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Jen Kober



Last Updated: 11/18/2009

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Status: Swinger
City: Hollywood
State: CA
Country: US
Signup Date: 9/27/2005

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Tuesday, June 02, 2009 
The Strife of Life with a Wife

With yesterday's PROP 8 ruling in California, I began to seethe and fester with anger at this administration.  I can't believe a state as progressive as California could uphold a law that is such a fundamental violation of civil rights.  I was pissed and loaded for bear.  So where did I go to vent all of these frustrations?  Facebook.  That's right.  I will update my status and let everyone know how I feel.  Certainly the wise members of this social network will feel my pain and unite with me in my misery and passionate discourse.  Or at least I could find somebody to argue with and get to vent all my thoughts on my laptop.  The following is the madness that ensued...

My original post said:

WTF? How are we letting IOWA be more progressive than us? Come on California! These are CIVIL RIGHTS!!!!!!!!

The bold type, capital letters and a bevy of exclamation points would certainly convey to everyone how upset I was over the decision. I got several thumbs up from folks who enjoyed reading the comment, and then the responses poured in....
Names have been changed to protect the guilty.

Jeff A. wrote: "I know I'm in the minority here, but there has to be another way that same-sex couples can get the rights they are denied in legal and medical situations without redefining the traditional meaning of the word marriage...I'm interested in solving this problem without destroying either group's interest."

I replied: "Why is the word MARRIAGE so important to you? You know you have a 55% divorce rate? I am married to my wife. We are not partners, girlfriends, roomates or experimenting. We are married. Deal with it. Start saying it. Get used to it. We are people. Just like you. We fell in love and we want to get MARRIED. We were raised with the same hopes of getting MARRIED that you were. When I get EQUAL rights and terminology then the problem will be solved and not a moment before."

Jeff A: "Jen, my interests do not wish to ban anyone from a (hopefully) life-long commitment to a loving partner, straight or gay. From a purely legal standpoint, how are we expected to uphold contractual responsibilities when one term (marriage) is being used to identify multiple unique relationships? You have every right to pursue happiness. I do to. We should respect each other rather than force our will onto the other. The only way we'll solve this is through mutual respect. Comments like "screw tradition" don't encourage someone like me to listen to opposing arguments."

Me: "I never said screw tradition. I am saying we should use one term. MARRIAGE. That's what it is. Marriage between two loving human beings. Have you ever been denied the right to do anything Jeff?"

Jeff A: "Jen, I joined the Marine Corps at 19 years of age...of course I've been denied what I want. Life is full of disappointments. That's life. If we work together (respecting each other's views and interests) we can find a mutually agreeable solution. It starts with you and me as friends, schoolmates, and fellow Americans."

(Now I remember this douchebag, we went to high school together.  He was a jerk then, and apparently that hasn't really changed much!)

Me: "Jeff, The Marine Corps is not exactly a haven for open mindedness or acceptance. Nor is it a place where I imagine homos to get a fair shake. You chose to go to the Marine Corps and you were denied some things you wanted. I get that. i am a law abiding tax paying citizen. Who is married to a woman. Married. Married. Married. Prop 8 may have passed, but I have a marriage license signed by the Terminator. I respect your right to express your views, but there is no mutually agreeable solution other than my marriage being legal and recognized in EVERY state. Just like it was unacceptable not to let women vote or blacks own property it is a violation of my CIVIL RIGHTS to deny me the right to MARRY the woman I love."

Jeff A: "Okay, so I get it that most of you disagree with the traditional definition of marriage. Since I believe in standards I ask you this: What are the legal criteria you suggest one must meet in order to reasonably guarantee a society focused on maintaining long-term relationships through marriage? I am not saying that most married people actually think this way, but if we are to change the way we look at marriage, let's make it better."

Me: "Jeff - Letting Gay people get married WOULD make it better. Jackass."

The argument got more heated when my sister-in-law (My wife's sister) jumped into the fight.  She went off on poor Jeff and I hear through the grapevine that he blocked us both on Facebook.  Well, so much for open dialogue.  But I did feel better.  I got lots of responses from straight folks, Christian folks, people young and old who were completely in SUPPORT of marriage equality.  I'm hoping Barack will just kick down the door of the Oval Office and say, "This is bullshit!  Let the gay people get married or I will put my foot in yo ass!"  Unlikely, but hey, this is my fantasy, I do what I want!

