While I can see where you are coming from, I do disagree. Yes, this may seem like small matter, one hardly worth getting riled up about, but if you step back it really isn't all that small.

We have see the damage that can be done by a President who ignores the people of his nation (we've had 7 years to witness the damage), and who wants that to happen again? Most all of the people who were supporting Barack on Joe's former community believed him to be a candidate that stood apart from the rest, that had something different, something more honest about him. Now in reality, it was probably a mistake on our parts to let ourselves get so trustworthy of a politician (I'm a bit cynical), but this nation deserves a president that can be there for the people. A president who will truly listen and act upon what the people say.

That is why we cannot let this issue die. We cannot let Obama settle for being another crooked politician who sweet talks the nation yet means nothing he says. He is better than that and has the potential to be a great leader. It is our duty to hold him responsible for the actions of his campaign so that he realizes we expect more from him as a potential leader of this country. Joe Anthony does deserve retribution for what happened to him, and Senator Obama needs to be the one to step up and mend fences between himself and the Netroot community. He must stand up and prove to us that he is the leader we've been searching for.
 

Thank you for your thoughtful perspective.

I have considered this issue. My thinking is ...

Senator Obama is not a victim. He is not helpless. He is not powerless.

I, personally, do not believe that Senator Obama has yet been given a full and accurate accounting of what took place with MySpaceGate. He obviously knows something about it, but the appearance is that he has only been given choice pieces of messaged information -- none of which would jeopardize anyone's employment status with his campaign. The Senator is extremely busy these days with all the demands of campaigning, and he needs to rely heavily on his campaign staff. He depends on them to align his campaign with his stated values and ideals -- to run the campaign as Senator Obama, himself, would run it if he had the time. And, to inform him accurately and honestly about issues that seriously affect his campaign.

The problem, here, is Senator Obama's campaign staff appear to NOT be running his campaign in alignment with Obama's stated values and ideals. They appear to NOT be running his campaign as the Senator would run it himself, if he had the time. And, they appear to NOT be providing him with accurate and honest information about how his campaign has been behaving.

THAT is the whole point of why I am involved in this effort. I want Senator Obama to have a chance to rescue his campaign, before his campaign staff runs it into the ground. So far, they are doing a fairly good job -- of laying a foundation for later disaster. I saw one Internet commenter refer to it as "a slow bleed".

By "campaign staff", I do not mean all of Obama's campaign staff. The appearance is that only one, or a few, people are responsible for this entire mess. However, as outsiders, we do not have enough information to clearly know which person or people are causing the problems. A few names have been publicly mentioned, but it is not clear if they were acting of their own volition, or if they were simply doing what some higher-up person ordered them to do. It is very unfortunate that we need to use such a general term as 'campaign staff' -- and unintentionally cast suspicion on all of the hard working people on his campaign staff. However, at the current time, we do not have enough solid information to conclusively point a more selective finger.

A very key problem here appears to be that the people Senator Obama is getting his information from, are the very same people causing the problem in the first place. The conflict of interest inside the Obama campaign, with regards to MySpaceGate, is palpable, inescapable. By saying this, I do not mean to say that the very top person or people on his campaign staff are guilty. That is unclear. However, somewhere along the chain of command, there appears to be a breach of honesty, a breach of integrity. The exact location of that breach is unclear. However, what is clear is that it is polluting the information stream all the way up the chain-of-command.

So, with all of this said, the whole intent here is to get the MySpaceGate issue enough attention NOW, so that Senator Obama has a chance to fix it before it causes him REAL problems later on - when it could hurt him far more than it is hurting him now.

The point of all of this is that Senator Obama has the power to fix this. He is not powerless. He is not helpless. He is not a victim.

And, if he chooses to not fix it, that is significant as well. It tells us that he is not who he claims to be.

If Senator Obama's campaign becomes a victim of MySpaceGate, he will have no one to blame but his campaign staff - and, ultimately, himself.

A ship's captain that ignores the warnings a light house is trying to give him, does himself no good by blaming the light house when his ship runs aground.

Thank you, again, for your thoughtful perspective. I hope this response is of use to you.

