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Do the Right Thing, Barack



Last Updated: 6/23/2007

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Gender: Male
Status: Married
Age: 35
Sign: Leo

State: Washington DC
Country: US
Signup Date: 5/3/2007

Who Gives Kudos:


Monday, June 11, 2007 

Category: News and Politics

Welcome to the Club, Millenials

So this Obama MySpace profile screw-up is interesting.  I have a few calls in to the campaign to get their side, since most of what we know is coming from Micah Sifrey's excellent article at Techpresident.  I expect it'll probably generate some TV coverage, just because it's such a fresh angle on campaigns.


 

The narrative is as follows.  A volunteer named Joe Anthony started an unofficial MySpace page for Obama in 2004.  When the Presidential campaign started up, Chris Hughes (who co-founded Facebook) and Scott Goodstein, both of whom worked for the Obama campaign, reached out to Anthony and began working with him.  Anthony was fine at first, but it became more and more work to manage the page.  On the flip side, the Obama people became more concerned about control.  Eventually, the Obama people asked to purchase the page, Anthony gave them a price of $39,000.  Instead of negotiating a price, the Obama campaign claimed they did not have the money, accused Anthony of seeking a 'big pay day' and went to MySpace management and seized the page directly, losing 160,000 MySpace friends in the process.  Anthony is now embittered and speaking out about the campaign's treatment of him.

I don't know what happened on the campaign side.  It sounds like wires were crossed.  It's possible that the internet department actually didn't have the money in its budget, which is sad in terms of the campaign priorities.  It's possible that Chris or Scott was promising something without authority, or that someone is just lying.  Or maybe Joe Rospars or David Axelrod got involved and just demanded that the campaign control the page and acted as if the campaign was being blackmailed.  Regardless, it seems like there is a tone at work here, a tone that comes from the top.  

There is nothing unusual about such a conflict between the open world of Joe Anthony and the gatekeeping world of David Axelrod.  The open world is fairly relaxed and encourages sharing control and power with all stakeholders.  The gatekeeper world is all about control and turning everyone into a signholder.  The likely scenario here is that the Obama internet team promoted the unofficial page because it was cool and relaxed, and then adult supervision scared them into believing they needed control.  They put pressure on Anthony, who valued his own work.  The Obama campaign couldn't both stomach the need for control and the real moral need to value the work done by Anthony, and so it appears the campaign just lied and threatened him.  This is standard Democratic politics, only when you put it on the internet, it looks really bad.

I don't really know that this episode is particularly important in the context of who will win in 2008, but it is interesting.  This is the exact definition of a campaign treating people like an ATM.  And this brings me back to the movement that's being created, because while this seems like a small episode, it's actually events like this that in some ways help form our movement.  Joe Anthony will never forget this, and it's pretty obvious he's good at leading large groups of people.  Anthony will never trust campaign operatives again, and hopefully, he'll plug into the Democratic Party somewhere else.  

Jonathan Chait yesterday wrote about how the blogosphere was formed in the crucible of 2000.  That's not quite right.  The open left was formed in the wake of a series of events, starting with the impeachment (Moveon) and continuing probably until 2008.  The blogosphere is one of the manifestations of the open left, and it's a response to the institutional failure of the Democratic and media leadership to lead.  For some of us, like for Anthony in 2008, the way the 2004 campaigns operated were one of these shocks.

The Kerry campaign was a significant personal experience for many of us coming into politics for the first time from other professions.  It was there that we learned how unprofessional, arrogant, top-down, and dishonest most parts of the Democratic Party really were.  That experience was deeply embittering, especially because the Dean campaign had a much freer model of politics in terms of allowing citizens space to grow and wield power and the Kerry campaign did not.  

Obama is a symbol of what politics could be, which is why he's bringing in huge crowds, because the public wants a different type of politics and is willing to pay for it and support it with time, effort, and sweat.  We were a vanguard, and we had this moment too, in 1998, 2000, 2002, or 2004.  But like our experience of being rebuffed by a hostile Democratic Party, this new generation of Obama supporters is smashing smack dab into the old structures of power.  It's a bit ironic that the people they are smashing into are professionals from the Dean campaign, those who ran the DNC from 2005 onward.  But really, this is about architecture, not personality, and the person who bears responsibility for sitting atop a throne and hating on the activists who want to do things for him is Barack Obama, and to  a lesser extent, David Axelrod.

