The United States was number one when we paid doctors directly. The more layers of bureaucracy we add, the more expensive health care becomes and the lower we slip in the rankings.

As Obama said last Wednesday, Medicare and Medicaid have failed. When something fails, we here in Wisconsin don't expand it. If folks in California want to expand their Socialist programs, more power to them, but we won't be joining you.

nontaxpayer.org
 

The only reason Medicare is a dismal failure is because the funds for it cannot be syphoned into any other program.  It is literally money our government cannot spend.  We pay into Medicare all of our lives.  If you receive a Social Security check, Medicare is taken out of it every month.  Then there are oversight committees that and more and more restrictions on what Medicare will pay so the money is literally piling up that the government cannot access.
 

Good.

 

I agree, it is shameful that we are number 37. This is shocking and appalling. I don't have insurance at all, cannot pay for anything, generally don't go to the doctor until it is either too much to bear, or not at all. I do not make enough income to support paying for doctor care.
 

That is very sad to hear, that you can..t afford  insurance, Crystal. I hope there will be a solution soon so that even you with a low income can afford medical care.
Take care
Liane

 

thank you so much for your kind words, liane. God bless!
 

I love that video!  What a find!  Number 37?  As far as I am concerned we should be number 73.  If the government can spend billions of dollars on sending our people to war and draining the ecomomy at the same time, why not help those who can't get regular health insurance?  A number of the nations on that video were in Europe, and in my opinion that stands true.  European people are much more healthier than us...with using public transportation versus cars, eating healthier, not stressing out over every little thing, and great health care, it's not a mystery as to why alot of people here are very unhealthy.  We eat ourselves to an early grave, drive most of the time, do not exercise, and with NO INSURANCE, people give up on going to the doctor.  Now, I am not saying that doctors are always right.  I am am a believer of natural remedies, exercise, meditation, etc., but if I have a concern, I will go and get an opinion.  Money is the main subject here, and as I have said before, the average person cannot get health insurance (or insurance at an affordable rate) due to the greed of big business.   If everyone had health care, we all could start taking care of ourselves, inside and out.   When we are healthy and feel good, things flow well in society. 
 

What's in a number? It's interesting comparing countries with 200-300 million to those with less than 10 million. (Cyprus? Uh, okay. No offense to any Cypriots on the blog, but it hardly seems like apples to apples. I'm one of those who has to read the citations in the index of a report before I swallow it whole.) And blaming it on military spending doesn't work, either. If all the countries on the list had to provide for their own defense as well as, say, uh, nearly every other industrialized nation in the world for the last 60 years, they might not have had the money to pay for their far superior health care systems (ahem.) But dude wrote a catchy song. Don't worry. I'll gladly pony up my few dollars soon enough. As will every teatotaler out there. I'm not one of them, but you're erroneously assuming that all those tea-ed off people have no ideas of their own or don't support other plan(s). Whether we agree with them or not, they've started a grassroots movement, and Obama and Congress would be foolish to ignore it. It's not the fact of the money; it's how it's spent. We need to put enough checks and balances into health care reform to ensure its success. I rather like the idea of doing it piecemeal -- one bill to cover the uninsured, another for tort reform, another for Medicare/Medicaid, etc. (Oh, and dude also spelled Israel wrong. And we all know he sees spelling as a clear barometer of intelligence. Just saying: if you're gonna make the point, run it through spellcheck, ok?) Now, if I can only get that song out of my head...[banging head on desk]

 

Good answer, Mary...I noticed the "Isreal/Israel" blooper too. You made an excellent point...many of the countries on that list don't have the military/defense budget that we have...why? Because a big evil leviathan of a nation is helping them...who could it be??? I also love, love, love your idea of making separate bills for each change needed...how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

 

Huge sigh!  To start off with, this is information that is almost a decade old. Move on to the fact the WHO discontinued doing the study due to the myriad of variables.  Now you want to compare our healthcare to those of other countries.  Ok, in Canada, you can go to the pharmacy and legally purchase acetaminophen with codeine, which in the US is a controlled narcotic. Actually, codiene is the drug of choice in most countries due to the fact that is it so cheap to produce.  There isn't another country in the world that has the strict guidelines that America has to adhere to.  There are millions of cheaper procedures in other countries because the companies inventing, producing and marketing these procedures and medications, once again, don't have to adhere to the USFDA. That is primarily why they are not authorized here in the US.  There is not a country in the world that is as stringently regulated as the United States. So, what do we do?  Do we lower our standards to compete with these other countries?

So, we pass HR 676 or HR 3200 which gives us single payer health care, is that really going to cut the cost of healthcare? Are single payer plans going to stop the pharmaceutical companies from charging $100/pill for some life saving medication? Or medical supply companies from charging millions for technology that will be obsolete long before it is paid for, yet still integrated into our healthcare costs. I think in order to make single payer healthcare work is to eliminate ALL of the fat cats.  The fat cat CEO's of the Insurance companies, of the FDA, and of the Research and Developement companies.   R & D companies that will find a way to treat cancer, the FDA doesn't approve it, they sell it to another country at a reduced cost, while increasing the cost of one of the treatments that the FDA did approve.  Getting rid of the Insurance companies is just part of the problem, and passing either of these resolutions is like putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound. Why can't these modern, intelligent, educated men and women come up with a plan that treats the whole problem, not just a few symptoms?  Nothing about the whole argument for single payer health care passes the common sense test.

