Try A Profile of Mathematical Logic By: Howard Delong
 

:) aha! my favourite question... so far :)
I believe we've come to a conclusion that there is a hope for us... cause we're not empty...
so there is always something we can do to change everything... we just have to really!!! want it! :)

however... "us" can't be everyone who claim to be human... hope is for people who see the endless changes in our world... and don't afraid of doing... :)

peace :)
 

um... what's subtract? :P Also, if you want your life to be fuøfilling. Look at Karma, do good things and good things will happen to you, do bad things and bad things will happen to you, what comes around goes around, Karma :)
 

Subtract Defined: To take away; deduct.
 

thanks :D

PS: that's an awesome hat
 

i found this so very interesting i had to share with some of my friends one of them being a mathematics professor and one a stock broker thanks for this post it's wonderful a. raven
 

This is a fantastic video. I find that most interesting.
 

Wow thats just amazing..would never have thought of life like that....thats really wierd...but cool at the same time...
 

Very cool, this is actually called the "Fibonacci sequence" in the video, it is part of the standard knowledge of "Phi = 1.618033988749895... the "Golden Ratio" or "Divine Proportion" it has been known for thousands of years & has been a common part of mathematics & geometry as well as master artists & crasftsman throughout history have used it. The Golden Ratio is seen through out all parts of life & reality, for example branches growing on a tree or the face of a sunflower or the growth of a shell as in the video all grow according to Phi. This is also part of the main mystical teachings of the Pythagoreans who used the basic symbol of the Pentagram because it has the Golden Ratio for more detailed info:

http://goldennumber.net/
 

Aaah... so cool that you are utilizing this video (initially my gift to you in comment sometime ago). I'm so happy that you see the beautiful significance of it!!
Yes, I think Life is represented by mathematics in cycles. Aaah... but it is not just the matter of adding more and subtracting less. With fabbricini sequencing and various algorithms, the inverse of any given result (a positive number decreasing down to zero) whereby the negative (or flip side) can continue into infinity. In which case, less can be more. For instance, in practical terms if we speak about such things as materialism, we may have the pleasant discovery that if we stop trying to accumulate so many "things," we will actually have more (more time, more space, more freedom, and etc). I'm sorry, I'm not very good at explaining this. I do hope that my point is made clearly enough. :)

Anyway, the mathematics of fractals can be seen in almost all things in nature.

The following was copied from Wikipedia - "fractal"

Approximate fractals are easily found in nature. These objects display self-similar structure over an extended, but finite, scale range. Examples include clouds, snow flakes, crystals, mountain ranges, lightning, river networks, cauliflower or broccoli, and systems of blood vessels and pulmonary vessels. Coastlines may be loosely considered fractal in nature
Trees and ferns are fractal in nature and can be modeled on a computer by using a recursive algorithm. This recursive nature is obvious in these examples — a branch from a tree or a frond from a fern is a miniature replica of the whole: not identical, but similar in nature.
 

Oops! Correction of my spelling: Fibonacci (not fabbricini).
;)
 

No my friend, life is FAR more than a mathematical equation. Mathematics is simply the language that the story of existence was written in. We, and indeed, all things, are far greater than the mere sum of our parts.
What is love? What is empathy? What is curiosity? What is passion? Wonder? Joy? Pain? Sorrow? All of these things could be described scientifically, mathematically even. Electromagnetic impulses, vibrations of energy at different frequencies, chemical reactions.....and so on and so forth. Yet that would not do them justice, just as simplifying life or existence into the confines of a cold, boxed in equation on a great cosmic blackboard does not do any justice to it.
No Emmanuel, we are far more than the coding we were written in. Just as characters in a novel or screenplay take on a life of their own, when their personalities and attributes transcend the written word their stories are told upon, when they touch our hearts and challenge our minds, so to do we become more in our struggles and endeavors. Just as a song is much more than the sum of a collection of chords and rhythms, beats and poetry, so it is with us and all things in time and space.
You are an agent of the great order of collective energy, as we all are. It is trying to understand itself, and collect itself. It needs you to garner as much data as possible and report back periodically by returning to the fold. Its best you enjoy your task as much as possible, and relish in the wonder of it all, just as we relish in newfound abilities when we learn them for the first time, or discover something new that we are good at. Remember when you figured out that part to that one song that just wouldnt come together before? Remember when you first made someone laugh, or brought a lover to orgasm? Its those moments that the collective energy seeks as a means to better understand itself. Thats it really. Our purpose as semi-conscious beings, flawed and imperfect as we are, only half aware usually. It is to live life as wonderfully as possible, and garner the most experience you can in your life, good or bad. When you learn, it learns, we learn.
That, and to constantly cycle energy. The more positively you channel it through you, the smoother the path before you ultimately becomes and the better balanced the collective whole will be.
 

