberg, Demetri Martin and Frank Caliendo.

As for the "depressed" comedian, I think there are a lot of factors as to why this stereotype.  First of all, people are fascinated as to why we would go on a stage to make a bunch of people laugh.  They would rather die than do it, and they have to justify it in their minds that we can do this so "easily."  Artists are labeled crazy, even though the "nutty artist" is in the minority.  But it's convienent to talk about Van Gough cutting off his ear and sending it to his girlfriend, because it dehumanizes him and puts him a tidy little box.

The original comedians, the king's court jesters, kept their audiences sane by serving as uninhibited check on their egos.  They needed somebody to tell them they weren't Gods, and the jesters did this through humor.  Now-a-days, there are no kings, but people are ruled by pop culture and societal influences. This is why comics are necessary, because they point out the absurdness in things that everybody takes for granted.  Society needs to be reminded that it is not perfect, just like the medival kings of old.

Unfortunately, this presents a problem because people find comfort in conforming to society and culture, and become threatened those who point out its idisyncracities and wish to change it.  They have to justify the comedian's commentary on society (and, as a by-product, their lives) with comfortbale stereotypes.  "Comedians are fucked up people," "they are clinically dperessed," and "they don't fit into society, so they have to mock it" are some pretty good examples.

Take Dave Chappelle.  He saw what the $50 million he got from Comedy Central was doing to his friends, and decided that it wasn't worth it.  Don't we teach our kids that money isn't everything, and that friendship is important?  Shoudn't we be saying, "Dave Chappelle would sell his soul for money?"  Instead, people called him "crazy" and said that "he didn't want to be successful."  Something had to be wrong with him, because he was brilliant and didn't want the money.

As your main man Leamon said, good comics have a core issue that they care about, and are passionate.  I would venture to guess this is because they have to stand up to a lot of criticism from people who fear their view point (Bill Hicks' bit about the Christians who confronted him after one of his shows is an excellent example) and want them to shut up.  And when they can't, they have to justify it in their own minds.  Hence, the "depressed" comedian.

(I think "Punchline" played off this idea, and took it to another level.)

Thanks for the insightful post!
- Matt

 

I don't see depression as the driving force behind most standup comedy.....I think depression is merely a byproduct the "game" that is standup...just like it is a by product of alot of fields...check the stats on Police Officer suicides sometime......many people have the whole sad clown thing in their heads as in "He's trying to make everyone laugh therefore he must be hiding his own pain" many times nothing could further from the truth.....I like to make people laugh because it brings me enjoyment to see people laugh...sounds corny...but its true