I am all for capitalism, if you can get somebody to pay 400 times what it cost you to produce, more power to you, but don't whine when they wisen up and find somebody else that will provide the same thing at a cheaper cost. But whine they will, and instead of firing the high paid screw-ups at the top, they will fire the hard working low paid person at the bottom, then beg for welfare when that doesn't work. On that note, I will thank you for your tollerance and openmindedness that allows me to get on my "Common Sense" soap box.
 

Excellent response Lisa.

 

Thank you so much for your encouragement and support Jo.  I try to keep it real.  You would not believe how long it takes me to compose one of these responses.  I have never been a shoot from the hip kind of debater, but I do love a good debate. People constantly amaze me.  I am surprised at how so many take any kind of disagreement personally, it totally boggles my mind. 
 

You're welcome Lisa...check your "in box". Takes me a while to post these replies too...you don't want to see what I've written and deleted before I hit "submit". It's not pretty.

 

Actually very funny clip...even more so when you notice that the guy makes fun of the spelling on signs(youth in asia..giggle..you mean us going there or them coming here?), then shows a slide with "Israel" spelled wrong!! Again, more stereotyping of "my kind", but in context it was funny.
  Now..the real story. I will agree with you 100% that the health care system in America is broken(remember, I'm a patient AND a provider). We absolutely need to reform this PROPERLY and put some regulations on the insurance mafia(and it will get worse if we are forced by mandate to buy it...for me, in NJ, it's cheaper to pay the fine than to buy coverage). We need to make sure that American CITIZENS(operative word) can get basic care affordably(meaning they need to pay something, not nothing) and be protected from financial ruin in the event of a catastrophic illness.
 That said...those WHO rankings are "lies, damned lies, and statistics". They are skewed by a rating system whose focus is "fairness". A country where 100% of the people get mediocre care is ranked higher than a nation where 80% of the people get excellent care and 20% get good care. It also considers the amount of income used for health care, so a nation with single-payer socialized care 'looks better' on paper than one where private insurance is purchased, because the citizens break out their wallet less then we do(they also pay a higher tax rate). If the indicator was "percentage of tax dollars used for health care"...we'd be number one! We pay less!! NOT. They even rank things such as the 'quality of linens' in hospitals.
  Also, these rankings use death rates as an indicator of health...including car accidents, murders etc. Being killed in a car accident shows NOTHING about the quality of your health care! We have more cars than other nations...of course more people die in car accidents. Sadly, we are also less active, more obese, have the "American diet", etc etc etc....all of which have no bearing on how good your health insurance is.
  The infant mortality rate...that's a big one. Even the UN admits that the USA is the only country who actually follows the WHO guidelines. We have sophisticated means of allowing very premature infants to be born alive, and often they do not survive the first year. Other nations, those babies would have died in utero(sometimes mommy too) and not counted as a 'live birth' in the first place, or been stillborn. Of course our infant mortality rates are higher when we are caring for infants born at 28 weeks or less!
  As I said, we need to fix this...not the health care itself, but ensuring access to it. No good to have state-of-the-art excellent care, if it's a luxury for the wealthy or those who work for big businesses with good insurance. I find it ironic that most of those countries #1-36, come HERE when the going gets rough. King Hussein of Jordan had cancer...and could have gone "local" to Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia(you know, where they rank so high)...and instead he came here. Lather, rinse, repeat for other foreign dignitaries.
 

 

Jo
 your comment is very informative as such , but again you get very defensive when something negative is said about the US generally. e.g. the WHO report , but you must admit that most of the countries mentioned DO have a reasonable health system certainly affordable for the individual , Also there again that dignitaries like King Hussein etc went to the US, is a always that money can "cure all" and at that time there were and still are specialized clinics available in the US.These days Americans come to Europe for instance , so even medicine has gone global.
I..m not convinced 80 % Americans get excellent care and 20% good care when one hears 45,000000 are without insurance.But that is not the point. The point is to get payable insurance for all Americans.
Although the German system isn..t perfect anymore (it was abused many years)it still supplies good care when needed. O f course we moan, but on  world ranking, on a high niveau. Because of the exorbetant rises in medical costs, some items aren..t covered 100%anymore such as dentures, reading glasses and things like massages and  visits to  Spas has been shortened from 4weeks to 3 weeks.After an illness.
As of Jan. 2009 everyone who is compulsary insured i.e up to an income of I think around €30.000 PA pays 14.9% per month, pensioners included. One can choose a public insurance company or  a so called Trade insurance company. These were founded according to the job one had in the past , but are now available to everyone.For instance Companies  like Siemens, VW and other large companies.People above this €30,000 levy insure themselves privat according to income and packages they take.
At present here is a discussion about a 2nd class medicine because Doctors tend to prefer to have private patients, but witout the "Public" patient they couldn..t exist either!! Sometimes one has to wait 6 weeks to see a specialist, if it isn..t emergency.
I have recently had 2 very expensive operations, and my treatment doesn..t end here,as I have a pacemaker implanted which costs around US$ 2500 according to the model one has implanted ( not for the heart)and that will need continueous observation until I leave this World.
I think that is a rather good service from a public health service and not available in some of countries  in the list  this blog is about. Incidentally the gadget I have is from a  VERY big company in Minnesota which had no problems with the FDA  as I assume the company is bringing revenue into the country. I don..t think they had a recession!!!.
Joke by side , because of this I definitely have a better quallity of life than I had before, so bless America for it..s great medical technololy.
I love sparring with you LOL and as always no offense meant!! Liane