I've been criticizing Obama for several years, and the reason is because of I sense he surrounds himself with people who have this hostility to participation in politics.  I remember being screwed over by Democrats, consistently, from 2003 until I came to MyDD as an independent blogger.  I remember what it's like to be taken for granted, to be insulted, to be ripped off, to be lied to.  Its not a good thing, not just on a personal level, but on a structural level.  It's not a sustainable model of politics because it drives leaders like Joe Anthony away.  And fundamentally, we cannot win as a progressive movement until we stop this nonsense and actually buy into progressive structures that treat people well and act professionally.  I feel bad for the people in the Obama campaign who went through this.  They are under untenable pressure from higher-ups who don't respect them, and they don't have the leverage to really wield power.  I feel bad for Anthony, who went through what a lot of us went through over the last few years.  Eating shit is never fun.

My sense though is that 2008 is going to see a lot more of this kind of shoddy treatment of stakeholders.  A huge wave of new people are going to come into politics over the next few years, and they are going to smash into the same barriers we smashed into in 2002 and 2004.  Some of the leaders are going to feel betrayed, like we felt betrayed, and hopefully, they will join us in building a more people-powered movement that doesn't rely on media-driven cults of personality and top-down operators who lie, smear, and cheat.

Democratic campaigns cannot and should not be run based on lies and threats.  This is the old system.  I hope Obama takes some time to reassess his campaign and the way he interacts with supporters.  This should be a warning flag.


http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/5/2/13022/79334 ..> ..> ..>..>

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Do the Right Thing, Barack

 
Please Note:

This article was re-posted at our site with Matt Stoller's permission. It is about a month old, but we just came across it recently.
 
Posted by Do the Right Thing, Barack on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 2:16 PM
[Reply to this
uplandpoet
Anthony Watkins

 
thanks, papa2, I should have mentioned that.....
rookie mistake
 
Posted by uplandpoet on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 4:06 PM
[Reply to this
Papa2Girls

 
pssst not papa2 :::looking up::: 'o)

~another average joe
 
Posted by Papa2Girls on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 4:37 PM
[Reply to this
uplandpoet
Anthony Watkins

 
still careless, just looking at the logo:)
 
Posted by uplandpoet on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 7:23 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
While I don't think both sides are 100% correct on this, this article is biased. It leaves out the fact that Joe Anthony was the first to ask for financial reimbursement (he asked to be salaried employee), and later withdrew the campaign's previous password access after the url was already being used by the campaign as it's myspace presence.

I believe the way it came out with Joe keeping the friends list and the campaign having the url to begin their own page and friends list was fair.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 7:55 PM
[Reply to this
Serah

 
While keeping the facts accurate is always important, I don't find it particularly relevant who brought up the money first. What IS relevant is that Joe's work, and the work of the 160,000 friends on his page, was valuable and meaningful. The leaders in Obama's campaign completely dismissed that value and meaning by their actions.

Obama has an amazing vision for this country--and for this world; I just ask that he widen his vision a little to include netroots political empowerment for the average Joe.
 
Posted by Serah on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 7:29 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Sarah, I answered this below regarding the relevance.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 10:56 PM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
Blue, I swear, you're gonna drive me nuts.

You say this like asking for reimbursement was a horrible thing. It wasn't reimbursement. Nothing was retroactive. I asked to be paid if we were going to continue working together, because I was in serious danger of losing my job.

If I lost my job, I would've been homeless. I wanted to keep helping, so I asked to be paid in some way.

I didn't withdraw anything. I wasn't under any obligation to give them the password, and in fact it was prohibited by the terms of use. This is fact. These are all facts.

You must understand this by now, but you keep reposting the same comments over and over. You're like a campaign spin-bot. I'm not even convinced you're real.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 9:00 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
I understand where you were coming from, but also consider that as you said there was no obligation set in place, and the campaign also had the right to decide what options would work for them too. They offered you a chance to interview, though I understand why you might not want to uproot yourself.