Sincerely,
PJ Public


 

I don't think this will cost Obama the preliminaries... one step at a time here =)

There are some people who still believe Joe deserves some kind of retribution, but (here's my butt ;-) honestly, the only reason I joined Joe's Obama page instead of the many others was because Joe's was being linked to on the myspace homepage.  In fact, in the article Joe has on his personal page, it is stated that his page soared after  the campaign did that.  Sure Joe clicked the add button and responded to emails, but the campaign asked to help and offered him a chance to interview for a staff position.  It wasn't until Joe decided he didn't want to interview and revolked them login priviledges anymore that the campaign decided they should look into having full access to an official myspace page...

That being the case, 1. they had the right to the myspace.com/barackobama url that they had promoted 2. it is not unreasonable that they decided they could recreate the friends list (that they were in large part responsible for through said promotion) and save $40-50k for other campaigning needs.  3. Joe *volunteered* his time just like the literally thousands of volunteers who are managing various grassroots efforts across the country.

So I agree with this woman... it's not an important issue and I believe many others feel the same way given how quickly the official page has soared to over 65,000 friends in a week and continues to grow. 



 

I'm seriously starting to understand why Joe deleted the old page and denied all the interviews from those that sought a story. (sigh)

Bluestem, there are MANY who still believe that Joe deserves some kind of retribution and I think the good majority of us aren't even talking about monetarily but just affirmation of Joes side of the events so thousands of people stop trying to put a scarlet letter on him!  For heavens sake the guy gave of himself FREELY more than most and probably more than the so-called campaign staff that are cashing their checks every week.

You say that the only reason that you joined Joe's Obama page was that it was being linked to on the homepage?  Hello, how do you think that page got there in the first place to be linked to?  I think you're missing the big picture here in that Joe took his time FREELY to take on a task that at the time it was created no one else was doing and he did so VOLUNTARILY because he SUPPORTED Senator Obama.

Yes the page soared at a certain point but that doesn't discount the tens of thousands of friends/supporters that were already there.  There is a difference by the way to a person throwing up a MySpace page with a few friends and clicking and add button every now and then and having to respond to tens of thousands and eventually 160,000 said questions and responses.  That old adage of if you haven't walked in their shoes certainly applies here.

The part about Joe was offered a position and didn't take it always seems to make me laugh that no one thinks that maybe Joe likes living in LA where there's some pretty nice weather year round and he was already employed, but he was suppose to just pull up stakes and head to Chicago?  Now I don't want to bag on Chicago but, (here's my butt Blue) I'm guessing if you took a poll to be in sub-freezing weather or in nice weather year round ...... well you get my drift ...... not the snow drift.

I believe that you have your facts a bit off on the revoked privileges time frame.  TeamObama had already been talking about having the page become theirs and "Official" before the password was changed.  Joe changed the password because of several reasons, one that it was against MySpace TOS to have someone else have access to your page.  Then don't forget that even after Joe changed the password, he continued to work on the page with TeamObamas suggestions.

 

So That being the case, Joe was already working with them to transfer over the page even though he built it long before Senator Obama had even announced his candidacy or thought about having a MySpace page.  This he was doing even though TeamObama could just as easily hit the keyboards and created BarackObama2008 or something of the like and still had Joe pointing prospective friends like yourself to that page too. (like he was already doing to BarackObama.com)  Yes it was not unreasonable to recreate the friends list and direct traffic to that newly created page too.  Imagine for a moment that you have a page that with one bulletin you could send out to 160,000 a message something like; "hey everyone, thank you all for being here in this community of Senator Obama supporters with me and I want you to know that you can just click on this button here and it will add you to the new "Official" Barrack Obama for President page!  I urge you to join that friend list too because it will be giving you more information so that we can continue to push ahead for 2008.  I will continue to answer any questions that I can or direct you to help you with an answer.  Thanks again, Joe Moderator"

Now don't you think that would be a wiser move to make than the way this was totally mishandled by TeamObama?  You would still have a friend base of 160,000+ on one site and a friend base of equal if not more on the new one in a relatively shorter period of time.  As for the saving $40-50K, well I guess we'll never know now will we because they chose not to reply with a counter offer or suggestion and instead just said nothing....... and then they went into attack mode ...... and then it started to get ugly ..... and now it's festering and doesn't smell very good at TeamObama.  You are right that Joe "volunteered" his time and for that he got trashed ruthlessly by TeanObama for his efforts.  Those other thousands of volunteers may still be there, but a smart man/woman knows that EVERY volunteer is important ...... even if they only run a website with 160,000 friends on it.