 

Liane, thanks for your input. There are many things wrong with our country, and health care is a BIG one. Yes, I get very defensive when our country is criticized by nations who wouldn't be where they are today without us(and if  you think I'm bad...don't get Figgie started!! LOL!). Many of the countries who are telling us who to vote for, how to run things, what kind of health care we should have....just 60 years ago were pretty darned glad to see an American flag on a uniform. I know you appreciate that, so I'm not speaking to you personally. It is more the younger generation, who only know a world of freedom and health...bought with the blood of soldiers from other nations who came to help and never went home. Now there is an American military presence in many parts of the world, and those nations have a small defense budget because of it. I also realize there are countries who wish our bases and posts would pack up and get the heck out, so it's a double-edged sword. Sigh.
  But, yes...I'm bothered by the WHO statistics and the way they are twisted to sell this plan. Oh...and the %s I used in my post, were just hypothetical...I didn't mean to insinuate that 80%/20% was America's standing. Sorry about that. Also, the 45million without insurance? Many of them are illegal aliens, are folks who qualify for medicaid(government care for the poor) but haven't bothered to apply, and people who make $75000+ per year but CHOSE not to have insurance. Some people are just willing to take the risk as they are young and healthy, some are very wealthy and have no financial issues with getting the care they would need, and lots of others live in a big house with 2 new cars, an in-ground pool, big screen tvs, satellite dishes and nice vacations...but cry "poverty" about insurance. In other words, they are choosing to spend the money they make on other things.
    The last stats I heard were that there are 12 million people who don't fit the above...working poor who make too much for aid but not enough to begin to make ends meet and those who have a pre-existing condition that makes them 'uninsurable'. We CAN and SHOULD help those people, and it's a much more manageable number. Even easier if we stop giving free care to people with no identification in our emergency rooms, and cull the deadbeats out of the welfare system who are defrauding their fellow citizens.
    The US, as I've said and Janice mentioned in a previous blog, has a unique problem in that we have MILLIONS of people who have walked into our country with no documentation and are walking from the border to the hospital. It makes a big drain on our system(and also skews those "health care dollars spent per capita" numbers at WHO). We can't continue to be benevolent there, and be filleted and fried in oil because we can't take care of our own citizens. Perhaps it is Mexico who should be answering these questions? I could be wrong, but I also think that America has a significantly large population of those with an entitlement mentality that doesn't exist in other nations. It exists everywhere, but not to the extent that it does here. We have families who have been supported by their fellow citizens for generations, taking a lot without ever contributing. Both of those things make a big financial burden on the hard-working, honest, tax-paying citizens who are stretched beyond their limit.

 

Thanks for your answer. However I think you are a bit unfair saying that lots of countries weren..t there today if it wasn..t for the US.That again is being a bit self centered.
Yes for instance Germany wouldn..t be where it is today , but the  US wasn..t that altruistic (no state is)not to eventually see a potential in the country they are helping and braindrained Germany of its intellectuals e.g von Braun , without him there would be no Nasa today. The list would be too long to mention them all.As for Australlia sure, the US helped in the Pacific war , but like most of the commitments the US had were part s of alliances and vice versa Australia took part in the Vietnam War.Yes the Americans are in Australia but only for their own strategic use.Also for instance Australians fought in WWII in EUROPE , Africa and the Middle East and gave their lives for freedom, and sadly in the Middle East there is still no peace Israel/ Palastine but the Aussies don..t winge over the good they did, in fact they eventually took their enemies as migrants.
I can only speak of the countries I know, but I also know there are countries which rely on the US. Of course this all costs , but to me that is no excuse to veto a health system which would benefit all.
Not only the US has millions of immigrants and illegal people .  and I understand your anger, about generations of a family that have lived on the welfare system all their lives, and the hard working population have to pay for it all. Not all though on welfare are there because they want to be ,the financial crisis has proven this.
I do also agree with you that many people aren..t interested in health insurance because they don..t think it is necessary or prefer a certain lifestyle  , that is their choice certainly , but let something go wrong.This I daresay is the " American way of life" as many call it.
You have informed me of something I didn..t know , that children can be insured if their parents fill out certain forms.In other words if the parents don..t do this the kids go without!Ok there will always be people who can..t get their a...s off the couch to do this, which is sad enough .

I don..t think non Americans  are truly telling the US what they should do in this issue or any other, but then again hasn..t the US in the past often tried to impose their views on other countries-..