However, by omitting this point, this article is presenting it like the campaign set you up, which I don't believe was the case.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record to you... the feeling's mutual. Like I said in the pm you sent me, I feel as long as you guys continue to present one side, I just want to keep things balanced and present the other perspective.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 9:28 PM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
The thing is, I was there and I know the facts. You weren't, and you're creating your own facts in an effort to rationalize the situation. Why did they suggest a one-time fee, and then use that against me to try to take over the profile, and then omit their suggestion later to make it appear as if I was trying to extort them?

There was nothing about their actions that was supportive or appreciative of me and my work over the past 2.5 years. Further, destroying the largest grassroots community in existence, which is exactly what they did, was certainly not supportive of grassroots organizers.

There is no disagreement here. There are the facts, and then there is your own distorted reality.

You don't support me, and you don't support the cause of this community, so what are you doing here? How would you feel if we all came to your personal page and left disrespectful comments to you?
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:20 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
sorry, I know this won't get us anywhere. If my side was more easily discredited I think you wouldn't see this as a pain. I'm here because this community continues to post in a public forum to discredit a candidate I think is being unfairly criticized. You all don't have to respond. Sometimes just having people state their position allows others to read then make up their own minds.

"How would you feel if we all came to your personal page and left disrespectful comments to you?"

I answered this in another blog... "so it's not ok to post a dissenting comments on a public forum?" that went unanswered.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:40 PM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
Your side IS very easilly discredited, but you just don't care.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:45 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Then you should have no problem getting voters together to write letters to the campaign with some specific request for resolution.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:08 PM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
They did. There have been hundreds, probably thousands of comments, emails, letters. . . all asking the campaign to do the right thing, and all were ignored by the campaign.

That is why this profile was created, and I'm going to stand by it because I think I, and everyone else upset by this situation has a voice, and should be heard.

If there's any criticism of this campaign, by the people in this community, it's constructive criticism.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:28 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Hundreds by different people would probably raise some concern, however do you know if that's the case? Everything I've seen (including comments in the links posted in these blogs) indicate this isn't a large issue to most people.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 1:58 AM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Joe below:

I'm glad you found some sympathizers. And to followup on your other comments below, yes I know there was a Newsweek article. Newsweek also ran a story highlighting McCain as the only candidate courageous enough to do what our country needs.

As I said before, I hope you find the resolution you're seeking (you still haven't said what that is). Now that I've helped baracket ;-P your blog to the top blogs section, no doubt, I think that's good for what... a grand?
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 5:16 AM
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
There were about 125 on the official profile, 500 (from various people) on the official blog, and some very credible blogs all over the net.

But who's counting. . . .

Many people forwarded me the emails sent to the campaign.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 2:51 AM
tara dactyl

 
We can't. Only friends of Blue's grassroots page can post comments on her blog. She wants to dish it out but can't take it. : D
 
Posted by tara dactyl on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:27 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
My page isn't set up as a controversial forum. It's for volunteers to share comments and experiences. If I ever post something on this topic, I'll be sure to invite you all and open it to the public. k?
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:43 PM
[Reply to this
tara dactyl

 
You know, you're much more of a weed than a garden.
Until you have anything new to say you should voice your concerns in a more appropriate forum. You're continually trying to portray us as Obama detractors and it's just not working. I've said repeatedly that you're more than welcome to disagree with us, but you're making yourself look bad by playing the same tune over and over. If you find a new song to sing, please share. Until then, though, I doubt you'll find any more sparring partners here.
 
Posted by tara dactyl on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 12:06 AM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Ditto. Maybe post an article that's more recent and mainstream? If this is such a big issue, then why have the other campaigns or even Faux news jumped on this as they did the muslim story?
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 2:03 AM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
So declining any interviews is helping your cause, but an article in Newsweek is to be celebrated?

I haven't told 1/2 truths, that was the original article's problem and the reason for my initial comment.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 5:39 AM
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
More mainstream, you say? See the link Archive in my blog.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 2:53 AM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
Blue, listen to the radio doc on searchengineradio.net (also posted in my blog).

This will help you have a better understanding of the situation.

I'll be in Seattle next week. You should buy me drinks for giving me such a hard time ; P
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 9:03 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Aw Joe, you know because I said so to you via pm and in other postings that I don't have any ill will towards you. As long as this group continues to push the issue, I think it's important to keep showing all perspectives. =)
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:19 PM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
Your perspective ignores any facts that don't support your opinions. That is why you've lost credibility with me.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:22 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
really? I've always used quotes from the techpresident (which favors your side of the story) and Joe R's blog to back my opinion. I'm sorry I just don't agree with you.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:47 PM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
Again, you're only picking out facts that suit your position (which is apparently to discredit me).

