In Conversation with…..Nerm from Shiva Soundsystem

We had the pleasure of speaking to the founder, producer and dj of the UK collective Shiva Soundsystem.  Opinionated, well-spoken and humorous at the same time, here's what he had to say.  Enjoy!

Where in the UK are you from and from how early on were you involved in music?

I was born in the late seventies in a place called Birmingham which is about 150 miles away from London and fell into music within a number of bands, the main one being Charged which was an electronic punk band that was signed to a record label called Nation Records.  Nation Records' main act was Fun-da-mental and they also had Asian Dub Foundation.  They released Talvin Singh's first work, as well as ADF's and Joi's first albums.  So Charged was in a good sort of start-off label with Nation Records.

What did you play when you were in Charged?

Nothing at all.  I was mainly the front man:  got crowds hyped, kicked our guitarist in the face, threw up at every gig.  I was young then so it was a lot of fun.

That's awesome..

Yeah, no it was a load of fun, kind of like Maxim from the Prodigy, but nowhere near as good as Maxim.

When did the move to London occur and how did Shiva Soundsystem come about?

At right about 1998-1999, I moved to London.  As well as touring with Charged all over the world, I was also dj'ing (I've sort've been dj'ing from the age of 16 with one of my earlier residencies at Ministry of Sound in Birmingham, now closed).  Anyhow, so the idea was, I was dj'ing across the world as well as being in Charged and ran into these guys in London called Swaraj which was a club night set up in a sense to pick up the reigns of Anokha when they went on sabbatical in 1998 from London's Blue Note Club.  So Swaraj was the entity that continued to take me around the world as a dj.  Then in about 2000 the idea was to combine the energy of a live band a la Charged with the atmosphere of a club gig (like the kind of stuff I did with Swaraj) and that's where Shiva Soundsystem was born.  Shiva Soundsystem was about combining musicians in my dj sets and from there it grew into a band and then from a band into an organization. It just grew organically and is now a strong collective in east London with designers, musicians, and producers.  It's actually had quite a trajectory over a short period of time considering it's only been going on for about seven years now.

Yeah, on your website there are quite a few members in the crew.  Had members accumulated by chance or was that something you'd intended on, and are there different members representing Shiva Soundsystem in various places?

It all started very organically as I said.  Initially we set off to create an alternative representation of 'asian-ness' itself in Britain and that over the years has just evolved into being an alternative representation of Britain itself.  I think calling Shiva Soundsystem asian music is kind of limiting; we just do good underground music.  The main passion of everyone in the crew seems to be the music that the UK gave birth to, whether it's alternative rock such as punk or whether it's alternative dance like drum n bass or breakbeat.  So I think with that evolution and change, the people that've been attracted to this idea are the people you see on the website.  It hasn't been planned out that we need this person or that person; it just kind of happened.  Each person has their strengths as well as his/her ideas in which they feel Shiva Soundystem is a kind of petri dish where these ideas can grow and expand.

Do you think being labeled asian has limited your listenership?

No and we've never consciously called ourselves just asian.  I think the realization that we were actually just British came when the BBC did a documentary at our warehouse  The warehouse was this 4,000 square feet of space we had that converted into rooms, offices and studios, and it occurred to me there that various people in the crew were from all over the world with different colors and races.  They weren't there because of any affinity to asian or Indian culture; they were there because of the vibe and what we were trying to do as opposed to any Indophilic tendencies.

The name is Shiva Soundsystem however…

Yeah, sure.

So you do take references from Indian elements?

Sure, but the thing is artists generally will always produce art that has themselves in it.  I think whatever your race is, it's inherently a part of you and that just comes out in your art.  There's no need to overstate it; it'll just be there anyways.  Art's about the individual and the individual is who they are.  So there are reasons for the name which I came up with a few years ago.  I'm really into various different philosophies all over the world.  I do want to get this straight though, we're not a religious organization and we're not some sort of fundamentalist Hindu outfit or anything like that at all.  The idea like I said before was to challenge perceptions in society of what brown people could achieve. To me, challenging conservative view points of asians in society or what the typical asian stands for, or even to an extent asian music and what that meant was the initial aim.  Basically, the initial aim was:  the stuff out there doesn't really speak to me or my friends so let's try and do something that we'll enjoy.  So with reading ancient texts, old stories and legends, the idea was that Shiva represents being outside of society and in a way blurring what's accepted and what isn't.  Reading back to the old scriptures really intrigued me and being brought up in a fairly conservative Hindu family, it was quite an eye-opener and interesting to see something from a different perspective.  That's what it meant to me personally.  For everyone else in the crew, I think it's just about open-mindedness and about experimenting in new ways.  I think that with us as well, I also want to get this across, is that we're not a bunch of hippies; we're punks through and through.