The final comment left said this, "Culture evolves, Jen. Patience, your day WILL come."
Amen, sister!
Currently listening:
So I Married An Axe Murderer: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
Release date: 1993-07-27
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Linda
Linda D

 
Sounds like a rough conversation, I am glad you got to release some frustration. This Prop 8... I do not know much about it except that it apparently bans same sex marriage...? I think that people need to join the new millenium and stop living in the dark ages. If a woman loves a woman or a man loves a man and wants to marry her/him, thats their business, not mine or anyone elses... love is love! Jen, you have my support, now and in the future! With that said... can I just say... you are awesome and hilarious!!! Hope to catch ya in our neighborhood sometime soon. You have NO idea how disappointed I was when I learned you were not coming to South Bend Indiana... maybe someday huh? A true fan... Linda
 
Posted by Linda on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 4:05 PM
[Reply to this
Cathe

 
yet one more reason why the Jen Kober Planet should exist- and I'd be running to move there. Rights- on! YES yes yes! It's so pathetic that these twisted fucktards use their 'beliefs' to make zero sense. I was in the Navy- and by the way.. token straight gal... so it was no secret to me that the world was unfair to my best friends who lived and loved each other. And, those gals could WOOP on some serious ass, too. Best soldiers EVER.  Growing up with a very hip dad- I didn't even KNOW there were straight people. Just thought everyone loved everyone. Wish that was true.. it is for me.

 
Posted by Cathe on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 4:05 PM
[Reply to this
Crone Witch
Joyce Jordan

 
Hrmph!  You have my vote, Jen.  *I* grew up with the concept that people grow up, fall in love and get married.. and live happily (or at least satisfyingly) ever after.  My Mom and Dad (both of whom have passed on, now) never pushed ANY type of gender arrangement.  They were pretty content to just let me be me, and discover life for MYSELF.  I'm straight.. but never HAD that definition at HOME... we were "love others, treat em as you'd LIKE to be treated"...   I think in today's world, that's more important than ever. 

And hey... Iowa's pretty cool.. there used to be a TREMENDOUSLY GOOD place in the Amana Colonies, called the OxYoke Inn... those cool farmers know how to eat!  And they also know that there are more important things in the world to be DEALING with, than whether or not the couple down the road is same sex or not.  I don't live in Iowa, but I have friends and distant relatives who DO...

More power to you, Jen.  My perfect world would be happy, sharing and loving... WITHOUT first checking everyone's gender identification.

Blessed Be!
CroneWitch/Joyce

 
Posted by Crone Witch on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 6:35 PM
[Reply to this
Tata Sabrina

 
Hey...you're on facebook? Oh back to the conversation at hand, I love how people who are pro-traditional marriage seem to sidestep sound arguments such as a 55% divorce rate. How sad is it that I was originally not a fan of (gay) marriage (i want as LITTLE government involvement as possible in my life), but not I feel compelled to speak out and identify as pro-gay marriage to fight the bigotry and hostility that seem to be fueling our political system? Love and peace to you AND your wife!
 
Posted by Tata Sabrina on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 6:35 PM
[Reply to this
Death Titan

 
To be honest I was shocked when I realised that it wasn't a federal (that's nationwide in the US isn't it?) ruling on allowing marriage between persons of any gender. I'll admit I felt a bit silly for not knowing, but I always pictured the US as a nation being more forward thinking than the UK; the debate over gay marriage was done by the time I was old enough to realise there was one.

I think the whole concept of the 'institution' of marriage being 'erroded' or 'reduced' or any negative verb people may use is frankly odd. In the UK we may be equal in marital rights, but whenever it comes on the TV news they say 'civil partnership' (although this refers to the legal condition of all marriages). I can't help but think that we, in the UK, have cheated a bit by using this term instead of marriage.

This Jeff fellow seems to be very careful in his tiptoing about, dropping his little "We should respect each other rather than force our will onto the other." comments. The man is a wolf in sheep's clothing (and not a very convincing disguise either) talking about not enforcing will and then denying a person's marriage be recognised by the state (and by extension, the community).

And as far as "redefining the traditional meaning of the word marriage". Taken literally, words are redifined constantly, it's part of the nature of our changing society, as your final facebook commenter so rightly said. Afterall, it's pretty much why you guys elected Obama, right?

Incidentally, I hope to get married in the future, although I happen to be hetrosexual, so no-one is going to accuse my love of affecting some ideal of a tradition or institution. Just as well for their own personal wellbeing, really.

-Nick

 
Posted by Death Titan on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 11:02 PM
[Reply to this
I voted Obama!

 
You know how they keep comparing Obama to Lincoln? Well, Lincoln made a very unpopular decsion that eventually shifted cultural norms when he was confronted with a human rights atrocity. Not that I'm comparing gays to slaves, but it's time he made the unpopular decision and stepped up for what is right. 
 
Posted by I voted Obama! on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 11:02 PM
[Reply to this
♥Ρérƒêç†Ιγ ΗàÞÞÝ Βèíñg ÎñÞêrƒêç†♥
Heather Murphy

 
Great post Jen! I wish I was able to vote on your states prop. But i live here in little old Ohio, I do hope that you feel better and that you can be patient and like you said above your day will come, when we live in a country we believe in again. until then rant all you want and make all kinds of noise, no one ever gets heard unless you make them hear you!

