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Curt Smith / Tears For Fears



Last Updated: 11/17/2009

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October 23, 2009 - Friday 

Current mood:equanimous
I posted quite a few tweets yesterday, primarily in exchange with a fan (Traci), regarding my position on gay marriage. For the record: I'm for it. If two consenting adults wish to marry, I see no reason that every state in the U.S. shouldn't allow them do so.
In one particular exchange, Traci tweeted: "All people are created equal. I just don't agree with gay marriage."
To which I responded, "So all people then are not created equal?"
This in turn prompted an email from another fan (Chris), who added an interesting insight to the mix. He wrote (in part):
The fact is that all people are born unequal in every meaningful way that equality can be supplied. All people are born unique (even identical twins), but some have more opportunities than others, some are smarter than others, some are born with trivial disadvantages of skin pigmentation, some will be fat, some skinny, some tall, some short, etc.
The idea of equality is an important one, but this is a legal concept: regardless of the situation of your birth or your development, in order to have a fair and orderly society, each individual should be beholden to the same standards. In the US system, that means rights as defined by law. While there are problems with the way the US applies these laws, in theory, each person should be granted the same rights and have the same liabilities regardless of their race, sex, sexual preference, creed, religion, etc.
That's exactly what I meant when I tweeted about all people being equal: not that we're a species of replicants, but that everyone should receive equal rights and protection under the law - as, indeed, the founding fathers of the U.S. spelled out in the Declaration of Independence. In fact, the only issue I have with Chris' statement is his reference to "sexual preference." Being gay isn't a "preference," or a "lifestyle," it's a biological fact, just as heterosexuality is.
I do understand - and respect - that many of those who oppose gay marriage do so based on their religious beliefs. But I object to those who would impose those beliefs on what is, ultimately, a civil matter. No marriage ceremony in the U.S., whether religious or civil in nature, is valid without a license. And those licenses are issued by the state, not by a church.
Many, many weddings do take place as strictly civil services with no religious component or officiant. My writing/producing partner Charlton Pettus is an atheist, and has a license to officiate marriages. My manager Arlene and her husband were married by a judge. The bottom line is that you don't need any religion's blessing to be legally married in this country.
Having said that: if a given church doesn't want to sanction gay marriage, that's fine by me. As the U.S. also enjoys freedom of religion, no law should force a church to perform marriages that go against its beliefs.
Just don't tell consenting adults who don't share those beliefs that they cannot wed and enjoy the attendant legal protections and benefits of marriage.
As always, I welcome your comments in response, asking only that you treat others' opinions with the same respect you'd like your own to be given.
Peace and love for all,
Papa S.
Mary Ellen
Mary Ellen Bellfy

 
Well said.   I don't think there is anything to add!

Thanks Curt!
 
Posted by Mary Ellen on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
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My Own World

 
Hey Curt,

You couldnt be more right. The fact remains though, that  noone will ever be happy with equality in society due to what I like to refer to as: Me, me, me syndrome. People seem so stuck on themselves that they fail to realize that happiness has no boundaries. Which is exactly where the line is drawn in the sand. It seems, at least in the US, that the minute someone is happy... There is always someone there to bring them down. Hell, I've even had it happen with my best friend and my wife. Whereas my best friend tried everything in his power to split up my wife and I before we got married, going as far as telling her I was gay. All due to jealousy, I assume. Why? Because I was happy and he was not.

Old fashion values do not intertwine equally with modern romance. I guess you could say that, as human beings... we are all equal. We all have blood, skin, bones and brains. Which is exactly where equality comes to a halt. There is a stigma that love is only love if the church says so. Law is only following the churches wishes in order to save face with the American public, yet they fail to realize that the very people pushing the envelope of love are those who love each other the deepest. Those who would truly die for each other. How many gay marriages do you ever hear of falling apart? Yet every day the heterosexual divorce rate skyrockets. Because, in my opinion, marriage is too easy a thing in life to accomplish. There is really no working for it. Anyone who knows each other for a day, an hour, a minute... can tie the knot.