Your foundation lies in punk music then?

Yeah man, we're Britain and the thing is, not necessarily punk in terms of the sonic qualities but the attitude.  Definitely punk.

You mentioned earlier there was a certain part of asian music that wasn't speaking to you or you weren't satisfied with.  What was that?

Well in Britain, in around about 2003, there was a huge push for asian culture to be accepted in mainstream society and that was predominantly through Bollywood with the opening of Bombay Dreams and also through a lot of asian urban music like RnB and hip-hop.  This was through the BBC's funding of the station that I'm now on, the BBC Asian Network and Radio One which gave Bobby Friction and Nihal a show.  To me these were great leaps forward:  the Asian Network going national had actually responded to the initial fears I had and then given me a job, which is really nice.  The fears I had then were the fact that asian music across the whole of Britain (and the rest of the world in fact), in terms of all the media, seemed to just be this urban or Bollywood manifestation.  To me there was a lot more than that.  That was my gripe from that period.  I think there still is a lot more than that, but it's taken on a different form now.  I think it's much more (without sounding too vague and hippie-like cos you know I hate that) of a universal underground vibe; it's just punk at the end of the day. 

So you were originally a part of the group of people that were considered the pioneers of the asian sound in London?

Not really, the pioneers came way before.  I don't know whether having pictures in the paper or being on tv or radio actually lead to record sales or longevity; I don't think it does.  I think that's part of the problem.  As I said, in 2003, when there was this drive for making asian people more mainstream, the effect it had was that a few artists like Jay Sean and Rishi Rich got decent record deals.  But now, no one has a deal.  The only asian artist with a major record label deal at the moment is Nitin Sawhney.  Everyone else is either independent or has been dropped.  And I think that's a shame because what was sold in 2003-2005 was this idea of pop and I think there was more of a depth that could've been brought forward.  If we're going to make this long-lasting, then whatever genre you're in, you're going to have to be the best in that genre.  If you're brown and making punk, if you're brown and making drum n bass or breakbeat or if you're brown and making pop or RnB, you've got to compare yourself to the best in that field and not just use your color as some sort of handicap.  That's the basic gripe I have you know.  In a way the whole playing field's gone up a level where now you're brown and you've got your token radio stations to have your tracks played on, which is rubbish man.  If the quality's good it should be played everywhere.

Did the drive for making asian people more mainstream in 2003 carry any negative effect with it?

No, it just did something different.  It created a lot more awareness about certain issues that you have when you're an immigrant in a country.  When you're first-generation or second-generation, you've always got this weird thing that's there.  So it got rid of that for a while.  And heck it sold a few records, it made a few people some money and you know it created a whole new scene pretty much.  So it's never a bad thing.  It's not something I particularly enjoyed or liked.  Whether I play it at one of my club nights is a different story.

Do you feel that the term asian underground is a misnomer then?

No, it was great.  That period in my mind was from 1995-1999.  There's a website called www.ethnotechno.com and there's an interview on there with Mukul who was one of the guys with Anokha in the early days and he's got a great quote that I really loved which made a lot of sense.  He says the asian underground was a great marketing term and it gave everyone a name to what was going on, but if you went to Anokha the guests were people from all over the place like Bjork, Sun-ra and later people like Finley Quaye who'd jump on the mic, and they weren't asian.  So it was just a banner for good alternative music.  Also, at that point you had things like Ninja Tune coming up and Metalheadz that were creating waves in the drum n bass scene.  It was a fantastic time in London!  I actually feel the same vibes happening in India right now which really excites me.  But yeah, I think the asian underground thing was a fantastic marketing tool.  It's come, it's served its purpose and it's gone.  It's just something different now.

You were doing some nights at Herbal alongside members of Metalheadz and Fabio & Grooverider.  How receptive were they to your music?

I think that people were aware of it, but I don't think they really gave a shit yet.  I think we've really got to get the production level's up on everything we do across the scene and I think the person in my opinion that's come closest to it is D-code from my crew.  I'm not just being biased, I'm saying that honestly.  His production stands up to anyone on Andy C.'s record label or anyone from a big drum n bass record label; I think D could take them on and win basically.  That's great for us, it's great for D, but there needs to be more producers like that and I think people aren't as receptive because there's a lot of crap being produced.  I mean a few years ago, I think in the nineties everyone was a dj, and now everyone's a producer.  Unfortunately that's great to a degree cos then everyone's creative, but there's so much crap produced it's unreal. I think as a radio dj for the Asian Network, there's a certain amount of responsibility on my head, as well as my peers like Bobby Friction and Pathaan to sort of filter out the not so well produced tracks and get to the good stuff, you know what I mean?  I think it's a slow battle; it's an uphill sort of struggle, but we're getting there slowly.  There are some other great producers that you guys have got in the states like Saad Chishty, Sharmaji, and Jay Dabhi who are all producing some great stuff.  But again I think that we're at sort of a cusp of collectively breaking through this production barrier and getting really, really good which is what we need to do as artists, brown or otherwise.  We've just got to get really, really good so we can sell records and make this not just a flash in the pan or not just something that's tokenistic.