 

So you may agree with this woman... but to say that it's not an important issue is not only wrong but dangerous on down the line when it gets tossed back into his face at some debate and he has to explain why he pulled the rug out from under one of his netroot supporters that he certainly likes to champion as often as he can in his speeches.  As to your point about how quickly it has grown to over 65,000 in a week......... well I'll refer back to that two site theory and how nice it would be to sitting here right now with over 300,000 friends and looking back at Senator Clinton instead of ahead.

 

~another average joe

 

I think you misunderstood... I believe Joe did a fine job and he does deserve recognition for his work.  I don't however believe he ever deserved upwards $50k for the friends list.  According to the article, his page "soared to 80,000" after the campaign linked it from myspace homepage.  Well over 1/2 of the people came after the link. 

The only thing the campaign did to Joe was perhaps getting his hopes up about  a potential payday... and I question the real reasons he shut them out of the myspace page if not an attempt to 'encourage' negotiations.  There was no agreement that they broke or were responsible to uphold.  Joe lost out on making some money on this perhaps because he way overshot the field. 

I don't see this has an important issue or any more dangerous than the muslim attacks or middle name association attempts to discredit him. 

In any case, Joe has gotten positive recognition which he deserved from the Obama camp and it's time to move on.  He has.  
 

I didn't misunderstand anything and as I said above, I'm/we're not talking about whether Joe got any money or not as THE ISSUE. It has everything to do with his name and reputation. The article from Joe Rospars who works for the Obama camp and posted on the "Official" website under the guise of an "Official" statement on behalf of Senator Obama clearly calls into question that. He's being called an extortionist and cybersquatter? Not to have to repeat what I've said for the umpteenth time, if Camp Obama chose not to respond to the thousands of posts that have permeated the Internet for clarification on the main points, then that leaves me to only believe what has been said by Joe Anthony and not denied by Camp Obama. You have your opinion as do we and to call this not an important issue is really not forward thinking. A large group of us feel that this is a ticking time bomb just waiting for some other camp drooling over waiting to use at the next Democratic debate or at the Presidential Debate. If you feel it's time to move on, that's your right and you should do it and if we feel it's not time to move on it's our right and we will do that. Very easy really to comprehend.               ~another average joe
 

Yes, it's certaintly your right as is mine to have a different opinion.  There's no need to be rude. I saw another blog by a person who posted the reply he got from the Obama campaign regarding his question on this.  They were very nice in their comments regarding Joe and I have yet to read anything where they are otherwise...

"size="3">Thanks for writing us with your concern about the confusion over our official Myspace profile. Simply put, there has been a lot bouncing around throughout the internet on this one. Nonetheless, we think Joe Anthony did a great job in organizing on MySpace and worked with him toward the profile becoming official. Unfortunately, after working together for the last two months, we did not achieve an agreement on how to move forward together and therefore started our new official profile with the official url being www.myspace.com/barackobama. Joe worked hard to build the community and is running his own unique profile. We hope our official MySpace community can work together with Joe as well as the rest of the unofficial Myspace communities in the days ahead.

size="3">

size="3">Lindsay @ Obama HQ

size="3">www.barackobama.com"

Considering that this page as roughly 300 people while Obama's page has reached nearly 70,000, I think this is not as large of an issue as it is to you.  And just so you know, I'm not set to cast my vote for Obama or anyone else yet...  he just has my interest.  I look forward to the debates on the more serious issues facing our nation.
 

First of all Blue let me say that if you felt I was somehow rude, I apologize that was/is certainly not my intention.  That sometimes in the problem with having discussion in text rather than face-to-face it can be determined by the reader differently than the poster.  I try not to fall into the trap of having to resort to name calling and bashing when communicating via the Internet, but it sometimes may come across differently when one is passionate about a cause.

Now on the comment you quoted from TeamObama, I too have received the same "canned" reply from them with just a different  "name" @ Obama HQ

Although the tone of this reply was civil, it was/is void of substance as to the questions asked.  You may want to try this for yourself to see what I'm talking about.  Just send them a question and ask them specifically to reply "if they asked Joe Anthony to submit an amount to them before he did it?"  That is really getting to the point of the whole MySpaceGate.  I would tend to believe that you will receive the same canned reply as I and many others have received.

The point about 300 people, well let me use an analogy from my days in the restaurant business.  If the heath inspector comes by and sees 1 live cockroach, he'll assume that there are 100.  Just because one doesn't see the number in total, doesn't mean that is the total number.

