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Vince Fulwood


Last Updated: 11/20/2009

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Gender: Male
Status: Engaged
Age: 39
Sign: Gemini

State: thereabouts
Signup Date: 9/13/2006

Who Gives Kudos:


November 11, 2008 - Tuesday 4:27 PM

Category: News and Politics
Call me crazy but this issue has really pissed me off. Let's forget that these people who married are gay. The basic argument against gay marriage is that marriage has always been between a man and a woman and that it is a religious institution.

Bullshit.

Marriage from it's earliest inception in history (or even Biblically) was one of ownership, inheritance, and alliances. Intimate love was irrelevant to the institution for the vast bulk of history and for that matter even in much of the world today. A man would often barter for a woman or make political concessions for one in much the same way as they would acquire either livestock or a slave for their business. In much of the world and much of history two people couldn't marry if they were of different races or different religions. In some cases even partners of different nationalities or families were anathema to the institution not to mention if the intended spouses fathers did not approve and bargain the transaction. The prevailing culture and government would not recognize it and would not afford what rights or recognitions were accorded to other marriages in those societies.

Think about that for a minute. If you are married or know people who are or if your parents are/were married, think about it. Would those marriages have stood up to the scrutiny of other cultures or of past ages? Marriage is far, far away from a static rigid institution. It has evolved over time to what we now know and it will continue to do so regardless of what people believe today. I know of no marriage (especially in this country) that is what marriage used to be. People may say no to gay marriage but just as in the past marriage will change and grow just as every other dynamic in the human paradigm grows and evolves. It is practically unheard of that such a thing can remain static in a dynamic and growing world.

As for it being a religious institution, again, bullshit. That idea comes from a time when church and state were the same. You couldn't have one without the other. These days a couple may or may not have a sense of spirituality in their marriage. In the past you had to have religious trappings to legitimize it. Today it may or may not have religious trappings.
But they have always and still do have had to have governmental recognition or society itself doesn't recognize it. If this was purely a religious issue then we could say it's up to the individual religion to make the call while civil marriages would be universal. Or we could say only that only marriages performed by a govt official counted, but then that would really piss people off since god forbid (irony intended) it would take away someone's rights.

This is a moronic issue. Eventually gay marriages will happen. People can say "not in my lifetime" all they want just as people have for past marital evolutions. In the end this is not an issue that effects anyone directly but those who wish to marry. You will never be able to stop those who want something and have a direct vested interest in achieving it versus those who simply don't like the idea but are never to be directly involved. Ever.




A BEAUTIFUL RIOT

 
I dont care who marries who or when or why. well, I do care about the why. IF you LOVE someone and you know for you that being married is the ultimate... umm whats the word? SYMBOL of your love.. then so be it. I have an affinity for gay people in general and I would fight for any rights and have for them...

HOWEVER if we want to talk marriages as open to whomever. Then we need to go further in the thoughts of "is there a soul mate for everyone?" ummm I dont think so.. I think there are people we can fall deeply in love with. but just one? NO. I think we have many people in our lives that we shouldnt have to choose from . Why cant we have it all? I think if everyone in the realtionship is ok with it. THEN everyone should be allowed a marriage of sorts as well. NOT just some committed ..we live together crap.. actual bonded to all.


NOW if we touch on your history of Marriage and all the bullshit in the past that has come with it... WOULD any of us be married to the people we are married to ( or who we are in realtionships with)? IF it meant someone else were to pick our partners I would say most of us would not even be alive.

Lets take my grandparents on my moms side.. here you have a German who couldnt speak a lick of english, came to America ..saw this Crow Indian Beauty and fell in love... fell in love w her beauty then fell in love w her. They both struggled due to the language barrier BUT thet knew for THEM it was right. Now had they had someone step back and say "you cant marry an Indian..or You cant marry the enemy" would that have been ok? HELL NO .. not ok.

We can all look at our families and realize had people arranged marriage a high percentage of us would not exist... and that is sad.

BUT I will say this for my fathers parents.. My grandfathers parents fell in love w my grandmother when she was about 10. they secretly along w my grandmothers parents had a sort of arrangement and pushed them together. There was NO change of money, dowry involving cows. BUT there was a land exchange. They (paternal grandparents ) gave them (maternal grandparents) 400 acres. YES I AGREE its alot. but it wasnt that they were trying to marry him off as much as they wanted them to be set and have a future and that was a great start. BTW they were married for 51 years and had 6 children. They still had a hard life and struggles just like anyone else. but they knew they were there for each other at the end of the day in love.


basically to sum up my rant..(and then i will step down from the soapbox) .. PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO LOVE WHO THEY LOVE..WORSHIP WHO THEY WORSHIP AND RESPECT EVERYONE AND THE WORLD WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE... INSTEAD OF SAYING IT ..PRACTICE IT..

MUCH LOVE
 
Posted by A BEAUTIFUL RIOT on November 12, 2008 - Wednesday - 12:30 AM
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vınce|ǝɔuıʌ
Vince Fulwood

 
I've said it before and I'll say it again; Evil loves Evil.

lol
 
Posted by vınce|ǝɔuıʌ on November 12, 2008 - Wednesday - 12:53 AM
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Darcy Warcy
Darcy Zuniga

 
As a catholic I disagree, but as a person I feel for you man. You should just marry him anyways. No just kidding but really I can see how upset you are with the issue. You know what else I have a problem with no sex before marriage. My fiance and I are waiting, and we are waitin till he graduates law school to wed. It sucks but we both feel strongly that for us to be wed in a catholic church we should do this. My father died about a year ago, and I like to think he is in heavon and I feel like this is also honoring him. I know all of this sounds crazy. I just want to do what is right by God. Now I have been known to be wrong, and I understand and empothise with you, but I also understand the churchs argument. I have noticed allot of polotics on myspace as of late. I hope you still like me as a freind even if we have different opinions.