I can..t really understand how so many people can live illegally in the US. Is there no registration of address  or at at least a sort of an ID card if they need say healthcare even in a hospital?Or are many protected by someone like the factory owner in Wisconsin a few ago who kept these people in unworthy conditions until someone whistled on him.I think this sort of thing is another aspect  of illegal immigrants who most of all I daresay just want to earn a living.






 

I am not going to beat a dead horse, Jo did a wonderful job in her response.  My response it to only one of your statement.  The majority of Americans are not opposing health care reform, we just want it done right.  It really is the spin of liberal media saying that we don't want health care at all, just because we don't want the slop they are trying to shove down our throats.  Please give us something that makes sense and will actually work. 
 

liane - it is really quite easy for many of them to live here illegally.  It is not that difficult to buy fake ID's.  Not only do we have illegals, we also have criminals who have discovered a growing market for their skills.  These criminals are making a fortune from their skills which are paid for "under the table".    Those with "under the table" income, of course do not pay taxes.  All this creates a DOMINO EFFECT - the illegals come in, get fake papers, use those fake papers to get a drivers license, get hospital care, rent apts., take advantage of our gov. funded programs and even get jobs (if they really want legitament work and there are many that really do but why can't they do it the legal way?) BUT there are many that don't want to work.  The gang problem here is getting progressively worse and many of them are here illegally.  You can bet the majority of these people pay no taxes what-so-ever.  All in all, this is a VERY lucrative business and none of them pays taxes so the rest of us have to pay for all this.  Sorry - I think I'm beginning to rant.
 

Liane, you said: "I can..t really understand how so many people can live illegally in the US. Is there no registration of address  or at at least a sort of an ID card if they need say healthcare even in a hospital?Or are many protected by someone like the factory owner in Wisconsin a few ago who kept these people in unworthy conditions until someone whistled on him.I think this sort of thing is another aspect  of illegal immigrants who most of all I daresay just want to earn a living."

Please...there's the $64000 question!! Nope...no ID, no registration, nothing. There is even a black market for fake id's, social security numbers, etc. The "patient" goes to the hospital, gives an address, then the bill comes back to the hospital "no such person at this address". They walk in, say they have no insurance and no money, and get care. I guess it's against their 'civil rights' to demand proof.
 And yes, the illegals are being used and abused here. It is slave labor, and the government doesn't penalize those who hire them. They work for pennies, in whatever conditions the 'employer du jour' has...and have no rights because they'll be deported. Yes, they are desperate and want to work(we have citizens here who won't do THAT), but there are legal avenues to pursue to come here. They do not pay taxes into the system, yet get benefits. I know all countries have illegals, but the US is so big, it's just a HUGE problem.
  Not all come to work, either...some are running from the Mexican authorities, some are innocent but have communicable diseases due to the poor living conditions in their area. Meanwhile, Mexico's big cities are metropolitan and people live well...we're not talking about an impoverished nation here. We're talking about a nation who does not have to care for its poor because we do, and then we can't help our own and still make ends meet.

 

Cool Clip Charlie. Also isn..t it interesting that most of the countries mentioned are European including the so called "socialist" systems found in Britain ( which was much critiscised)and Sweden.
I have to say here, that many Americans are not very open to recommendations coming from outside because there is always the  "right" to choose how they want things.This is all well and good and nobody wants to take this. But isn..t it time to at least listen and discuss the possibillities together i. e. with all parties  and partners concerned.
The problem in the US I think is, there are too many lobbies and each wants "their own".
Of course no system is perfect, but maybe looking at some ,and taking parts may bring a solution.to accommodate the US
Also I have the feeling those that really need healthcare aren..t speaking out , either because some are unalphabetics  and aren..t able to articulate or those that just don..t have the possibillities we have of using the internet, so it is more or less just a small group in these forums that are giving their opin ions.

 

Excellent points Liane. I find myself shaking my head almost every time I read about yet another American who thinks that the public health care systems that most western nations have, won't work in the USA. Endless negative rhetoric is all we hear coming from America.

Let's go over a few of the reasons which have been listed right here on the various pages of Charlie's blogs:

-it'll cost too much
-we'll have to pay too much tax
-we won't be able to pick our doctors
-illegal immigrants will abuse it
-welfare users will abuse it
-drug prescriptions will cost more
-we won't be able to get a second opinion
-we'll have to wait longer for care
-the care will be substandard
-seniors will suffer
-children will suffer

What a total crock those excuses are! All of the things listed above are already happening in the USA and your health care is getting worse. Many people are suffering financially, emotionally and physically and more people are falling between the cracks every second of every day. There is no such thing as perfection in anything, including health care but there are wonderful health care systems in place in many many countries. Systems that function well, care for people affordably and humanely and with great expertise using cutting edge modern technology. Learn from them, take the best parts of them and build yourselves a good system. Soon!

It won't matter if you're a Democrat, Republican, Independent, religious or non religious, conservative or liberal.  If you continue to selfishly hold out until you get everything you want, the only thing you'll get for sure is older, assuming you can afford the health care needed to get to you a ripe old age. The longer you wait, the more over burdened and broken your system will become and the more it'll break the backs, the bank accounts and the hearts of the people who need it the most.