Was it right for the campaign to steal my page and then subtly libel me when they got caught? This is exactly what happened. That's not opinion, that's not perspective, that's fact, and there is proof.

The compensation or any other aspect is irrelevant. They stole the work of a volunteer (me), and then publically crapped all over me. But you don't agree. . .
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:57 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
If I remember correctly, you are a paralegal? so you would have a better understanding than most of your case in a libel suit. If you feel this strongly about it, then why not sue?
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:05 PM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
Because the pen is mightier than the sword, and I have no interest in taking money out of the hands of fellow supporters.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:31 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
joe below:

It's an incorrect assumption that I posted here because I hoped to change your mind or those that frequent the dtrtb blogs, and I didn't do so just to be a pain in your neck. When you post something like this that attempts to discredit a popular presidential candidate, how can you not expect those with different opinions to respond?

You spoke with Barack specifically about this subject on the phone, so I can't imagine how he doesn't know. Imho, it might serve this community better if it stopped hiding behind that veil of just trying to reach Barack, that you're just here to help him. He knows, so if you don't want to support Barack because of this incident, then that is certainly your right.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 5:35 AM
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
I support grassroots, and any individual or group who stands up for themselves and their country.

I do not support candidates that suppress them. The Obama campaign did not support me. They bullied me, tricked me, and publically defamed me when I fought back, and I do not support that. Maybe it was a mistake that Senator Obama is unaware of, and I think that one goal of this community, to raise awareness.

You may not share the same position as I do, but I am very passionate about this. If you don't support this cause, then please step aside because you're wasting your time.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 3:17 AM
Bluestem Garden

 
"fellow supporters"

So now you're a supporter again?
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 2:12 AM
tara dactyl

 
So move on. If you agree with the campaign's position, why are you doing all of this? I think somewhere you know that our cause has merit and you don't like it.
I thought we'd squashed this, but I'll say it again: you are not going to agree with us and we are not going to agree with you. You keep doing your work and we will keep doing ours.
 
Posted by tara dactyl on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:56 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
I think it has merit when not presented with all the facts.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:07 PM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
but, like, uh, you're the one not paying attention to the facts? lolz

Come visit some time and I'll share some emails with you.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:47 PM
[Reply to this
tara dactyl

 
You say: "[Joe] asked to be a salaried employee."
Joe R.'s blog says: "We knew Joe had a full-time job already, and, early on, we floated the idea of moving to Chicago to work for us full-time (potential staffers were moving to Chicago and join the team at that time, and there were openings)."
I say: Unless you diagree with Joe R., you're wrong here.

You say: "Joe Anthony was the first to ask for financial reimbursement."
Joe A.'s blog says: "Chris Hughes then suggested that they could offer some type of one-time fee to transfer the profile over to the campaign."
I say: I know you don't agree with Joe A. on this and I will not argue with you about it. But your assessment of the financial reimbursement is inconsequential in this forum.
 
Posted by tara dactyl on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 8:53 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
From the techpresident article linked above, based on the interview with Joe A: "As his volunteer workload grew to all hours, Anthony decided to email the Obama campaign asking to be paid in some way for his time."
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:13 PM
[Reply to this
Joe Anthony
Joe Anthony

 
Although this is irrelevant, it is true. I've stated this elsewhere.

Again, listen to the searchengine.net radio documentary for a better understanding of what happened.

Orrrrrrr, you can just take bits and pieces of the story and use them against me however you see fit.
 
Posted by Joe Anthony on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:33 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Comeon Joe, we've discussed this via pm and I laid out the timeline/events and you laid out your side. I think I have a good understanding on which I'm basing my opinion.

As for the request for salary being irrelevant, it's relevant because it began the negotiations. First with possible employment, then to consider their other options which included the possibility to buy the site, to which I think you both had vested interests in at that point.

Barack Obama called you himself, and a blog posted thanking you for your work on the original page and stated, "We want to dispel any negative rumors and make clear that Joe helped build a great profile and deserves to be thanked."