.."......The idea of equality is an important one, but this is a legal concept: regardless of the situation of your birth or your development, in order to have a fair and orderly society, each individual should be beholden to the same standards. In the US system, that means rights as defined by law. While there are problems with the way the US applies these laws, in theory, each person should be granted the same rights and have the same liabilities regardless of their race, sex, sexual preference, creed, religion, etc."

..I am not sure that this ever held true in the US. There has always been corruption in the ranks that fight hard against the very constitution that was supposed to make this country great. The problem is, the constitution leaves a lot of space for interpretation... which lawmakers take full advantage of to skew the scales of justice in their favor. They could care less about the individual, only what they can do to please the masses. It is one area that needs a complete overhaul in the US. It is very rare when one individual lawmaker stands up and out against the grain and takes a firm stance on what he believes in. Then he is labeled a black sheep and is brushed under the carpet for spewing nonsensical rhetoric.

Love is love, marriage is marriage. Why is it so hard for people to understand that? Some people just fight and believe a little harder than others in order to obtain it. It is only when you have to struggle to get from point A to point B, that you realize how special life and love can be.

Which is just thrown in your face by politicians, looking to please a certain consensus, in order to get elected for their next term. It goes to show how much they really care about the individual? Their career takes a front seat to others ambitions. Ambitions that originally made this country what it was. Shoot for the stars, they used to say.

Who wouldve known that the stars wouldve been so two dimensional when you got there?
..
 
Posted by My Own World on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
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Phutupap

 
Hi Curt..
..Greetings from Wells, Somerset. ....
....My wife are best of friends with a gay couple who had their civil partnership ceremony last year in Bridgwater, Somerset. It was very moving to witness. These guys are more in union than any straight couple I've ever met. When we left the registry office in all their regalia (Cream Indian Nero style suits with blue and red cravats) we marched through the town centre. I call it "Trouble-over-Bridgewater" as it's not reknowned for its tranquility or tollerance towards alternative lifestyles. As we entered the thriving pub I went out again to get some cash and this old boy came up to me and said directly "where's the bride then?" to which I replied "there isn't one". The look of astonishment on his face as it dawned on him what was afoot was a picture and he paused with a slight look of disdain before announcing " 'yer, well fair play to 'em". So people are full of surprizes.....
....Have a great day Curt....
....Best wishes....
....David....
 
Posted by Phutupap on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
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Suzanne
Suzanne Olden

 
You got another good one going on CSO!
 
Posted by Suzanne on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
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aardvark5

 
Dear Curt,
I agree with what Chris says about equality being a legal concept. Equality as a legal concept enables consistent standards to be upheld in our society.  I find his quote " trivial disadvantages of skin pigmenation" to be so accurate!  I personally feel that "sexual preference" is not all biological; environmental and social factors play a role.    I was married at one time to a Jewish man, and since it was a "mixed marriage" - there were both a Methodist Pastor and Jewish Rabbi officiating - we were not able to be married in a Synagogue or Methodist Church due to Jewish Law. I  agree that there needs to be a clear separation of Church and State; enforcing churches to marry people against their beliefs would not be in anyone's best interest, but that does not preclude people from loving whomever they deem fit to love.

The aardvark
 
Posted by aardvark5 on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
[Reply to this
a glass onion

 
Greetings,

Always enjoy your posts.  In regard to this, you state a sentiment that I wish more religious people would; that is, holding one's personal religious beliefs as truth but being sure not to force it upon others who do not share the same beliefs.

At least, you state how I view it and want to live my Christian life.  I have my beliefs, but I can never justify forcing them on others, even if it's something I am strongly against.  On the contrary, I hope others can see, and respect, my views in merely how I live my life and treat others.  It is such an important concept that so many religious folk do not practice, and I believe not doing so is more detrimental than beneficial.

So, you're spot on with wanting all to share equal rights as citizens of this country, but not pressing that same view on churches, whose purpose it is to sometimes not go toe-in-toe with the state; they are two separate institutions with two separate goals.  I wish more would see it this way.  Christianity, at its core, is a religion and a lifestyle, of unconditional love and acceptance.  One doesn't have to accept the "sin" in order to accept the individual.