You claim you're the greatest nation on the planet and yet you don't seem to care enough about your fellow Americans to prove it by ensuring that everyone has access to affordable healthcare. You have a long journey ahead of you and no time left to waste fighting amongst yourselves.

Jenn in Canada
 

Welcome Jenn, I was wondering when you were going to join us.   Question for you:  Do you think that changing who is paying for the health care is going to change the cost of health care?  Canada has taken big business out of health care.  An American company wants to sell you a medication at $100/pill you say screw you, we know the components, we will develop it cheaper.  My pharmacy cannot purchase anything from Canada, it is illegal.  The bills proposed do nothing but change who pays for it, I don't see how that changes the skyrocketing price of health care.  Until it does offer real change, I will grow old without insurance because I really hate paying for incompetent stupidity, I already pay for far too much as it is.
 

Lisa the short answer is: cap medical fees, medical admin fees, and the cost of drugs. That's precisely what most  countries have done. Yes you'll get a few doctors who scream and stamp their feet because they want to earn millions (perhaps in the USA where they've been spoiled maybe a lot of drs will be screaming?) but we've found that most doctors who went into the profession for the right reasons (namely helping and healing people), don't mind their salaries being limited to say $100,000 to $500,000 a year, depending on their level of experience, type of specialty and expertise.

Medication generally costs less in countries with a public health care system because most govts have figured out that the pharmaceutical industry is gouging the American public and making enormous profits off of you. The big pharm companies make less here because they have to charge less. Drug research is privately and publically funded so the American arguement that drug companies can't research new drugs unless they charge huge fees for them isn't valid . Many countries also put a cap on how much pharmacists can charge to fill your presciption. In some places, pharmacists have charged more than three times the cost of the actual drug to fill your prescription. I was in Ireland this summer and the pharmacists there wanted more money for each prescription filled but the Irish people and their government stood their ground and said no, you can only charge what is reasonable and affordable to the people you're serving. Makes sense doesn't it!

Perhaps that's the big problem in the USA. Many of you are mad at the govt and stage your protests and wave your signs in front of govt buildings but have you ever considered that the govt could and should be a valuable ally in taking on the big companies, hospitals and medical lobbies who are over charging you? Maybe it's time to get mad at the drug companies, the hospital executives and yes even the doctors who charge way more than is fair or reasonable. Now before half of you write back and say the doctors deserve to be well paid. Yes they do but there's a differece between fair and reasonable pay for their services and outright greed and taking advantage of people.

Even the little things like crutches, bandages and splints are being over charged for in the US. Say the local hospital charges you $20 for a pair of wooden crutches. They probably cost the hospital $5 and the rest is profit. Of course hospitals need to fund their programs somehow but again, in countries with govt managed health care, hospital executive boards are given a budget and told to try to stick to it. If they need more money, they fund raise by soliciting funds from wealthy donors, holding lotteries etc. In the USA the profit tends to go to the over inflated salaries of the hospital executives or doctors so basically you are paying for their BMWs, Porsches and winter homes in the Cayman Islands.

If you asked the people in countries with public / govt administered health care if they'd ever want to go back to a system like what the USA currently has, I'd bet that with very few exceptions, most of us would look horrified and shout Never! right back at you. Does this tell you something about why almost every other westernized nation has affordable govt managed health care? It should.

 

Capping the spending is the right idea, now who would give up the money these huge businesses are willing to shell out to keep the cap off of the legislation???? I haven't found one yet, and it is sad.  Big business will pull the "free trade" card every time the government even thinks about trying.  There is not one single politician that is willing to give up the money to draft legislation to do the right thing. 
 

And that's the bottom line in all of this, isn't it Lisa? I know Jenn and I were talking over private email, and she told me that "USA style lobbying" is ILLEGAL in Canada and the malpractice issues are not as big. I'd think those 2 things make a huge difference in trying to finance something like this.

 

Jenn, you said: "but have you ever considered that the govt could and should be a valuable ally in taking on the big companies, hospitals and medical lobbies who are over charging you? Maybe it's time to get mad at the drug companies, the hospital executives and yes even the doctors who charge way more than is fair or reasonable"

BINGO!!! That's why we're protesting! The government is NOT our ally(and not just this administration, it's been building for a long time)! They don't "take on" the big lobbies and companies, they make deals with them in exchange for campaign funds! That's a big part of the upset over HR3200....the lobbyists, PhRMA and malpractice lawyers got their back-room deals first, then they thought about the people(maybe). Money talks, and the lobbyists have it. This latest plan by Max Baucus has mandatory insurance....what a great deal for the inscos! More customers for them, and they know we have to pay it or face fines/jail time. And what about the people who can't afford it? They get subsidized..but no one can tell us how those subsidies will be paid. They won't raise our tax rates, they're just going to count your benefits as income and tax that! Employers will be forced to purchase insurance for their employees(whether it's a good fit for you or not, your boss gets to choose, not you), and that's just going to make them outsource the work to India.
 It is soooo much more complicated than just "helping our fellow citizens". We want to do that, but can't afford it. Would Canada like to take 20 million Americans into your country to give free care, so we can continue to give to the 20 million Mexicans who are here? Of course, we wouldn't pay into the till...you'd just do it because "it's the right thing to do". Our illegal population and our "welfare entitlement"(not those truly needy, but those who are gaming the system) population are both bigger than the populations of some of the nations who "outrank" us. 
  Do you know why $5 crutches cost $20 here? Because they gave away 3 free pairs first. Same cost...$20 for 4 pairs of crutches, but only one patient gets charged. I'd also like to ask(sincerely) if medical school is subsidized in Canada? Our physicians come out of school with a tremendous education debt. I also understand that you do not have the medical malpractice issues that we have here..which also increases cost. What would happen if I were to walk into an emergency room in Ontario with no ID and no money? Would I get treated? Would I get to leave without paying? I'm confused on that...when we mention it, no one ever says what THEIR country would do in that situation.
  I really wish we could combine the best of Canada's systems and ours. Actually, Christi's ideas further down the page sound great.