What's unique about Shiva Soundsystem?  What kind of sound sets Shiva Soundsystem apart?

Well I'd like to think creatively you'll just be able to tell that it's from us or an affiliate.  There's a certain vibe. The design and the presentation is just as important to us as the sound.  If you can feel and see the punk coming through then we've done our job. 

Which show or crowd has left you with the most vivid memory?

Twice in Bombay:  the first time with Swaraj and the second time with Shiva Soundsystem.  They were just amazing, amazing gigs.  Being able to take an odd 2000 people from the familiar to the unfamiliar and getting away with it was fantastic.  Both those gigs were five years apart so it was great.  Obviously playing festivals like Glastonbury was amazing too.  The figures get bigger and bigger; everytime I hear the figures it's gone up from 10,000 to 20,000.  Then the last ever Charged gig was phenomenal at a festival in Serbia called Exit.  It was us, Fun-Da-Mental and Asian Dub Foundation headlining the festival, and that was just ridiculous-it was people as far as the eye can see, video screens, every move you make everyone's screaming, stage dives and stuff-it was great.  So those are sort of the ones that I'll tell the grandkids about. 

After reading your blog, it seems as if your experiences in India were quite intense and you found yourself consumed by the country.  You said at one point you were brought to tears.  That being said, we feel like Shiva Soundsystem is a union of traditional Indian elements with music in the UK that shaped you.  Why do you feel there is essentially a gathering of artists abroad that happen to tie these two things together?  Is it an innate need to try to reconnect with or explore their identities?

I think that's done and dusted.  I think we all know who we are.  I think everyone's really comfortable with who they are now.  I think those questions were something that came up in the nineties and I think we've answered them very succinctly now to ourselves if not anyone else.  I think Shiva Soundsystem doesn't have to produce stuff with Indian or asian sounds in it.  Music from us will be music from us and whatever ethnicity is involved with the production doesn't really matter.  With regards to being moved to tears in India, it's just because I'm a big pussy really; that was Karsh playing live and Karsh's stuff is incredible.  A lot of his music just hits the right buttons to make me break down into floods of tears.  But this whole global thing, as I said, artists are just artists.  They'll make music or art this part of themselves and it's all about self-expression.  So if their background is asian or has those kind of influences, then it will come through.  On the other extreme, even if it isn't part of their background and they just love the sound, for example with people like Enduser who's a fantastic producer but is white and comes up with some amazing grind-core stuff with Indian samples, it doesn't really matter as long as the music's good.  I also think all music has the power to move you to tears or has the power to make you laugh or cry.  I think it's just about good quality music and at the end of the day it's just good art.

You've also interviewed for Mtv India.  How did that come about?

Through buddies over at Mtv in India.  There are some really progressive cats over in India in terms of producers that are actually in Bollywood and people that are in tv or radio that feel the same vibe.  Bombay now feels like nineties London to me; the kind of excitement that happened in nineties London.  Cos to be honest with you what happened in nineties London was the Criminal Justice Act came in and shut down all these raves that were happening in the countryside which turned clubbing into an industry.  That suddenly lead to signings by record labels, then in 1995-1996 we had releases from Tricky, Portishead, Massive Attack as well as albums from Leftfield and The Chemical Brothers.  We had some great stuff in the mid-nineties that'd come out and really changed the face of music.  Before that you only got manufactured pop in record stores really, and rock.  You never got these niche sounding records in the mainstream and that's what I mean by the atmosphere.  I think India's actually ahead of Britain in a lot of ways musically.  Something's about to pop over there in India that's going to make the underground go mainstream and make people more open-minded, more receptive to different stuff and I guess that has to do with economic prosperity.  When people are shoveled commercial crap most of the time and then when they've got the means to experience different things, they'll want to experience more different things you know. 

According to you, is there any artist with the asian sound that crossed all cultures and genres?