Thanks Colin, very well written, but that was to be expected.

Well…

I did not say that my question and statement was life summed up, that would be a foolish simplification of things. Furthermore, I must say that the idea is a very good starting point, just like addition and subtraction was to all of us in preschool. I see this as a pulmonary exercise in the understanding of the concept of lateral thinking, which is why I asked the question and made the statement that coincide with the video. I hoped to encourage the creation of a foundation for some and place for the sharing of varying perspectives for others, and myself, both of which has occurred.

I am more knowledgeable today because of your comment and the comments of others and for that I am thankful.

Emmanuel
 

Its a grand concept indeed, much like all the rest of TOOLs artistry. It was very well put together I might add. Is it your work?

I heard rumors that their next album was to be one long song also based on this same notion, but then again, it could just as well be about foot fungus or or a spastic colon. You never know with those wacky bastards. I do know its gonna kick major ass though, whatever they do.

As for implying any "foolish"(?) oversimplification of things on your part, the wording of your question may have done that. You asked "Is life nothing but a mathematical equation?". While I do not believe that to be a foolish simplification of things neccessarily, as you yourself put it, it is a relatively straightforward question. To which the answer is simply, no.
However, the straightforwardness of the questions wording belies its abstract ability to get the philosophical ball rolling so to speak, to get peoples gears turning, and to get folks to question their realities. Any time we question the true nature of life, or existence in general, it has far greater dynamics and possibilities to it than the simple wording of it would imply, regardless of how the question itself is phrased. Nothing about your question was foolish or simple at all, nor did I intend my response to it to imply that I thought it was.

Its somewhat like the old "Plane on a Conveyor" postulate. The question goes like this: Lets say there is a plane of some sort, either jet propelled or propeller driven, that was docked and ready to take off from a runway. Said runway just so happens to be a giant conveyor belt, like a treadmill of sorts only much bigger. The plane is situated on free spinning wheels. If the conveyor/runway was calibrated to move opposite the planes takeoff heading or direction, and EXACTLY match the net output of the thrust mechanism of the plane at all times, so that if the plane increased power, the conveyor track increases power in equal measure in the opposite direction at any given time, could the plane take off?
Sounds like kind of a dumb, pointless question at first, and one that would be practically impossible to test in real life situations. A lot of people would bring up airflow and pressure variances and a plethora of other factors into it needlessly.
In fact though, this question is a great exercise in understanding basic principles of physics and and the natural laws that govern our everyday lives, specificaly gravity.
It has been debated by physicists and learned men of science for at least 50 years now, and it usually ends up in a heated argument as to whether or not the plane will take off. I have seen rather reserved and civil men and women become complete assholes and turn to name calling and other rude behavior over this seemingly simple, straightforward question. To date, no one has satisfactorily proved my answer and explaination to this question incorrect, but I will wait to say what that may be until some others have weighed in. Its a fun mental puzzle, a great thought experiment. Its simpler than you might think though, if you have knowledge of basic earth science principles.

Simplicity often belies the true splendor and grandure of great things to the untrained observer. The question: Why is the sky blue? is a good example of this. The answer is simple enough, yet it speaks to so many different aspects of our reality.
Simplicity is good. The greatest things in this existence are usually the simple ones. In the end, I believe the answer to the riddle of all things is indeed simple, though not easy at all to fully grasp, if it is even possible for our minds to do so.
 

“The greatest things in this existence are usually the simple ones. In the end, I believe the answer to the riddle of all things is indeed simple, though not easy at all to fully grasp, if it is even possible for our minds to do so.”