I too am not set in concrete on Senator Obama and never have been, I choose to make my mind up probably about a week before the election and only after careful investigation of the candidate.  I want to vote for the most electable candidate that has my views and can win in the main election against the Republican candidate. Our country can not survive another 4 years under that kind of lack of leadership.  I have two candidates on my top friends list at the moment and those are Senator Obama and Senator Clinton, but does that mean that I'm going to vote for one of those two ...... I'll tell you a week before the election.

~another average joe

 

Perhaps you're trying to be sarcastic, but it came across condescending. ("Hello, it...." "its really quite easy to comprehend" etc)

It's not that I don't 'comprehend' your point, just that I disagree. 

Regarding the 'canned' email, I think it's appropriate to send an official statement of sorts out especially if they are receiving many asking the same thing.  The statement addresses the question, imho.  I'm sure they are recieving thousands of emails a day pertaining to all issues like the war, energy, healthcare, etc. that they try to reply as best they can.

anyhow, for me, this issue is resolved, and I hope it resolves soon for you too.

 

I/we here at the website generally all want this issue to be resolved so that we can get back to what we were before MySpaceGate took place and that is/was to be Senator Obama supporters like Joe Anthony was/is.  I've read some of your posts both here and on the "Official" barack-myspace page and obviously you are a staunch supporter of Senator Obama as most all of us are/were here in this new community, but please understand that "Do the Right Thing Barack" is very much formed to resolve the MySpaceGate.  There's no hidden agenda about that, it's the cause that is/will be our driving force until it's resolution.  Then at that point we can hopefully make the transition into backing fully the candidate without fear of the same ole same ole politics as usual in the Whitehouse.  (obviously I'm speaking in generality since I've not done a poll of every friend here)

I know you don't know me, but one thing I can assure you is that I speak frankly and if I think you're an ass, I'll call you an ass.  I just prefer to use logic first.

~another average joe

 

"I've read some of your posts both here and on the "Official" barack-myspace page and obviously you are a staunch supporter of Senator Obama"

If memory serves me correctly, I think I posted once on Obama's site in reply to someone's question about what they can do to use less gas if they can't afford a new hybrid...

yes, I am excited about Obama and his potential (even wrote a blog about it) but wouldn't say I'm a "staunch supporter"   I'm assuming here that you feel perhaps I'm not seeing your point of view because of some blind devotion.  This isn't the case.  My intention was only to point out that I really don't see the issue the same way you are viewing it and are choosing to make an issue out of it.  I've pretty much stated why already, so I guess I'll sign off our conversation and leave you to your opinion.

 

Sounds good, agree to disagree.                ~another average joe
 

Blue,

As for the 300 vs 70,000 comparison, that's an apples and oranges comparison.

1.) The DtRTB started up and got together as a group just over a week ago, Obama's crew has been together for months.

2) We are still getting organized as a group, they have been organized for months.

3) We are all working part-time, as we have time. They are working full-time as paid staff.

4) We have zero funding, they have $25 million+ in funding.

5) We do not have access to the same media outlets that they do. Impact.MySpace.com does not post our logo & a link to our site on their homepage.

So, it *really* is an apples and oranges comparison.

Concerning the 300 number itself ... We intentionally stopped sending out invites last week, until we have a chance to re-group, re-organize, and move forward as a community. So, the fact our numbers stopped at around 300 is meaningless - that simply is reflective of the point at which we decided to "push the pause button" on getting our message out, until we have a chance to re-group. It it not at all reflective of  how many people would/will support us, once we get our message out to a wider audience.

Concerning the "bouncing around" comment from the official campaign, while their message was 'nice' on the surface, what is not 'nice' about it is that they ...
 
A.) continue to not tell the whole story.

B.) continue to overtly and publicly slander the person who built their initial web presence into a powerhouse.

There is, quite frankly, nothing 'nice' about either of those two things.

PJ


 

sorry, I didn't mean to offend... I thought your myspace page and the official Obama myspace page started around the same time about a few weeks ago?  Anyhow, what exactly do you want Obama to do?  A large explanation was already posted once and to which Joe replied to specific points.  For me I think the explanation was appropriate and gave Joe the credit and recognition he deserved.



 

Oh, and also ...