What else are you seeking if not to continue trying to discredit Obama?
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:02 PM
[Reply to this
PJ Public

 
>> As for the request for salary being irrelevant, it's relevant because it began the negotiations. <<


Joe A, please correct me if I'm wrong here, but from my understanding ....

----------

Blue,

What "began the negotiations" is the fact that the workload went through the roof. Until that happened, there wasn't anything to negotiate.

While I can see how your (Bluestem's) perspective can make sense if someone takes a narrow view of the situation, and doesn't look at the big picture ... that's exactly the problem ... not viewing the big picture does not give an accurate view of the situation. You (and others like you) don't seem to recognize or want to acknowledge that this didn't happen in a vacuum. That "requesting compensation" actually *wasn't* what "began the negotiations".

When they (the campaign and Joe A) setup their initial arrangement -- which seems to have been very informal and undocumented -- I have seen *no* indication from anybody that Joe A had signed up to do anything more than he had been doing the previous two years with the his unofficial Obama profile. The appearance has been that he simply signed-on to allowing the campaign to use his profile, so they wouldn't have to create their own. Whether that arrangement was intended to be permanent or temporary, is very unclear.

However, by simply allowing the campaign to use his site, does *NOT* mean Joe A also signed-up and/or "volunteered" and/or committed to doubling or tripling or quadrupling his workload. Nor does it mean he signed-up for loosing his job and/or having it adversely effected. Nor does it mean he signed-up to "volunteer" all of his personal time. Nor does it mean he signed-up or "volunteered" to have a pile of undone tasks always weighing him down and stressing him out, simply because there wasn't enough time in the day to get to it all. There is NO indication by anyone directly involved that Joe A signed up for any of those things.

Without an explicit statement on what this initial agreement was (by those involved), it is unreasonable to assume or assert that Joe A signed up for anything more than to simply continue doing what he already had been doing the previous two years. Including the same workload level, the same impact on his job (whatever that was), the same impact on his personal life (whatever that was), etc, etc.

However, yourself (and those like you) conveniently ignore this. You essentially assert that ... regardless that the workload went through the roof, regardless that the impact on Joe A's job increased substantially, regardless that the impact on Joe A's personal life increased substantially, regardless that the demands of the initial arrangement could no longer reasonably and sustainably be supported by one individual in their spare time ... regardless of all of this, you are essentially asserting that Joe A had no right to say "this isn't working" or "we can't keep doing things this way". You are essentially asserting that Joe A was still obligated to just deal with it, bite the bullet, and keep going anyhow -- even though that course of action would have likely resulted in him losing his job, losing his living quarters, and becoming homeless.

The fact that neither you, nor anyone else, would consider that a reasonable or appropriate outcome if you were in that situation, seems to make no difference to you. (I realize that it may simply be that you haven't consider things from this angle before, but that's for you to say, not me.)

The view you are pushing is that if someone offers/volunteers "A", they are also obligated to give "B", "C", "D", and anything else they have ... even though they never agreed to that, or intended it.

Another way to express this is that a person goes to volunteer their time some Saturday for a cause. The cause coordinator has the person stuff envelopes for a direct mailing they decide to do. There are 10 boxes each of envelopes and brochures. The person starts and finds she can stuff a box of envelopes in 1 hour. Realizing she can finish with all the boxes in the time she has available, the person tells the coordinator at lunch time that she will keep going until all the envelopes are stuffed. Then, in the afternoon, 40 more boxes each of envelopes and brochures show up. Since the person had committed to "keep going until all the envelopes are stuffed", the coordinator expects this person to come back on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday -- for four more 10 hour days -- to stuff the additional 40 boxes of envelopes.

In the view of the world that you promote, that person would be obligated to continue to come back for those four additional, 10 hour days -- regardless of what it costs them job-wise, personally, health-wise, etc. and without raising a red flag by saying "this isn't going to work", "this isn't what I volunteered for", "what you are expecting of me has changed dramatically, so my response to that needs to change as well".

When someone writes a check to a cause, it's not clear to me why you seem to think it's OK for the people in that cause to erase/white-out the original amount of that check, and write-in an amount five or ten times higher.

Can you explain this more to us? Can you help us understand why you seem to promote that erase-and-write-in-our-own-amount approach as an acceptable, ethical, and appropriate way of doing things?