I agree with you Colin. However, I feel that our ability to grasp this concept is not so far reaching. Once our world was thought to be flat until it was evidenced to be round. At the time the concept of a round world was unfathomable and the idea scoffed at, but today it is simply common knowledge. Just like the meaning of all things will become someday. I intend for this place to be used as a conduit for complexities flow into simplicities and back again. So that you and I and others may move freely from one end to the other while building at least a basic understanding of things. Complexities conveyed complexly are useless to 99% of the population, because only 1% understand. Complexities conveyed simply are useful to 100% of the population, because 100% understand. These facts are why I believe that those who are willing to attempt to fully grasp the riddles of things will need a conduit for complexities flow into simplicities and back again. With the availability of this conduit those individuals will hopefully garner the ability to both communicate with each other complexly and convey the information that they learned to others simply. The meaning of all things cannot become common knowledge without teachers that convey complexities simply. However, this go between has yet to be created, and a question, with a “possible” answer of a simple no, can be one of many plausible catalysts for its creation.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

Now back to the main blog with a twist: Is there hope for you and I, singular entities with voices, separated by the void, that whisper the warnings of calamity? There is no hope without the conduit that connects complexities to simplicities.
 

I guess what I am trying to saying is that we all need to work together to create a method

It's just not good enough to be aware frozen in fear.
 

Its not good enough for us on this level perhaps, yet that fear you feel is a natural part of existence nonetheless. It hurts you, and I, and others like us to see what we perceive to be travesties of consciousness and justice in this life, in this world. However, we often fail to realize that the here and now, and the physical space we call home at the moment is such a small part of reality, and our day to day struggles for knowledge and peace are all a part of the equation in the end. Perhaps it is the very ignorance in others that drives us further towards our goal of knowledge, in which case, that seemingly senseless and ignorant mass of humanity is serving its purpose somehow within the confines of the "equation". Perhaps these obsticals were put in place to help guide us to a truth all our own, or to help us to help solve the riddle of existence for itself. I firmly believe that all of this, meaning existence, is simply energy trying to understand itself. In doing so, it devises tests to run against, to quiz itself from all angles and all ranges of possibilites to better understand its true nature. This may or may not be the case in actuality, but it seems to make sense of the senseless.

You have a mighty heart and mind Emmanuel, and you quest to redeem and awaken the rest of the sleeping masses to the err of their ways is truly noble and selfless. Yet they must want to be awakened for you to see the fruits of your labor ripen. They must be willing to acknowledge things beyond the confines of normal everyday reality. Further, they must be able to comprehend what those riddles and answers might be, and the consequences that come from knowing these things. I for one doubt that many, if not most are even capable of doing so. Lets face it, there are those that are so full of fear, or hate, or self rightiousness that they can not see the truth of themselves, much less for the rest of the world around them. I think the best we can hope for at the moment is to do the digging for ourselves, and put the information we garner out there for those who are also seeking it. Make available what you know to those who may find it of value, rather than to try to bring everyone together on this, which could be disasterous and derail it for those of us who want to be here, involved in this quest. Take comfort in the fact that in the end, everyone will find out one way or another what it is to be a part of existence. In the end, when we all return to the fold, we may all understand the true nature of things once and for all. Right now though, this conundrum is bigger than any one person or group can hope to fully reason with. I think the best we can do is chip away at it and build on the knowledge we have gained thus far, and to pass that along to others in their own quests for answers.

Maybe it really is enough to be aware, as long as we use that awareness in positive ways. You fear a calamity, a global distaster of epic proportions that threatens life on this planet. However, that is a problem far greater than you or I or indeed the whole human race can tackle. The mechanisms of said disater were put in place long, long ago, the rules written in the very code of nature itself, and it will take more than global awareness to stop the ball at this point.
Did you ever stop to consider that this may be all a part of a master plan? That this suffering and chaos serves a very real and higher purpose. That what seems senseless to us on this level may make perfect sense in the grand equation beyond our realm of comprehention. Or maybe that this is all a test for us individually, to see where our strengths lie so that when we move on to a higher stage of our existence we might be better placed along the way according to our worth or abilites that we demonstrated here ( sound familiar?).

As much as I would like to see all the pollution cleansed away, all of the hate disappated into the void never to return again, and all of the ugliness of mankinds greed to be washed away forever, I dont think it is possible as long as we are confined to our physical beings. Like I said, people have to be willing to make the tough changes. Many if not most are incapable of doing that. Are you and I even capable of it? Could you give up your art, your music, for this goal of yours if it was called for you to do so?
Again, I believe the best you and I and the others out on this limb can hope for is a better personal understanding of things, and maybe to help others along the way if they so choose to be helped. The rest will come along in due time, for one reason or another. In the end, there is no choice but to progress as the wave of time and energy that we are all a part of flows forever forward to its ultimate goal. I am not trying to disuade you from your objective, just to put more of a pragmatic viewpoint out there since you asked me.

