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paul

paul barnett


Dernière mise à jour : 1/12/2009

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Sexe : Male
Statut : En couple
Age : 40
Zodiaque: Capricorne

Ville : FAIRFAX
Région : VIRGINIA
Pays: US
Date d’inscription :: 15/05/2006

Compliments de :


mai 10, 2007 - jeudi 

Warning, this is all about Warhammer Online so skip if your not into the game.

Today I had to have a long think about the Bloodthirster. Not the first time I have had to think about it, but today was an important day. After all the Bloodthirster is a big monster, the biggest. And we need it to be right. I mean after you have been to the bastion stair, fought your way in and risked life, limb and hours of guild hunting time we need you to have a few BLOODY HELL moments.

So it's a big lad, I mean big. Think real big then think about 15% bigger. I needed to get the animators to think big. I mean this bad boy is so big that he currently clips out when you look up at him. (That's computer talk that means you can't actually see all of the figure when you look at him because it reaches to high into the air. This will be fixed before launch obviously.)

I needed them to think in 3 dimensions, I mean he can't really swing that axe, well not at waist height it would have looked dumb. Players struggle to come up to his hoof. So you need his attacks to make sense, sort of like when a person is trying to hit hamsters with a hammer. I took a load of video on my phone so hopefully marketing will allow them to be in the video blogs soon.

So I grabbed some background material and started making notes. The first big problem you run up against with almost all the Warhammer stuff is that people are drawn to the miniatures. And who wouldn't be? I mean they are beautiful and evocative. Problem is the miniatures are made to the specifications that miniatures need, if a miniature is metal then it can't be too big or it will cost a fortune. If a model is plastic then it needs to fit onto a sprue (that's the name for the plastic frame that the model parts come attached to). On top of this the models basically have to at the scale needed for the wargame table. What this all means is that the representation of the Bloodthirster that most people have seen is the version of the idea of a Bloodthirster realized through a war gamer miniature. This miniature suffers from the same thing we all do, compromise.

Now, when your making a game as big and powerful as Warhammer Age of Reckoning, well you need to jump high and that means not getting drawn into just realizing the miniatures on a computer screen. What we need to do is take the churning, powerful and evocative background of Warhammer and fit it to our purpose.

So job one was to make sure that the Bloodthirster lived up to billing. The variant of the Bloodthirster that caught my eye appears in the book Tome of Corruption, it's a one page description written by a guy called Rob Schwalb. And bloody good it is too. I like a lot of the Warhammer Fantasy role playing material, it's a different flavour to the wargame and strong on imagination. So pouring over the tome of corruption description we started to sketch out how to make the Thirster everything he could be.

One of the early choices was to scale him up, I mean lets make him large, this bad boy is a core baddie, the biggest and nastiest one in the game world at launch. The second issue was not getting dragged into symmetrical design. Just because we are using a Bloodthirster in the bastion stair it does not mean we need to use them elsewhere or try to bulk up other monsters to match him in other dungeons.

Players are fine with asymmetrical design, heck I think that players respond to it, it makes the game feel more alive and less like design by numbers.

Next up the tricky question of fighting the Bloodthirster, I mean really, how can you fight something that is basically a demi-god? This lead to some guidelines and rules for the combat styles we would need, new combat systems we would have to code up and challenges to the AI systems. Nothing couldn't handle, well that's what I kept telling people.

After that we had the problem of what happens when a Bloodthirster dies, I mean he can't really die, he just gets banished from the mortal world. And that leaves a problem; if he can't die and leave a body what do you loot? Challenges, challenges. And before you get clever and start saying how we just code up a change realise that asking for a code change for one monster is setting us on a course for madness. Each and every day we have these sort of challenges, each and every day they can be solved by just requesting another bit of art, one more coding change, a few hours of re design, a new fixture for the game world. Our job, heck my job, is to make sure that we don't just request more stuff. Our schedule is packed, our resources allocated our idea bag is full. So this issue with the banishing of the Bloodthirster was systematic of the challenges of getting a big licensed MMO to market.