~ PJ
 
Posted by PJ Public on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 12:40 AM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Ok, first I'm a troll then you continue to message me asking me to "continue the debate" You know, if I hadn't posted here to begin with, you would have no debate. You all complain about negative postings on your site yet this morning on Baracks:


" Jun 11 2007 9:07P

Moderator, since Obama's myspace page has been under new management the bulletins have gotten more dry and boring. What's going on? Its like your the campaign doesn't really know what young people want to hear or what they are interested in learning about.

Step up your game!"

This person is dtrtb, Joe and Hillary's friend... shocker.

Now I have acknowledge Joe's work for the campaign many times and do not negate that the work load became overwhelming with a full time job. When did Joe ask the campaign to help? What was the issue with giving the page to the campaign without the "some form of payment as a symbolic gesture" (Joe's words)

You say I do not look at all the facts, yet I see you only considering one side here. The campaign contacted Joe originally because he had the url using Barack's name. Joe wanted to volunteer so they said, ok...giving they have many other grassroots efforts this was another. Now there's no way Joe could have predicted (or even the campaign?) how much work the page turned into. So, yes I understand why Joe asked for a salary and have not criticized him doing so. However, did the campaign not have a vested interest in the page at that point? Joe withdrawing the password (for whatever reason) left them in a pretty tight spot. Neither side acted totally 100% in the right here, and if you want to hold it against the campaign, then that is your right. However, realize that others do not feel the same amount of injustice or validation for outrage towards the campaign as you, and it's not because we "don't know the facts."
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 4:12 PM
[Reply to this
tara dactyl

 
Blue,

Who said this?

"" I consider it spamming when a few of you from dotherightthing post multiple times a day on this site about the issue, make references to it on other blogs on this page, and answer multiple posters with essentially the same messge. Consider if someone came on your site stating "stop your freakin whining" ala the same vein you're doing on Obama's site... how long before you'd block them? You certaintly have a right to your opinion and that's what your blog is for! ""

I'll give you one guess.
 
Posted by tara dactyl on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 9:23 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Take a look again... the context there was two posters replying with the same statements to many different people who were replying the the original post. Here, I'm answering comments directed at me. Here's a thought...if you want me to not reply, then perhaps you should stop posting comments to me that further the discussion.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 10:53 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Tara below, noone else is posting because they've moved on...

Sorry you can't see the difference in replying to comments made directly to me and replying to people who didn't. As usual you've gone off to some petty squabble instead of directly responding to any points made on the topic.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 11:34 PM
tara dactyl

 
Are you kidding me?
You think that's a different situation? You, although you are only one person, reply to our blogs continually saying the same thing over and over and over... we have never posted a blog saying, "Blue, please give us your thoughts on _____." We do not solicit your responses, for obvious reasons. No one else gets on our blog and does this. You haven't inspired anyone else to follow your tactics. Here's a better thought: stop making yourself look ridiculous. This is our blog and we will defend our positions. Until you have some evidence or substantial opinion to contribute, fight the temptation to keep digging yourself this hole. You might never get out.
 
Posted by tara dactyl on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 11:18 PM
Serah

 
There is, in fact, a much larger debate raging, and Stoller's blog is one voice in it. There have been many other voices--here, as well as in the mainstream media. All one needs to do is Google a few terms like: Joe Anthony, MySpace, Obama, etc. and an unending list of articles on the subject pops up, with sources ranging from the Associated Press, to TechPresident, to MTV, to the Washington Post...and on and on.

And the issue doesn't start or end there. For example, in 2005, CNN published an excellent little article called "Netroots Activism Arrives," (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/05/bloggers/) which begins to tell the story of the emergence of a new kind of politics where real people have real power.

Another great example of this is "Time Magazine's Person of the Year: You" article in 2006 (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html). It describes ""a story about community and collaboration on a scale never seen before. It's about the cosmic compendium of knowledge Wikipedia and the million-channel people's network YouTube and the online metropolis MySpace."

The internet makes it easier for all kinds of people to interact with one another, join voices, and tell our leaders (and potential leaders) what is important in our world. Joe Anthony is an example of how well this kind of activism can work--and the Obama campaign has demonstrated how the old establishment is kicking and screaming against this progressive trend wherein so much power is being disseminated into the hands of We, the People...

The Joe Anthony-brand of leadership should be the new standard, and Obama should embrace it.
 