For what its worth, I think your on the right path, at least for yourself, and your intentions are very beautiful and selfless. For that, I respect you immensely. You ask tough questions, and seek answers where others fear to delve. You are evolving. Relish in that for awhile. There is some comfort in knowing that about yourself.
 

Colin I feel that there are three types of people out there.

The aware

The unaware

Those who don’t give a fuck!

You are aware of things, so I’m sure that most messages are rarely lost to you. What if you had not suffered enough to be blessed with that awareness? Who would you be right now? Unaware. Not giving a fuck. Which one?

I am happy to be aware of things. I embrace the strife that it causes me, because I feel the alternatives are unacceptable. If I were alone and unaware I would love for someone to inform me clearly and in a way that is not beyond my comprehension, so that I may grow to become one of the aware and build upon that awareness as a collective. It’s not good enough to be alone and aware. Just like it’s not okay to leave someone alone and unaware. Fear lives in both places without the help of others. We are pack animals and that is why we search for lovers and friends. We work better as a collective, always.

It’s not about reaching everyone; it’s about reaching those who want to be reached, those who are unaware that there is someone reaching for them.

We need The Method.
 

Suffered? I actually died to get this knowledge. Yes, I suffered quite a bit to gain my awareness of such things. Had I not endured such ordeals, who knows. Perhaps it was the latent sense of all of this to begin with that helped pull me through the tough times, and I would still be on the same path, perhaps just not as far along. I dont think I am the kind that does not give a fuck. I always cared for things besides myself, usually much more than I care for myself, for as long as I can remember. Selflessness is in my nature I believe. Thats not to say I am a Jesus or Mother Theresa figure, but I have always had great empathy for the world.

So, then, on to this method you wish to develop. What then, if it would require you to give up your art, your current occupation, and your current ties to the life you now know and to the thing in that life that you cherish the most? Would you still pursue it then, at all costs? You never answered that question, and it is an important one. I am not saying that it is neccessarily the case, but to a degree, we must all make some very tough sacrifices to get to the point you are looking for. How much are you willing to bleed for this. How much dirt and blood are you willing to get on your hands to speed up the process? Further, there are those entities out there who's interests it is to actively stop others from becoming aware. What oh what to do about them? Are you willing to die for this cause of yours? Or kill for it if need be?

Point being, the further you delve into the abyss of the unknown, the more the variables change. Revolution, which is what you are after in a sense, is not clean, easy or pretty, especially on the magnitude you are seeking. Not all minds will be so willing to come along to your side of the argument, even if they are as aware as you are. You want to craft a method by which lost souls can gain a foothold on the path to awareness, but as it is true in every other aspect of our world, what works for some will not always work for others.

What I am trying to say, is that there is no ONE method that will encapsulate everyone equally. In most cases, it must be custom taylored to the individual needs of each person you are trying to bring into this grand scheme of awareness. I am not telling you your quest will fail, just that it may need to be altered and reexamined some, and there is going to be many roadblocks along the way. This journey of yours will undoubtedly take the remainder of your life, and as with most things of this magnitude, it may take much longer than you have to see it to completion. It may very well span several generations. If we even have that time left to do so. Dont be suprised if you do not see this happen in your mortal lifetime. Still, there is no harm in getting the ball rolling on this, of which you have done so already. The seeds have been planted. How long they will take to reach fruition is another matter entirely. You may have to content yourself with just being a part of the process, rather than seeing the final results for yourself.

But I will say this again. Since we are all cut from the same cloth, connected to everything else in existence, we ultimately have no choice but to progress as the fabric of existence moves forward on its own accord. We can either move with the current through our awareness of it, or be swept up by it. Either way, everything will come into its own eventually. It is inevitable.
 