The 'official' Obama MySpace page was (re)started a few weeks ago. You are correct on that. However, the team of people who are working on it have been together for months. This link describes Obama's campaign staff. Scroll down to the "Internet" section to see Joe Rospars and his team listed. I do not know exactly when they all started working for the campaign, but they certainly have been together much longer than we (DtRTB) have. And, some of them have done this stuff before. We haven't. We're still figuring out how to organize ourselves, etc, etc.

Anyways, that's an additional 2 cents for you.

Regards,
PJ

 

Blue,

Thanks for your response. Good questions there.

As for "what exactly do [we] want Obama to do", that is something we - as a group - still need to decide on. Each of us have our own opinions, but we have not yet had the chance to reach a consensus view on that.

We've been focused the past several days, or week, on designing a decent looking logo, redesigning our website, etc. I'm not a graphic artist, so some of the other people here have pitched in to make our site look decent. We haven't put up the new look yet, but it will be there soon.

I'm not sure if our next step will be deciding on a group-approved "fix it list", or better organizing as a group, or what have you. We'll see. But, either way, I anticipate we'll have a "fix it list" posted in the not too distant future.

I can tell you, however, that Joe Rospars blog-post entitled, Our MySpace Experiment was, and is, regarded as incomplete, misleading, slanderous, and style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">inflammatory by many in our group -- including myself. He not only doesn't tell the truth about what he and his team did, he also portrays Joe Anthony in an inaccurate and slanderous manner. I wrote-up a blog-post on this a week or so ago. It is available here. I encourage you to check it out. It will help to explain some of our outrage.

Best Regards,
PJ


 

Thanks for the courteous reply and the link.  That is the response I read previously, but with Joe's response included.  It's also my understanding (from Joe's blog) that Obama called him personally.

In my opinion, I found it odd that Joe withdrew the access of the Obama camp *after* talks about employment didn't work out (I understand Joe's perspective and I wouldn't want to necessarily uproot myself for a temp position either). 

Now whether or not Joe asked for other financial payment for his time or the campaign manager asked Joe for a lump sum figure is the point where I can see any issue.  Joe asserts he didn't but... again my point from above...he did lock out the campaign on the page they were essentially promoting as the official myspace page.  why did he do that?   For me, and this is obviously not the case for everyone, I think it was ridiculous that any talk of money was being negotiated in the first place and that the campaign had the right to the url.

In any case, it seems like you all are heading in a positive direction towards a resolution... by that I mean figuring out what you would like to see/hear from Obama above what he's already done.  I'm sure Obama is more likely to respond to a reasonble resolution than to vague comments left on the myspace page. 

Again, I hope you all find the resolution you're seeking.  =)

 

<P>Wow! I am so terrible about losing my cool and calling people names when I think they are intentionally not seeing the obvious, but I will give it a shot. </P><P>I have mixed emotions about the whole thing, part of me would like to move on, I have been in love with the candidacy of Obama since 2004. I have had a few qualms in the past few months as more info on the man has come out, but overall, I still find him to be the best and the most exciting candidate (I agree with Dennis Kucinich on EVERY issue and worked hard on his campaign in 2004 but realize America will not elect him). I also confess as a white southerner who grew up in Montgomery between Dr. King and George Wallace, I would love to see a black man be president.</P><P>Having said all of that, I am shaken to the core at the treatment of Joe Anthony. I know he has chosen to move on, but that is because he is a gentleman. I am  not, I am a street fighting bastard who will stab, kick, and pile drive until I think justice has been done, so until Obama and his crew acts better than the thug politicians we hope he can replace, this issue stays front and center. I have faith in Obama's intelligence, and hope for his moral character, that he will fix this mess.</P><P> </P><P>Hope I did not offend or condesend or anything else, if I did, PJ please delelte my comment.</P><P>Anthony Watkins</P>
 

<P>I understand where this young lady is coming from.  I am right there with her.  My problem is two-fold.  First Barack's campaign has treated Joe horribly throughout this ordeal and there is no way they can convince me that he deserved that or the ridicule from Barack supporters that has followed their slanderous blog.  Secondly, Barack professes to be running a grassroots campaign and his actions with Joe make it pretty clear that is only true to the extent that he wants all of us campaigning for hm with nothing in return.  In reality he will stomp on us for his own gain, if necessary.</P><P>I see you guys are trying to determine the goal of the group.  My only goal is a sincere public apology to Joe and a sincere acknowledgment of his generous contribution to Barack's campaign.  Anything short of that and I can no longer support Barack based on his platform, which I am now hard pressed to believe he will deliver on based on his actions on this issue.</P>