 

Thanks for your reply Jenn , as always you put things more eloquently than I can.
I can..t understand why Americans aren..t even OPEN to try a change, and the excuses you mentioned don..t touch me either.
From an outsider it seems there is no unity among the US citizens. There is North & South, East & West , affluent and those that can..t afford insurance and finally the politicians who don..t want to loose their seats if they yay a change and most of all the lobbies.
Most of all I was shocked to hear that a medic/ dentist is can garnish someone because they can..t pay a bill there are other methods of payment such as time payment.
I had to visit a dentist because of pain and the first was if I had a credit card, then I was treated and ended paying $200  for an examination and an antibiotic ( which was extra!) for which in OZ a dentist would take around $A 75 and in Germany around €50. and both were better equipped than the US counterpart.

I think this will be an endless discussion.
Liane

 

..If I shake off the Glen Beckish tones of the song I can agree that we need to work together.  Unfortunately the slams using the words "Christian" nation and holding up posters with missed spelled words to make Americans look stupid may be entertaining to some but if the purpose is to get people to come together than I don't think it has much of a chance of accomplishing what "I think" is the point.

I've not been a blogger much before but there are some interesting things said by most here.  I guess the sarcasm is a way to make a point and I get that...but when it comes to getting together to actually do something sarcasm just keeps our tongue stuck in our cheek :)

Keep putting different view points out there though because it encourages us to make choices (hopefully by one's own convictions) instead of letting others do the thinking for us and do nothing.
..
 

I so agree with you Charles.  I personally know alot of people who can't afford their medicines.  But,  by the looks of these tea parties and other current events ...  Need I say; Better fasten your seatbelts fellow Democrats!  I'm afraid that we are in store for a bumpy ride!  Finding myself in agreement with David Vidal, except for the part about the country being better off without us.  Blue Collar people are always an asset to a country. I know the Civil War was an embarrassement to our country. So I'm gonna try an ignore that comment.  Anyway, he's right, southerners used to be mostly Democratic.  The Republicans have swayed them over for on reason of another: gun laws, property rights, abortion, stem cells,  etc.  Maybe was their idea?  Plus, the Republicans they already had backing them.  I am worrying about Majority Rule and more protesting to come.  Plus, the support for the President diminishing some lately.  I think, mostly due to worry over the deficit.  Maybe the outburst was a sign of the trouble that has been brewing.  And gave the folks who have been angry, fuel for their fires, so to speak!  Don't know if I am qualified for the job but,  i forcast a big shitstorm!  (sorry, speaking as a redneck American, hope not to offend anyone with that)  Hang in there everyone! 
 

Also, very funny clip by the way, I enjoyed it!  Especially the part about his brother living in the street after his operation.
 

Kind of says it all--
 

Ok - I'm ignorant about most of what this Health Care option is about.  I'm asking question because I honestly don't understand most of it.  Being 61 years of age and in extremely ill health makes me think I should have paid closer attention a LONG time age.  I mean this honestly and would appreciate any help you can give. . . . .(1)  There are to be tax credits to help offset the cost of the Health Care option.  These credits are to be on the IRS forms at the end of the year - is this correct?  Isn't that like shutting the barn door after the horse has run away? . . . .(2)  What if there is no money in those pockets to even cover out of pocket expenses to begin with?  Many of these people live paycheck to paycheck barely able to put a roof over their head or food on the table.  Now, even if they somehow manage to come up with the premiums,  how are they to cover the co-pays.  Many tests are so high priced that most people wouldn't have the money to cover the co-pay.  Most people will just not have the test, which could be life threatening. . . . .(3)  For those who choose to get private coverage, what is to stop the insurane companies from raising their premiums even higher?  If people could afford this they would already have coverage, wouldn't they? . . . .(4)  Is there a plan in place to keep drug companies from raising their prices even higher?  My scripts total almost $900 a mpnth - One is almost $300 just for one month.  How can they charge that much for one inhaler?  I guess they know that if people want to live they will find a way to get the money.  Often this means they will cut down on food or other scripts.  I don't think drug companies could do this without approval of the insurance companies. . . . .(4)  Are employers required to provide insurance for employees and if so - why? . . . .Seems like the winner, how ever this turns out, is the insurance industry. . . . .I appreciate you reading this and any answers you can share.
 