For a better understanding of what I mean by The Method:

I will use Tool as an example. They don’t readily admit it, but they have a method.
I remember reading a Tool blog where a number of Tool fans were bashing their latest album because of its supposed commercial qualities. What these people had forgotten or never learned was that Tool exists to convey a message and that message does not have to be immersed in abstract complexity. Like I wrote above, complexities conveyed complexly are of no use to far to many people. That is if ones goal is to change the hearts and minds of many and I believe that that is Tool’s goal. They my not admit it, in fact I have heard them deny it completely, however it does not take a lot of digging to realize that they preach like a reverend to the flock. Their denials and evasiveness are the method. Hardcore Tool fans are generally anti-establishment, sceptic types. Some are immersed in abstract thought intertwined with a twist of egocentrism and arrogance. These people do not like being preached to. To get around this reality and embrace a broader partially unaware audience, Tool conveys their message subliminally shadowed by the guise that is the method. It’s not just for the aware, it also for the unaware. Tool’s Method is a careful balancing act and I see it working. It’s selfless.

The video above is a further simplification that reaches an even broader audience. There are thousands, that if it were not for the video, they would be further away from the awareness that they did not know that they were seeking. That is a beautiful thing, which is commendable. I applaud both Tool and the individual with the foresight to create that video that has lent a helping hand in the spread of awareness.
 

Additionally, I agree that some are meant to comprehend, but I do not agree that others are not. Let’s just say that they are not quite there yet. Those who are meant to understand will get it "if" they hear it. That's a big IF, the reason? Most who are aware do not know how to convey their awareness to people who do not process information similarly. This is where the creation of the Method becomes very important for the growth of awareness. We all know how to communicate, but can you communicate what you have written in this blog to someone who is not like yourself? Someone who is in the preliminary stages of understanding these concepts? Try it! I'm sure you know what kind of reaction you will get. Keep in mind that their reaction will not necessarily coincide with what their hearts desire. The information you relayed was in a different language, so that person did not understand it. The Method is the conduit between you and that person. Once the conduit is created, a connection can be established. When the connection is made between you and that person, he or she may one day grow to understand as you do. Do as you did with them by connecting with others and join in the collective effort that is “The Method”.

No more reasons why it can work, that’s fear talking.
 

It all depends on how you define life and the nature of it I suppose. Indeed the foundation of physical nature is built upon the grand architecture of mathematics. I was speaking more along the lines of the spiritual notion of life, not so much the organic. Technically, we can break down everything in the physical universe to a quantum level, where it mathematical composition shines through. As you pointed out, we can see this on our level as well, from flower petals to galaxy swirls. However, our existence is much more than a physical one. Its one of notion, of idea. These are abstract constructs in this realm of beingness, unable to be readily defined mathematically. To define the soul in terms of straightforward mathematical value is to do it no justice whatsoever. That was my point.
As per the wording of the initial question, which I took to be addressing the nature of life in terms of the spirit, based on who was asking, I stand by my answer of no. That life cannot be defined mathematically. Nature yes, life in a spiritual sense, no. The spirit within us that seeks this knowledge is of a higher order than physical reality. It transcends the laws of physical nature. Perhaps it manifests nature to give itself shape and form as a way to better understanding itself, but spirit is energy, unable to be narrowly defined with any numerical constants or values. And that is part of its beauty.

I must say though, that your post was rather well written and articulated. You have spent much time it appears, on this subject, and it shows. I am sure I speak for Emmanuel as well as myself when I say thank you for contributing. Any other ideas on this subject? Any input is always greatly appreciated.
 

If we acquired the knowledge to answer all of these questions, or were simply given the answers, what strive for life or even personal growth would be left?

I read a quote a while back, author unknown: Perhaps the only reason why God exists is for us to create him.
Mathematics being the language the universe was written in is a vastly overused explanation. Mathematics and Science are Man-made terms we created to attempt to grasp what is going on within this world, other worlds, and ourselves. In fact, the components of the human body {and any creature for that matter} are quite parallel {though perhaps not identical} to the planet. Cells being people, cancers and disease being famine, wars, global warming, and natural disasters- in fact, the ratio of our own bodies water weight is much like that of the earth's. Yes, that is science. One thing that has not been taken into account in this conversation is Evolution and Humanity.
and only one of those can be explained with Science and Mathematics.
I cannot agree that channeling positive energy creates a smoother path- for each of us are bestowed with certain attributes that are purposeful to either masses or singular individuals. Sometimes even suffering for the greater good. Lessons learned.
But, in the end, each are connected in the grand spider web of this particular plane.

There is always hope when the strive for change exists.

And the distance between each of us is only a matter of numbers.

It just depends on if you have the ability to go from point A to point B....or if it will be required for you to journey 28 fold to get back to B.