Anyway, we then needed to look at the lair of the thirster, where he was going to live, how he would arrive. I mean it's not good enough to just have him pop in. And what exactly would a Bloodthirster do when it is idling (that's the word we give to the animation a monster will do when left alone with no player to keep them occupied, guards will often salute, shuffle, more their weapon around and so forth.) How will the Bloodthirster make its presence known? What will be his attack styles of choice? Just how many people can it kill? And how fast? The list of questions is almost endless.

So with nothing more than a white board you get on with it, the needs of design, game play, resources, fun, excitement, suspense, capacity and a whole lot of other masters come calling. The people on the team are drawn in and asked for views and ideas as we develop our thinking and all the time I keep looking at the amount of time we have to deliver this area and shiver.

But we have cracked it and it's on it's way. What's crazy is that we have pages of this stuff still to do, lots more monsters, area, abilities, items, locations and other things to think about. It's daunting, much like designing a Bloodthirster.

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Danny

 
Oh, you said it. I just pictured walking into a black obsidian cavern with collums of skulls in brass cages and pools of flameing blood, with crags and little stone pathways winding up along the walls to alcoves packed with bodies, blood slowly running down to fill the pools. A single opening in the roof of the cave to let light in. And standing in the middle the biggest icon of fury and evil you could think of. Barely contained rage, hooves stomping, hefting and testing his axe, snarling with the lust for blood, occasionaly sateing it by dipping a hand into a pool of blood to bring it up to his maw and slurp it up with grear relish, every now and then flapping his wings to lift from the ground for a moment only to land with a thunderous impact. And the battle would be brutal, stones dislodged from the walls, rents in the earth from it's axe, sometimes sweeping his wings or axe wide to knock someone from a ledge, sending them flying and showering those on the ground with huge rocks.


Ok, I think I better stop before I write out a short novel ^_^
 
Publié par Danny le mai 28, 2007 - lundi - 10:54
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Denis

 
I think gamers seldom think about stuff like this, especially that is why it is even more interesting for me to read. The slightly different flavours of monsters - like this Bloodthirster - in each incarnation of Warhammer - RTS, boardgames, RPG...  are there for a reason. More blogs like this please!
 
Publié par Denis le mai 10, 2007 - jeudi - 9:40
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not

 
Thanks for this. This is a great look at the design process and I hope it helps others realize how hard this stuff really is.

The idea that it's model is so large it's clipping is just .... scary! Can't wait to see it in action!
 
Publié par not le mai 10, 2007 - jeudi - 9:42
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Desmond
desmond moore

 
The Bloodthirster is the WAR version of a fat kid with ADD at a buffet table.  There is NO idle pose for a Bloodthirster.  By nessecity it would need to be restrained or summoned on site at the biginning of the encounter, because there just isnt any occupying it.  It is the purest expression of carnage and bloodshed and will kill anyone within reach with the same zeal, be they holy warrior or fish monger.  Fighting the Bloodthirster should be a nightmare, noone should be able to get through the encounter without rez/running numerous times.  Imho, there should be no reward or loot for killing the Bloodthirster, because by fighting it, regardless of the outcome, it wins.  Making it an unavoidable encounter to get to the 'phat lewtz' would be acceptable, lol.  In my many years of gaming within the Warhammer worlds, the Bloodthirster always struck me as the one greater daemon that you could never talk to, though they may be as intelligent as all the rest, they just dont have time to listen with all the killing you and whatnot.
 
Publié par Desmond le mai 10, 2007 - jeudi - 9:58
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Mickey
Michael Williams

 
Heh, I think that when a bloodthirster is "idling" it should be ripping apart NPC monster which spawn somewhere. A 'thirster can never be not fighting, because it would be a disgrace to Khorne.

Also, when it dies I imagine it being sucked into the aethyr through a kind of miniature black-hole, except red, so a red-hole. That or it could explode in a shower of magical energy that it is made up of, contaminating nearby items and making them super-magical.