Ohio loves you and come see us soon!

 
Posted by ♥Ρérƒêç†Ιγ ΗàÞÞÝ Βèíñg ÎñÞêrƒêç†♥ on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 11:02 PM
[Reply to this
Katrina Brown

 
Your gays to slaves example isn't that far off.  In the days of slavery, slaves were not permitted to get married at all.  They weren't considered human, but rather property and why would property want marriage?  Even if they coupled off, had children, and lived AS a married couple it was illegal for them to get married.  Sound familiar?  Sickening, ain't it?

 
Posted by Katrina Brown on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 11:46 AM
[Reply to this
Katrina Brown

 
Okay, you know what? I DON'T GET IT.  I don't get the resistance and fear and stupidity from the masses about this topic.  WHAT in the HELL do heteros have against gay marriage?  WHY are they all of a sudden acting like it is SUCH a blessed and holy and respected union?  Notice how I say "They" like I'm not part of the "they"?  Fuck it.  I'm NOT part of THAT "they". 

Hetero marriage -- where a husband can take a wife and beat her.  Hetero marriage, where a wife can take a husband and screw all of his friends while he's off at work.  If heterosexual marriage was 100% successful and perfect and a guarantee that there would be NO DIVORCE and "they" were afraid y'all were going to fuck up some running average?  Okay okay.... I'd get it.  *I* think any two people 18 or over who want to try to swing the odds in favor of marriage being respected again? GO FOR IT. 

Know what it is, Jen?  I'll tell you what it is.  And I'll use you and your wife as an example:  You guys actually LOVE each other.  And you work together.  And you represent what a marriage is SUPPOSED to be, and that pisses off all the miserable heteros who are stomping their feet like the kid who got the generic play-doh for Christmas rather than the real thing.  Because in their narrow minded stupid heads they're thinking "Wait.  My marriage sucks.  Hows come THEIRS doesn't??  I know..... let's not let them get married so they don't make our miserable asses LOOK BAD."

Sorry.  I know this isn't a very humorous situation.  I'm just in awe of it.  I'm in awe of a society that wants to put conditions and rules and regulations on love -- who want to DENY LOVE.  Makes no sense to me.  AT. ALL.

 
Posted by Katrina Brown on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 11:47 AM
[Reply to this
Death Titan

 
I'm sorry to interject, but can you please not group hetrosexual people into one catagory of behaviour. I'm sure you mean just the people who are thinking and acting as you have described, but that isn't what you've said several times. People who are hetrosexual is a BIG demographic and I (and a great deal of others) don't want to be grouped with the percentage of those in Cali who supported Prop 8 (or are abusive spouses for that matter).

-Nick

 
Posted by Death Titan on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 12:12 PM
[Reply to this
Jason
Jason Riley

 
Jen, one thing you said stood out to me. something i tell all my friends and family. I have a boyfriend, not a "life partner"  not a "lover", a boyfriend, and, maybe, if im as lucky as u, someday i will have a Husband. i can not stand people who treat it like a separate species. we have normal relationships just like everyone else and i will not stand to be given different terms for whats fundamentally the same thing. You are amazing, and i hope you never change or give up!

 
Posted by Jason on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 7:48 PM
[Reply to this
Sarah Sol
Sarah Zimmitti sol

 
Prop 8 was a devastation. You know, back when this so called 'definition' of marriage was defined, it was absolutely NECESSARY for a woman to marry a man, regardless of affection, because she would have had no means of real income and owning property. In many cases of the old days, if not the majority, marriage was more a business arrangement between the parents of the bride and groom--NOT an honest declaration of love and commitment between consenting adults. Are we not PAST THAT YET????? Have we really NOT evolved??? So many obvious lawful FUCK-UPs in the history of our nation's civil rights have since been resolved. I don't understand how marriage between same-sex couples is still illegal. Its embarrassing. In as embarrassing as making it illegal for couples who do not share the same skin color to get married. As a newly-wed myself, if the government responsible for protecting my civil rights arbitrarily told me i could not marry my husband because *__enter_ANY_reason__* I would FLIP OUT and demand justice. and thats my rant.

 
Posted by Sarah Sol on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 1:25 PM
[Reply to this
TooMuchCoffeeMan

 
What a fart-head. By the way, "...I have a marriage license signed by the Terminator." had me laughing out loud. Sorry you had to dael with such a scumbag but i haope it helped you get a little of your frustration out.

 
Posted by TooMuchCoffeeMan on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 5:22 PM
[Reply to this
TooMuchCoffeeMan

 
who's dael and what is haope? sorry, I was half asleep when I wrote that, hehe.

 
Posted by TooMuchCoffeeMan on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 12:15 AM
[Reply to this
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