You're a good guy, keep it up.

Best to you and your family,
a glass onion

 
Posted by a glass onion on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
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~)o(~Kim~)o(~
Kimberly C.

 
I agree 100%. It is a civil issue, not a religious matter. You made a GOOD point that many people still do not understand: being gay is a biological fact, just like being straight. Equal rights. You word things so well Curt. Even when people don't always show the same respect, you are amazing. Much love man. Much love...
....Kim..
 
Posted by ~)o(~Kim~)o(~ on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
[Reply to this
brett schieber

 
I'll keep this brief -  I agree with you 100 percent and thank you for sharing that.
 
Posted by brett schieber on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
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RETROGLAMOURGIRL.COM HAIR FLOWERS - LAURA BENNETT
Laura Bennett

 
Very well said, and I agree with you 100%!  ..

Cheers,

Laura

 
Posted by RETROGLAMOURGIRL.COM HAIR FLOWERS - LAURA BENNETT on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
[Reply to this
Phutupap

 
Hi Curt..Greetings from Wells, Somerset, England. My wife and are best friends with a gay couple who had their civil partnership ceremony last year in Bridgwater, a town not reknowned for it's tolerance towards alternative lifestles. In fact I call it "Trouble-over-Bridgwater".....It was a very moving ceremony and these guys are more in union than any straight couple I've ever met. When we all ceremoniously paraded through the town centre, the guys in their Cream Nero Suits with blue and red cravats, it turned a few heads and a few heckles were overheard but still we went to the main pub in the centre. I left to get some cash and an old boy approached me with a puzzled look on his face "where's the bride then?" he asked, to which I replied "there isn't one". The look on his face was a picture as he processed what he'd just heard and after a few seconds mulling over his reaction he replied " 'yer, well fair play to 'em". So people are full of surprizes.....
....Have a great day,....Best wishes....D O..
 
Posted by Phutupap on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:14 PM
[Reply to this
Sophie

 
I'm very impressed by this discussion, thank you for sharing Curt.

Actually I agree with what you say about gay being a biological statement and nothing else. I've been watching "The making of John Barrowman" and this has been very helpful to me. These studies that he's had done (with himself as a subject) might just be a beginning and would deserve to be dealt with as much distance and extra researches as any normal scientific study but no one had dared or even really tried to bring this tools against ignorance to the world before.

About being gay (as a digression on the gay marriage subject), I'm studying the Bible from another point of view, someone has offered me a book on a study about the point of view on homosexuality in the Bible: "What the Bible ..Really.. Says About Homosexuality" by Daniel A. Helminiak.
It seems a big problem of translation appears, and the original text might have been mistranslated on purpose, for ... let's call it political reason. I haven't finished to re-check everything that is in this book and I want to check by myself if this is a blasphematory book or a real discovery. I want to take all the needed time to make up my mind with things I trust fully.
Just imagine how we would all feel if we realized the Bible itself would have been used against people, against all the principles of love and respect... the Bible as a tool for discrimination?!?

(Please forgive any mistake I could have done here, I'm French and I might have used some words in the wrong way, ask me if there's anything that would sound weird to you, it might not be on purpose, thanks for understanding)

 
Posted by Sophie on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:15 PM
[Reply to this
Chris

 
The idea of equality is not only a legal concept. It is a philosophical concept without which no law could be done or changed. According  to the universal declaration of human rights,  every human being is born equal in dignity and rights. As the law is not the same if you live in the US or France or any other country, we might assume that we're all just equal in dignity... which is not very far from religious concepts... 
 
Posted by Chris on October 25, 2009 - Sunday - 8:15 PM
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The Gill-Man

 
You've managed to pretty well sum up my thoughts on the matter to a "T". Well done sir!
 
Posted by The Gill-Man on November 12, 2009 - Thursday - 5:20 PM
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D.J. Chany Philly

 
curt u r so rite mate.
 
Posted by D.J. Chany Philly on November 17, 2009 - Tuesday - 4:35 AM
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