Thank you, Lisa.  I was beginning to wonder if anyone even read this post.
 

..Ok Janice, I will try to answer your questions as objectively as possible.  1) They are not clear about the tax credit, they could give you the option of taking a portion of it monthly like they do with the earned income credit, but they haven't said, and it isn't in any of the bills.  2,3,4)  There is no legislation in place, or being drafted, that will cap rising costs of medical care, prescription drugs, or the rising cost of insurance. 5) Employers will be required to provide insurance, but there is no legislation in the works that stops the status quo. Now, to top it off, they are trying to draft legislation that will fine you if you do not get insurance. I hope that answers your questions a little bit...
 

wow!that does not suprise me!
 

Michael Moore had it so right with his SICKO documentary. We are the richest country on Earth, yet we have the WORST health care. It's really such a shame that so many of the American people wish to keep it that way.

 

Yeah, it is too bad that it is only the big businesses that want to keep it that way. 
 

I'm sorry you've had to go through cancer. That is a horrible thing to go though.
The thought that went through my mind as I was checking out everyone's responces, and then when I read yours I thought, Each company that offers health care, offer what the company can afford. Each plan for each company is different. Such as my insurence that my husband gets from where he works. The company has thousands of employees and every so often the insurance coverage changes. It all depends on what the company wants to cover, and what they can afford. So what they used to cover, they may not cover now.
Or maybe a bigger co pay on things, than before.
I think people forget that its not always the "health care" they get. Many times its what insurance the company is paying for. Same goes for those that pay for their own insurance,  out of pocket. They get what they can afford from their insurance company, and it doesn't always cover what you find you need.
You never know how good your insurance is, until you need it. Then its a rude awakening. I found that out when I had my car accident in 87. That was an education on insurance and how good or bad it can be.

 

Thankyou Deidre for your comment.Your situation is exactly what I critiscise about the US health system. You aren..t the first person that I know have had this plight despite insurance.
I can..t help you financially , but maybe morally and hope that Obama finds a solution for you and many others .
Take care
Liane


 

I'm so glad you posted this Deidre.  I feel terrible that this has happened to you and it would be so preventable in the future if only people would stop nitpicking and let the government implement a decent and affordable health plan. Your situation is exactly the sort I was thinking of when I wrote my last post. The huge irony is that you wouldn't be in the fix you're in in Canada, Britain, Ireland, France, Australia, Germany, Japan or even in Russia or China! You'd have had your surgery and treatment and walked out of the hospital without a single bill. Instead of worrying about how or if you're going to pay off the enormous debt hanging over you, you'd be able to focus on the most important thing - your recovery! 

It's absolutely horrifying that in the USA someone who falls ill can be forced to the brink of financial ruin in order to get their health back or worse, that they might not even get the treatment that they need because they can't afford it in the first place. Americans who oppose the implementation of an affordable health care system should be ashamed of themselves. People in the USA need to put aside their petty concerns and realize how urgent it is to give affordable healthcare to the people who really need it right now! You can refine the system after it's in place but now is not the time to oppose or delay it. I shudder to think what will happen to the Deidres of the USA if the American people continue to fight over this important issue.

Thanks again for sharing your experience Deidre. It took courage to go public with such a personal thing and I sincerely hope and pray that there will be a positive resolution to this for you.

Jenn in Canada

 

..liane & Maple make some really good points.  Even if we don't like the health care systems in these other countries, why couldn't we just look to see how they were set up?  Look at them and see why it works for them?  Surely there are things in each of these systems that might work here.  Maybe we could take bits and pieces from each of them to set up some kind of workable solution.  Each of these countries seem able to make their health care system work.  Surely this would not be the case if these systems were bad. . . . .Are the insurance companies as involved in the health care industry in those countries as they are here?..
 

..It is my firm belief that we have world class health care.  It is also my firm belief that if a doctor or a hospital gives substandard care, they need to be held accountable regardless of who pays for it.  Changing who pays for it is not going to change the problem, once again, sucking chest wound... 

I challenge everybody to google health care insurance.  You will find that there is more coverage at lesser costs, tailored coverage, etc.  There is no 'one size fits all' It cannot work.  Being forced to buy into a substandard policy is what I fight against.  Universal health care is great and wonderful, a whole hell of a lot of countries have it.  It can work for America as well, IF we stemmed the rising cost of health care.  Give me a health care payment plan that works
..
 