 
Posted by Darcy Warcy on November 12, 2008 - Wednesday - 12:36 AM
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A BEAUTIFUL RIOT

 
ms Darcy,
I am sure you are a lovely girl. But I do need to interject a few things to your response to Vince. and in NO WAY do I mean this in any harmful manner I am sometimes too blunt so I am doing this w caution and shouldnt even respond to someone elses blog but I feel I need to.

A.. I am also catholic
B.. I AM an EX NUN and still have very strong ties to my convent and my sisters.

C.. I Do understand and respect your views on no sex before marriage
D...BUT Doing what is right by GOD means loving and accepting people ALL PEOPLE.. not just the ones you approve or disapprove of. as a christian you are suppose to be OPEN and loving to all of GOD's children not place judgement on shall it be right for someone to marry simply because their gender isnt correct for their love? Judgement is for GOD and as a catholic you should understand that more than a non believer.

E. Do whats right for you and overcome the guilt of catholicism.


I do mean all of this with love...and if you want to talk further Im available.

 
Posted by A BEAUTIFUL RIOT on November 12, 2008 - Wednesday - 1:37 PM
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vınce|ǝɔuıʌ
Vince Fulwood

 
See I don't have a problem at all with what you and your fiance' are doing. I have another friend who basically did the same thing for her religious beliefs and I supported that the whole way. It's between you and your guy and your beliefs.

Of course we can be friends and I wouldn't have a friend who totally agreed with me. Talk about boring. This might sound sort of weird but for me this is sort of a conservative stance I have. Not culturally per se but more in terms of govt control. The govt shouldn't consider the cultural implications. As far as it is concerned this is a matter of a legal contract and any cultural differences should be handled thru the arena of public discourse. That being said, as a contract, it shouldn't dictate who should or should not be a party by and large. Churches should yes if they are to perform the ceremony and so in that vein it's basically a variation "giving to God what is God's and what to Caesar what is Caesar". Religion and State do not have to mix or coincide on this issue in my way of thinking.
 
Posted by vınce|ǝɔuıʌ on November 12, 2008 - Wednesday - 1:11 AM
[Reply to this
Saffire

 
Our gov still views women as property. Property can't own property so, in the eyes of the law (stay with me) women can't marry women and well, property owners can't own another owner so men can't marry men. How to prove this? The IRS... and the state tax offices offer up this on the forms "Taxpayer"... "spouse". I paid taxes in advance one year, using a form off the web. I put in my SSN and my name as taxpayer and was given coupons that listed my husband and HIS SSN to submit further taxes... ummm... my SSN nor name was on there. Women are still considered property for the purposes of the tax code.


Change the code. Change the world.


Offer up that we are all equal. We all are either taxpayers... or all spouses... I prefer the first since that covers everyone including single folks and makes for less forms (which is a good thing when it comes to the IRS). As much as we want to think of marriage as something to do with love, it's really about the law. If folks were required to love one another either to get married or to stay married... well, there'd be a lot less married folks, eh...

So if a hetero couple can use the law, get married (without love) to obtain the bennies (of which there are many) then why not allow a gay/lesbian couple to marry for any reason. Keep church out of it and yup... there's no argument.


Want to really scratch the surface? Go beyond sexual orientation and go to gender identification.


My brother (born my sister) was never able to marry a woman, as a female lesbian. Now that his license says "M" and he's got a male name and he's gone through his transition (wherein he's only had some female parts removed).... he can marry a woman. Thank goodness his orientation didn't change (which can happen) or he'd be right back in the same boat. Oh the irony... Think about it folks. This sexual orientation stuff only just brushes the surface off of a greater, gender based discussion... what is a woman... what is a man... and what does our law say about it (nor should they say about it)... I bet if we start tweaking with gender, the "marriage is between a man and a woman" thing starts to get silly... marriage is a legal contract, absconded by the church because at one time... government and church were the same. *sings* the times they are a chaaaaanging...
 
Posted by Saffire on November 12, 2008 - Wednesday - 1:03 PM
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vınce|ǝɔuıʌ
Vince Fulwood

 
Fully understand and I've even had this talk with a couple of transexual (pre-op) friends of mine. It's a real mess in a lot of ways for a lot of folks that the majority prefers not to see or empathize with. I'm not saying those who oppose are not without compassion per se, just that it's hard to see the other side when they believe eons of thought dictate otherwise.

I think it was Melissa Etheridge who said recently "So if you are going to grant me the full rights of a citizen to choose my spouse then does that mean I don't have to pay taxes since I'm not really a citizen in the govt's eyes?"
 
Posted by vınce|ǝɔuıʌ on November 12, 2008 - Wednesday - 1:24 PM
[Reply to this
Saffire

 
I know some folks yearn and work on being color blind. Perhaps the same can be strived for with gender... Gender blindness could lead to a whole different kind of world... think about it. Especially in ways that gender is still so key...

I love studying gender... there's so many more than the two box system our society wants to cram everyone into. But our gov will have to be at least willing to start with a third box... "other"... hey, they have one for race (in which I insert Human) and ethnicity (in which I insert PA Dutch)... why not gender. It's what they want it to come down to, more so than sex (which make 'polite' people squimish) but most folks aren't ready for that. Not honestly. Cuz, brush that surface and you face yourself.

 
Posted by Saffire on November 13, 2008 - Thursday - 2:48 AM
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