The Prodigy, Basement Jaxx, Groove Armada.  Nah, I'm joking.  Yeah, so brown artist crossing over completely, entirely…yeah I mean people have been doing that since the seventies you know.  Biddu did it with Kung Fu Fighting!  They've always existed.  I think, as I said, all those great electronic acts that I've mentioned earlier have really built more bridges than a lot of brown people have; which I don't know is a good thing or a bad thing, its just a fact.  So let's see what happens in the next few years, eh?

How do you feel about Bollywood?  In your blog, you mentioned the Don and how Midival Punditz and Funcinternational had contributed to the soundtrack.

Bollywood is interesting.  It's a test of the mainstream.  I like some of it.  I hate some of it.  It's nice to see your buddies on soundtracks do good music and it's nice to hear.  It's nice to see the production value of Bollywood films going up.  That's really, really good.  The days of sort of seventies rip-offs seem to be over.  Even the commercial aspects of Bollywood or the films that appeal to families have really high production value now.  So that's great.  And again Indian cinema is art.  I'm with Amitabhji when he describes it as Indian cinema cos there are some fantastic films.  There are a ton of great films you know.  Not just the kind of song and dance kind of...I think we've got over that sort of phase that was in the nineties, you know, from Bollywood that was just like-what is this rubbish??

You've been to Pune, Delhi, Bombay and other places in India.  Do you recommend any must see places in any particular city?

The city I know most about is Bombay and that's kind of my home away from home.  My experiences in all these cities aren't really normal cos I'm with people that I know.  In Delhi, I was with the Punditz, Karsh, Jalebee Cartel and Jayanth.  Like I wrote on the BBC blog, it's not a real experience cos you just go from an airport to a car to hotel to a gig back to an airport.  So, there's obviously loads of places.  For example, in Delhi there's Elevate and Ministry of Sound's opening up there, in fact its opened there already.  In Bombay there is a place called Zenzei which is in Bandra, which is an awesome place.  It's a bar that's got a sort of no commercial policy which is where we always go and hang out.  And then every year of course there are the sort of parties that these drinks companies put on like Smirnoff which book us to play.  So that's where we can get away with, you know, one of the best gigs of my life which was the gig we did last November for Smirnoff in India.  Yeah there's a ton of stuff happening, and there's a load of amazing producers out there. 

Speaking of, what are you?  Punjabi, etc?

I'm a Guju.

Is Nerm short for something?

My real name is Nirmesh.  Nirmesh, when you're in a western school, anglicized becomes Nerm.  So it just kind of grew out of a nickname I've had since I was four.

You've done quite a lot, gone to many places and have your own show Electro East at the moment on the BBC Asian Network.  What more are you looking forward to?

There's loads more!  There's so much more to come.  I don't think we've really achieved that much.  You asked something before about what separates Shiva Soundsystem from everyone else and I guess to go back to that in a way is that, we're really cool about cool stuff.  We try and stay humble about stuff; if we've done something we move on quickly to the next thing.  So, I don't really think we've done that much.  I think there's a lot more to do in terms of releasing more material.  I mean we've released one single in 5 years and there's a reason for that you know.  There's a lot more coming basically, and there's a lot more to achieve.

Who do you think is the future?  3 artists…

D-code

Audio Dakoos

Aziz Ibrahim   

(+ Temple & Rock ID)

And now on a completely random and lighthearted note.  We're going to throw a few questions at you and you tell us the first thing that comes to you…

Samosay or fish n chips?                                              

Samosay

Top 3 Amitabh films?

Sholay, Black, Kabhi Kabhi

Favorite Hindi/Punjabi/Gujurati/etc. phrase?                 

*insert expletive and cheesy laughter from nibu* 

Apache Indian or Ali G?

Apache Indian man, clearly.  I used to steal his tapes when I was 15.

Old school or current Bollywood?

Old school definitely.  Black and White stuff was the best.  Raj Kapoor all the way.

Asha Bhosle or Lata Mangeshkar?

Lataaa! Simply because I've met her.  But then Asha Bhosle did sing on my birthday.  Not really.  It was on my birthday and I saw her sing.  It wasn't directly to me.  Actually, I don't know, that's a close one.  They're sisters and I don't want to get into any sibling rivalry so no, I'm going to pass on that actually.

Yoda or yoga? Yoda man.  Yoda rules.

I also want to big up my US crew:  Phanita, DK, Sank, Dhruva, Janaka, Maneesh, Zakhm, Karsh, Chiraag, Franky, Sitar, Frederique and anyone I've played for or me while out in the states . 

You can catch Nerm's weekly radio show Electro East at:  www.bbc.co.uk/asiannetwork/electroeast  To get music to him for his radio show, write to:  electroeast@bbc.co.uk  Also, you can check out the Shiva Soundsystem website at: www.shivasoundsystem.co.uk                                     

Interview by:  hana & nibu