Posted by Serah on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 6:42 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
incidentally, isn't Stroller's article a month old as much of the debate is?
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 11:37 PM
[Reply to this
Bluestem Garden

 
Just to clarify, so I don't get accused of trolling...I'm assuming you are ok if I reply to your comments to me.

I agree with many of your statements that the internet is a powerful tool to connecting people with ideas. However, a couple points. First, myspace policy is that a person with celebrity/political status has a right to the url using their name. So when Joe was contacted originally by the campaign, it was agreed by all parties to allow Joe to continue the great work he was already doing under that url as a volunteer. It was after the workload became too much and Joe requested to enter a different arrangement that the campaign looked into all their options, being as they had a vested interest now in that page. Personally and as many others have said, many would have turned over the page when the workload became too much and been honored to have been a part of creating something of significance to the campaign.

Second, myspace is typically a second or third tier of information source. Every piece of info on the original Obama page originated from somewhere else. I didn't come to myspace to discover Barack. I added him because I was already a myspace member and thought it'd be fun to add Barack as a "friend." Some people may very well have found Barack here first, but again the information was reposted from original sources (like the campaign HQ)

This brings me to the third point that it's not the myspace url or information on it that had monetary value. The value was in Joe's time. This brings us back to the first point. (I hope things like free myspace urls never do attain monetary value, otherwise people will be racing to claim a url using famous people's name for potential profit)

Honestly, I don't see either side being malicious here and most of the outrage is stemming from opinions formed in hind-sight. Things get overly examined and perhaps blown out of proportion from the original intent. I think both sides could have handled things better, and Barack surely knows. For me, it's just not a big enough issue to question whether Barack is a good candidate.
 
Posted by Bluestem Garden on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 11:26 PM
[Reply to this
profitsforall

 
OK - THIS IS RIDICULOUS. I DON'T KNOW WHO THIS "BLUESTEM GARDEN" PERSON IS, BUT YOU GUYS JUST NEED TO STOP PLAYING INTO HIS/HER "GAME". just STOP responding to the person. Isn't is obvious that this person has no true and good intentions other than to continue to express his/her OPINION AS FACT!

Bluestem Garden - GREAT - Go Vote for Obama! Wonderful! It's a damn FREE country! Take your "FACTS" somewhere else and get OFF Joe Anthony's case. HOW MUCH TIME HAVE YOU DEVOTED TO OBAMA'S GRASSROOTS CAMPAIGN? HUH? HAVE YOU DEVOTED YOUR LIFE 24/7 TO being a part of "true change that is bigger than yourself? Have you? I HIGHLY DOUBT IT - BUT I HAVE! YES, I HAVE - NOT FOR AS LONG AS JOE HAS BUT I HAVE BECAUSE I BELIEVED OBAMA WHEN HE SAID "THIS CAMPAIGN IS ABOUT YOU - TELL US WHEN WE'RE DOING RIGHT AND TELL US WHEN WE AREN'T."

and, YES, I've spoken with Joe personally. You know why? because I wanted him to know that I TRULY KNEW how he FELT. I KNEW that this had NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY. I KNEW how it felt to be crushed by the very candidate and campaign that you believed in so much, because the EXACT THING HAPPENED TO ME. "MY STORY" did not and will not get out in the media as Joe's did (not by his own actions I might add). ACTUALLY, I was heading up a STATEWIDE grassroots campaign for this candidate - never been involved in politics before - thought i could truly change the world for my young children. I had MANY issues with how this campaign was being "run" b/c it clearly went against the "words" Obama used in his stump speeches. I JUST KNEW THAT OBAMA DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON IN HIS CAMPAIGN BECAUSE I WANTED TO BELIEVE IN HIM SO MUCH.

Let's just say, that for certain reasons that cannot be disclosed, I was not only able to send emails to the "campaign" I was able to TALK to people at the TOP OF THE CAMPAIGN about this terrible disaster that is "MYSPACEGATE" obviously i didn't talk to the senator, but i did everything humanly possible to actually reach him personally - can't elaborate on that. I actually talked to people that could have "made a difference" on this matter. Here's the deal - the campaign didn't care about JOE - they just wanted the myspace page. period. this is a PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN - BARACK OBAMA IS A POLITICIAN JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE - I.E. YOU DO WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO TO WIN. I wouldn't have a problem with that if he hadn't "presented" himself and this campaign as something DIFFERENT.