..Yes a change is necessary.  As most know I battled breast cancer last year.  I am self employed (main source of income) and pay for my own health insurance.  I pay $646.00 per month.  I also work a part time job 5 nights a week to help pay for this health insurance. But when I needed it, it was there for me.  I have no deductables on the health portion and a $250 deductable on the pharmacy portion. DUring my cancer journey I paid $20 out of pocket for each doctor office visit, and $600 out of pocket for my hospital stay.  The rest I could not tell you what it cost, I never saw a bill.  The chemo, radiation, surgeries, diagnostic testing, byopsies were all settled between the insurance and the providers.  I was lucky but I pay big time for that luck!  Unfortunately I met others who either had no insurance or were under-insured and they were struggling with this whole cancer issue.  Not only struggling on how to pay for it, but struggling with making decisions on what treatment to pick and choose based on what they can pay for.  How Sad is that in this country!  You have two women, same illness, same treatment options yet one can take advantage of all treatments and the other has to pick and choose because of the insurance issue!  And since when did the insurance companies become God and decide what tests were necessary and which weren't.  I was denied a breast MRI by my insurance company, a test my doctor said I must have. Insurance Co. said it is expensive and not necessary.  My doctor got involved and convinced the insurance company that I needed it, and they gave in.  Good thing too as it found a bigger cancer that hadn't shown up on the mammogram,  completely changed my treatment plan.  Insurance companies feel that a mastectomy should only be a day surgery (meaning that a woman goes into the hospital in the morning, has her breasts removed and then goes home a few hours later).  Again my doctor got involved, said I was at high risk for infection, so I was allowed a 48 hour hospital stay.  There should not have been an issue with either of these.  My doctor spoke up for me,  yet I met some women who did not have the tests, did go home 6 hours after a mastectomy because that is what their insurance company approved and they did not have a doctor who would argue with the insurance company. This is not acceptable!  Everyone should be able to have whatever treatments or testing that are necessary.  Insurance companies do not have the right to play with the lives of people.  

Yes, it is time for a change!  I am tired of the two sides bickering, and I think with all this bickering they are losing sight of the real issue because they are too busy belittling each other and trying to one up each other.  It's time to stop being liberals, conservatives, democrats or republicans and just be Americans trying to find a solution to a very serious problem. ..
 

I'm sorry.. I didn't know that you were going throught that. I agree with you 100% on your take on who gets what, based on what you  can afford, and if your lucky enough to have a doctor that will fight for you. That isnt the norm.
It happens, but not always.
We do need reform. And we do need common sense, and wisdom on making changes for the better.
Its not healthcare that's the problem. The problem is the costs and the coverage. And who pays.
And how much do they pay. The bottom line is the insurance companies, and the drug companies, and getting a grip on how to have the best healthcare, and the most reasonal price.
God bless you, and keep you..
 

As great as Malta, Singapore, France, etc. has universal healthcare I don't see it as the solution for America. America's healthcare system is far from perfect but I don't see universal healthcare as the answer.
Here's what I've realized with America's healthcare system. When you're rich, it's obvious, when you are poor you can apply for Medicaid, Medicare etc. What about the middle folk? We're too rich for one but too poor for another.
Here's what I propose:
For starters, insurance needs to stop covering unnecessary things. It made my stomach turn when I found out that some insurance companies cover ED drugs and in vitro fertilization. Life might be bad without sex and children but it's not going to kill you unlike cancer or heart disease.
Second thing. We need to treat health insurance like insurance. Think of all the other insurances we own, car, home, life etc. The insurance is there to protect us just in case disaster happens like we get into a car accident or our house burns down. But routine maintenance like oil changes, break jobs, house painting, plumbing etc. all come out of our own pockets. Shouldn't health insurance be there to cover us when disaster strikes, like cancer, heart disease etc. Shouldn't our "routine maintenance" like physicals, colds, flu etc. come out of our own pockets. I know it seems a little expensive but I'm sure if car and home owners insurance covered the routine maintenance oil changes would be $1000 each instead of $30. If we all shopped around for doctors and price I'm pretty sure a trip to the doctors office would be $30 - $50 without insurance instead of several hundred dollars.

 

It is this EXPENSIVE routine maintenence that find the cancers and diseases.  It doesn't matter what doctor you go to, the hospital is going to charge you the same thing for a mamogram, an ultrasound, or a colonoscopy.  The labs are going to charge you the same high prices for your routine check up that is testing for those cancers and diseases.  You can walk in to a dr. office for a routine physical and pay $5,000 for the tests alone.  People who have ED meds and in-vitro in their policies PAY for it. If somebody doesn't need it in their policy, they can have it removed and not worry about having to pay for it. If we got rid of covering everything that isn't going to kill you, then most wouldn't need insurance. Honestly, primarily healthy people do no carry insurance and don't worry about paying for medical care, because they are not needing any.

Now Medicaid.  What a joke.  My brother is "functionally retarded" with grand mal epilepsy and schizophrenia. He is on SSI, (Suplimental Security Income, which is totally different than Social Security, but governed by the same program) do you know that the only thing he is entitled to is emergency medical care?  ALL he can do is go to the ER for a shot of valium when it gets too bad inside his head.

Universal healt care is the best answer.  With that you can cap the costs high priced medications, high priced insurance that doesn't cover what you need, catastrophic illnesses.  We used to take care of our own, now we just take care of ourselves and forget about those that cannot do the same. It is a shame that we have to legislate human kindness.
 

I am glad you caught this video! Sad but well done!
 

In Montana, a simple dental exam and cleaning cost US$ 70, try to get that anywhere else in the country.  Americans have been begging the Government to cap medical costs, but they have refused. I get so tired of being told that since I don't agree with the three options in front of me I am against the whole idea.  Now as far as being #37 on WHO, that last report was given at the end of President Clinton's term, but somehow it is President Bush's and the Republican's fault. 
 

..Dang it Jo, you got to the answer before I did!!  Very well stated!!!!..