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JINX TALKETH
Jinx Dawson™



Last Updated: 10/26/2009

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Gender: Female
Status: Single
Age: 100
Sign: Capricorn

City: Bumphuket
State: USA
Country: EG
Signup Date: 9/12/2006

Who Gives Kudos:


Thursday, June 04, 2009 
Greetings Jinx,

I hope I have not upset you in anyway, I meant only to agree that people do not research things. I do my best to try. Here goes.

I have no disrespect for Black Sabbath but over the years with more info available, their origin becomes more like swiss cheese and they themselves make the biggest holes. As you have said, with the internet now available it is much easier to track info from various world wide sources but my PRIME info on Geezer owning a copy of "Witchcraft" comes right out of Butler's mouth to me AND quite a few others I am friends with as between '80 & '83 I crewed the Black & Blue tour in a general worker/ backline situation and as a record collector much as Butler is, the talk of bands I grew up on (Savage Ressurection, Leaf Hound, Coven, Jerrusalem etc) eventually came to "Have you ever heard an album (meaning the first) by a band called Coven" to the reply of "Yeah, had that one as well...).

The Sabbath Mythos to the name is pretty solid, unless you start to check some obvious things that many people will not. I will try to lay them out the best I can:

The "Claim" is that Black Sabbath adopted the name in August of 1969 and is very much accepted but this date is backdated to fit the mythos. "Sabbath" claim that they were playing "Evil Woman" by Crow as EARTH as part of their set which at the time featured covers as well as a few originals. Crow's "Evil Woman" was not released in the USA until October of 1969. Therefore there is no way they could have been playing the song PRIOR to the original being released. It could have taken up to a month before exported copies of the single hit England. EARTH could NEVER have played it, SABBATH could but they would have to wait until near mid November to do so. That puts the name "Black Sabbath closer toward year's end.

THE NAME BLACK SABBATH:
Your "Witchcraft" album is Mercury Records SR 61239 before Kenny Rankin's "Family" album (SR 61240) and after Van der Graaf Generator's "The Aerosol Grey Machine" (SR 61238). The Van der Graff album was released by Mercury in January of 1969. Without knowing the exact month of "Witchcraft" (for now) and knowing how labels release product, even if "Witchcraft" were delayed up to five months in being released it would still arrive PRIOR to Earth becoming Black Sabbath and as your friend pointed out in a posting, Butler admits to having the album as he had said to me (glad he found that) and on UK radio shows as they did or used to do shows on record collecting (Lived there for seven years). I believe Iommi has even played your "Black Sabbath" on his radio programme.

The original (rubbish now) story that Osbourne used to tell was that the band were rehearsing in Germany in 1968 and they saw people lining up to see the Italian Mario Bava film "Black Sabbath". If THIS is the ORIGINAL story then it makes no logistical sense. In 1968 the German government was working with the German film industry to try to re-establish the art of German Cinema that was still suffering from the War. It is HIGHLY unlikely that they would grant liscence to an Italian language film at that time and have lines around the block for it. The location of the theater has changed at least seven to eight times in recent years.

So as it goes, It is HIGHLY likely and plausable with just this considered info that Black Sabbath "borrowed" quite a few themes from "Witchcraft" in the formation of their new direction from a power blues band. I mean them NO disrespect at all and have enjoyed the legend for a long time, but I'm older now and when you begin to track down the origin of legends you sometimes find there is a man behind the curtain pulling the levers and it is not quite the way you were told them.

I respect you and Coven for being the pioneers you TRULY were and remain. I adore Heavy Music and respect it's origins and try to teach my younger collector friends AND my bandmates about it's past. My guitarist...is getting there!! When I mention Coven in the context of Heavy Rock Begginings I get one of three things said to me: "Who?", "Didn't they get mentioned in Zappa's 200 Motels film?" or "The did that soldier song right?". I hope one day Coven & yourself get the recognition you DEEPLY deserve. MANY BANDS OWE YOU!!

Again, I hope I have not caused you any upset. I am VERY honored that you are on my Briar Rose & VAULT Magazine MySpace and that you accepted me here. It may not be professional but if I were not a fan of this genre of music, I should not be playing it. I am a fan of it, forever. A fan of you and Coven.

I hope this clears up a bit.

The Brightest Of Blessings (with a few dark ones for giggles!!)
Randy Blake II
Vocals For BRIAR ROSE
Editor VAULT Magazine (On Hiatus)

NOTE: Crow's song "Evil Woman" was published by Coven's publisher's Yuggoth Music and it was a remake by Black Sabbath and released in 1970 on Vertigo Records, a subsidary of Coven's first label Mercury.
JC
Jamie Combs

 
What he said



Hail

 
Posted by JC on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 7:49 AM
[Reply to this
Druwydion Pendragon

 
I must agree with what I read here as well from the viewpoint of a Brotherhood Generational Satanist that "listened to it all" back then......
 
Posted by Druwydion Pendragon on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 6:02 PM
[Reply to this
Swann

 
Black Sabbath was no relavant today or years before ever since Lords of Chaos was release everyone and including wanted to know about Jinx Dason and Coven..I HAVE never believe the story ozzy and Tony gave about how they got the bands name as for the film..it was made around 1963 and the original name was  I Tre Volti Della Paura the American called it Black Sabbath HIGHLY unlikely that Germany would show the film in its American title
 
Posted by Swann on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 7:56 PM
[Reply to this
Swann

 
Black Sabbath IS not relavant today or years before ever since Lords of Chaos was release everyone and including myself wanted to know about Jinx Dawson and Coven..I HAVE never believe the story ozzy and Tony gave about how they got the bands name from a Bava film as for the film..it was made around 1963 and the original name was  I Tre Volti Della Paura the American called it Black Sabbath HIGHLY unlikely that Germany would show the film in its American title

 
Posted by Swann on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 7:59 PM
[Reply to this
DoomTart

 
You are vindicated, My Queen...but that was inevitable.

 
Posted by DoomTart on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 6:30 AM
[Reply to this
Aron
Aron Rush

 
Greetings O Queen! Though I've never spoken to members of Black Sabbath, I've come to the same conclusions. Sabbath changed their image and direction after hearing your first album. I grew up on Sabbath and currently listen to alot of obscure UK and European bands from the '69 to '73 era, and one can't deny the tremendous influence the Witchcraft album had, and not just on the "heavy" bands. I am a big fan of Dutch pop band Shocking Blue. On their '70 release, Scorpio's Dance, there is a song called Seven Is A Number In Magic, which follows the same idea as Pact With Lucifer very closely. This is one of numerous examples of the far reaching influence of Coven.  I believe your next two albums influenced alot of bands as well. The Steve Miller Band's late 70's hit Take The Money And Run is simply a watered down version of Nobody's Leaving Here Tonight, and one can't help but notice the similarities between the sound of songs like Nightingale, Lady-O and I Need A Hundred Of You with the very successful revamped Fleetwood Mac sound of the mid 70's. In my book, none of them will ever touch Coven and most certainly not the greatest voice to ever hit rock music.  I wish you nothing but the best. Thy friend always, Aron
 
Posted by Aron on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 5:13 PM
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