I personally went to bat for Joe even thought i didn't know him at all personally b/c I KNEW how much it was and is going to hurt this campaign down the road. I had many issues with the PR/media/website people even before this happened which I tried to warn them about.

I HAVE PROOF JUST LIKE JOE DOES. DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF OF THE REAL STORY? IF YOU DO THEN YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO WORKS FROM THE CAMPAIGN WHO IS "PLANTED HERE" WHICH WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME ONE BIT. IF YOU DON'T HAVE PROOF TO BACK UP YOUR"FACTS" THEN LEAVE THESE PEOPLE THE HELL ALONE AND FINE SOMETHING ELSE TO FOCUS ON - SERIOUSLY. You can have your own "truth" - but there is a REAL TRUTH that is validated with FACTS supported by EVIDENCE. I'm coming out here to say that I KNOW PROBABLY EVEN MORE THAN JOE DOES ABOUT THIS MATTER - SO NOW YOU HAVE ANOTHER PERSON WHO HAS "REAL TRUTH" ON THEIR SIDE.

I truly don't understand your issue. Joe has had many the opportunity to go out into the mainstream media and slam this campaign and he has chosen not to do that - in spite of what this campaign has done to him. That shows his true character. This campaign has bullied me and sent little "warnings" etc to me too. I didn't tell anyone for a long time and NO ONE will ever KNOW the DETAILS of "MY STORY" but I'm sick of standing by and letting YOU come here and BASH Joe Anthony and this sight because of YOUR OPINION. YOU'VE HAD MANY POSTS HERE TO SHARE YOUR OPINION - GOT IT - GREAT! YOU DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS A BIG DEAL - FINE...WHY ARE YOU STILL POSTING HERE?

You need to quit going around and attacking people's character, which no matter WHAT you SAY that is what you are doing to JOE and defending the ACTIONS OF THIS CAMPAIGN WHICH IS A DIRECT REFLECTION OF THE CANDIDATE. you don't know the FACTS. you are RIGHT about ONE thing - Obama DOES KNOW about this - OBVIOUSLY - he called Joe with nothing - no apology - nothing but a blog on the official website basically accusing him of being an "extortionist" - that is a FACT. Obama knows alright - he's knowns since the very end of April. It's mid- June - does anyone seriously think that he is going to "do the right thing now?" come on people - ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

I really do admire what you guys are trying to do on this site - I was once exactly where you were - I just knew in my heart that Obama didn't know how badly things were being run in his campaign, but I got an "up close and personal" view - which sucks for me as it does for Joe. But, I'm not going to sit here and watch "bluestem garden" post these postings that he/she KNOWS will bate people on this site, including my friend Joe and HAVE HIS BACK.

friends - ignore this person - seriously - there is absolutely no point in engaging in any form of communication with this person b/c the intent of his communication is not valid and true. remember, authenity and honesty always prevails over dishonesty and deceit.

bluestem - you can take this posting however you choose to - maliciously or not - my true intent is this #1 remind my friends here that they do not have to engage with you #2 ask you if YOU WERE THERE DURING ANY OF THE DISCUSSIONS JOE HAD WITH THE CAMPAIGN OR HAVE ANY OF THE DOCUMENTATION TO BACK UP JOE'S POSITIONS #3 ask you if YOU HAVE VOLUNTEERED YOUR TIME AND PASSION TO THIS CAMPAIGN 24/7 ONLY TO HAVE YOUR HEART BROKEN INTO A MILLION PIECES IN WHICH FREAKIN' $39,000 WOULD NOT EVEN BEGIN TO REMOTELY REPAIR and #4 tell you that another COMPLETELY 100%DEDICATED PASSIONATE GRASSROOTS SUPPORTER HAD THE EXACT THING HAPPEN TO THEM because they became "too much of a LIABILITY", EVEN THOUGH IT WAS NOT IN THE "PUBLIC EYE" SO TO SPEAK AND THAT I ALSO TALKED TO THE HIGHER UPS AT THE CAMPAIGN ABOUT THIS VERY SITUATION AND BELIEVE ME, THEY DO NOT CARE.
 
Posted by profitsforall on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 5:44 AM
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