Then again, would a warrior priest, or indeed any upstanding citizen of the empire, use a weapon they found inside a chaos daemons lair? Surely it would be tainted with Chaos energy and be found corrupt? All these problems...I see how life can be hard.

 
Publié par Mickey le mai 11, 2007 - vendredi - 12:31
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Greg
Greg Shaffmaster

 
<P>May I say, if you're using the Tome of Corruption for inspiration, you're my favorite MMORPG makin' hero all over again.  I bought that book, and my RPG group actually tried to remove it from my possession after a month of throwing more Chaos stuff into the mix.</P><P>As for the Bloodthirster, I love the idea that one of the biggest, baddest, meanest, nastiest, most horrific combat-mongering Daemons of Chaos is making an appearance.  That makes me drool and run screaming for a corner at the same time!</P><P>Cheers, Paul!  You and Mythic are doing Tzeen...  er, I mean, the Lord's work here in creating a great game.  And if the Marketing guys say no Bloodthirster in next month's update, please kick them profusely about the shins until they relent.  Many people will cry out in agony if you tease us with this knowledge, and then don't show us the goods.  Hell, I'd settle for a screenshot of a hoof!</P>
 
Publié par Greg le mai 11, 2007 - vendredi - 3:03
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:-) Lancer
Nathan Rice

 
I have a total man-crush on you Paul.  You have to be one of the only people in the gaming world willing to tell it like it is.  Major Kudos.

I didn't even think about the miniture restrictions till now, that really is an excellent point.  With a game... why not go as big and bad as possible? I'm glad we've got people like you guys putting together this game.

Make WAR everywhere... and we will come.

 
Publié par :-) Lancer le mai 11, 2007 - vendredi - 6:02
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Denn!s
Dennis Schütte

 
I will shod its hoofs <span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">properly</span>.

Thanks for sharing these thoughts!


 
Publié par Denn!s le mai 13, 2007 - dimanche - 4:36
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Ozymandias
Morgan Reid

 
Just my $0.02 on the looting problem, we know that G. Daemons need a host to come into existence, and the host dies during the process, so could the daemon energy be syphoned out of the daemon/host when it dies through a warp-rift and leave the pitiful broken body of the host to be looted? or you could do it the EQ2 way and have a chest just fade into existence over the corpse, even if it was a deer...
 
Publié par Ozymandias le mai 13, 2007 - dimanche - 5:37
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I think loot kills a MMO. For now, I'm playing City of Heroes, where all the loot is automatically transfered into your inventory. Its predetermined who gets the "salvage" (loot) and it just really takes out of the loot drama.

I just hope War doesn't create loot drama like WOW did. That's no fun. I'd rather focus on beating up people, than "OH BOY I GET BOOTS".
 
Publié par le mai 14, 2007 - lundi - 7:44
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Ben
Ben Carpenter

 
<P>size=2>Dont think i've ever heard of some one dying by having his shins hit off but ok. Maybe you could scene the fight like the black knight vs monty python, after his feet dont work make him use his knees etc, till its a bitey-fighty.  Maybe thats a bit too far for any one to notice hay..</P><P>size=2>But seriously being a goody goody blondey elf appeals with the idea of fighting monsters like this & Malekeith and maybe feeding him tomatoes compared to I dunno... Teclis. Who wears a dress. Yaahh </P><P>size=2>Better do something cool like make the girly factions cry  before dying    !</P>
 
Publié par Ben le mai 14, 2007 - lundi - 9:56
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Rab
Robert Burns

 
WOW! Hi Paul! I want to thank you and everyone else who was a part of the creation of this game WAR. I am excited ! I want to play it now , but every great game takes years of thought like you describe on the Bloodthirster dilema in your blog. Im looking orward to bring down this The Bloodthirster you speak of. I will die trying. Thanks for everything again.
 
Publié par Rab le mai 14, 2007 - lundi - 2:01
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That's insane that it is that big! Oh man, that sounds like a really fun battle.

You mentioned that you like the fantasy role-play background/setting. I do too, I find myself enjoying it more than the 40k universe. I think that's pretty cool...not a lot of people I know (then again, I don't know many Warhammer players) enjoy the fantasy setting at all.
 
Publié par le mai 14, 2007 - lundi - 7:41
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Sean, the Legend.

 
When I run my WFRP campaign and any time I introduce a Bloodthirster to the group.. their usual first response is.. "OMG LETS GET OUT OF HERE!". Bloodthirsters in my opinion are supposed to reflect true terror and unyielding violence. I wouldn't want to see the Bloodthirster in WAR with people reacting with just a "pfft.. meh no biggie". That would just be wrong.

Anyhow, my guild I run had a discussion about Unkillable Monsters & WAR which would reflect what I would as the mentality behind the Bloodthirster.

As for moves? An earth-shattering stomp which leaves nearby people dazed (AOE) and the person being stomped in a world of hurt. Giant cleave with the BT's axe (melee AOE + group knockback). The Bloodthirster should bring a world of pain to everyone fighting it, it shouldn't be suttle, it shouldn't be mundane. I want to see the thing sail the road of blood and slaughter.

As for it dying? Just make it so a hole opens up beneath it and it gets pulled down into the underworld. It's a fitting end to the epic daemon, doesn't have to be killed, just has to have a dramatic ending.

As for loot? Just make a chest behind him, the only way that thing opens is if the BT is banished. Doesn't have to have loot necessarily on him.

On a sidenote, when I think about the bloodthirster, I think about Lord Kazzak Does Stormwind yes.. yes.. I know a WoW reference, but it's fitting. A wake of bloodshed behind the guy. The GM's had to correct it and put a leash on him, but in WAR.. I would like to see something just as destructive coming from that Bloodthirster.

 
Publié par Sean, the Legend. le mai 15, 2007 - mardi - 10:52
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Kieran

 
<P>death animation (aka leaving a corpse to loot)</P><P> </P><P>two quick ideas, both focusing on the idea of possession.</P><P> </P><P>I not sure about warhammer, but in 40k you could use normal humans as a host for greater daemons; once the right circumstances were met the body would would become that of the daemon (i.e swell up, grow extra limbs, etc.).</P><P> </P><P> </P><P>how about the reverse of possesion happening?</P><P> </P><P>either the bloodthirster shrinks down and morphs into a human in a loincloth</P><P> </P><P>or if the bones must stay the same size, add the bones of a normal human skeleton, have the death animation of the berserker move the bloodthirster's models bones move underneath the world (or high in the sky above clipping), but the normally concealed (within the bloodthirster's bulk) human skeleton's bones could stay on the world's surface...  perhaps instead of a human skeleton a treasure chest?</P><P> </P><P>or maybe the bloodthirsters more physical items; its clothes, axe and whip, could remain?</P><P> </P><P>Perhaps part of the bloodthirster's AI script could have that when it dies it spawns a chest of treasure?</P><P> </P><P>lots of solutions....  rubbish admitedly, but maybe a start? </P>
 
Publié par Kieran le mai 16, 2007 - mercredi - 1:14
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Panda Pirate
Robert Farns

 
<P>[img]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5654/renderofbloodthirsteriimw2.jpg[/img]</P><P>- Flokgrot of WAR-RvR.net ;)</P>
 
Publié par Panda Pirate le mai 18, 2007 - vendredi - 1:41
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Vitamin-T
Tanner Barrington

 
That Is Sweet, Can't Wait To Do Battle With A Huge Bloodthirster!
 
Publié par Vitamin-T le mai 18, 2007 - vendredi - 8:32
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This is Joel.

 
<P>You could always have the thirster die and fall over or whatever. Then have it start to decay rapidly over like say a 10 minute period. Let the bones remain for a while say like up to 15 minutes. or longer. </P><P>Kinda like he dies and a wind or something blows over him and he starts melting into the realm of chaos...i dunno how to explain it lol. Maby you see what i mean? i dunno just my 2 cents. </P><P> </P><P>It would be a damn cool animation tho. </P>
 
Publié par This is Joel. le mai 20, 2007 - dimanche - 6:32
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