The void is an illusion whose size is measured only by our minds.

{i tried to hit up several points in this blog and hope it isn't too scattered, I'm not a novelist :) }
 

Awesome!! I agree completely!
 

Yes Emmanuel, the Fibonacci sequence is something that has always fascinated me and Tool just happens to be one of the great bands that chooses to embrace the wonders behind these mathematical functions. Everything in the entire universe can be broken down mathematically, from the milky way to a simple plant leaf. Our DNA even. Its a fascinating thing really, but it will lead you to no end...a spiral if you will. I suggest watching the movie Pi too, which is titled by just the symbol for Pi. Just like its main character though, it can drive one mad trying to find the meaning behind it all. So to answer the question in the blog's title: Yes, it is one big mathematical equation, but perhaps a bit more complicated than that. And to answer the second question "is there hope for you and I?": Hope meaning what really? Hope that we should embrace these findings, hope that we should learn that we are all connected? Hope for you and I to do or be what? Many questions are raised by this one. I think for there to be any hope for you and I, the entire world of people would have to open its mind and be prepared to dive into the possibilities that could be revealed if we choose to believe we are all connected.

Thats just my two cents on the subject though. :)

By the way, I got to see Lateralus live from about 20 feet from the stage. I've never rocked out so hard in my life :P Dani
 

Oh and I do agree with Colin. It is indeed way more complicated than mathematics. For instance, who can say that our imaginations are mathematical equations. But, if one chooses to look for it, you can find equations in everything. Physically, everything can be broken down into mathematical equations but like I said before, it gets much more complicated beyond that. We will never know the answers to all of these questions, but why would we want to?

Okay, thats all I got for now.
 

Very interesting video. Probably, everything in life seems like it's an equation. But, I don't know, there won't be a simple answer. Because, here, on Earth everything is so complicated, for somebody. And others think that it's easy. And there - in space - there is nothing. Just emptiness. And only this one thought can break the person's mind. And thinking about this you understand, that life is too hard to define for a man who is unassisted. And the assistent is from far away.
 

Is life a mathematic equation? I would say no. Nature....yes (which we belong to) but life in my opinion is more complex.
"Life is mathematics in cycles, add more and subtract less and you will have a fulfilling existence." Maybe we should subtract more in order to evolve to the next step. Something is holding us back. Add only ahead of us...subtract behind.

Sometimes I wonder why. Do we really want all of the world united. Would it every work? I have enough trouble sometimes just uniting with my husband and family let alone a flock.

Sometimes I want to just be. My own spiral. Strive to go where I haven't been before. Take it for what it is worth. Grow from the experience. Constantly change and personally evolve into a better being. Always see things from many angles, while enjoying the ride and not forgetting about who I am at the present. Enjoy who we are for we may never again be this. We may be something better but I still want to enjoy what the present has given me from the past to build on in the future.

Anyway just some rambling thoughts. I will be back later. Thank you for a place to put my opinions. Sometimes being in a family opinions tend to meld together and get lost. It is nice to redefine (or try to) some of my own.
 

"Is life nothing but a mathematic equation?"

:) define "life".

if referring to strictly physical life, i'm compelled to say yes, in a sense. i'm under the impression that mathematics is the key to understanding the "machine" of physical reality. makes me wish i was a mathematician.. kind of.. :) can't cycles and cycles within those cycles, once realized, be laid out in equation to form a kind of road map for future events?

wait. this is simpler. one doesn't have to know the inner workings of a cars engine in order to drive it. if we WANT to know, information is available. the same with this existence. mathematics, i believe, is the "instruction manual" to understanding how this existence operates.

however,

if referring to spiritual life, i'd say no way. does anything to base mathematics on exist on a spiritual level? time? speed? mass? so how could an equation be applied to it outside of "1"? this leads me to believe that spirituality/consciousness would be the monkey-wrench of the random that requires the equation of the physical to reconfigure itself.

all in all, i'd say physical life is an equation constantly fluctuating due to the manifested realities of spirituality/consciousness.

these are just my thoughts on it, though. i'm, by no means, a scholar, or anything, so any feedback is appreciated. does this make ANY sense?


thanks!
seven
 

I agree again!

We all agree!

But still nothing on my question regarding The Method...
 

wow, there's a lot to think about here!

i have some questions about "balance". wouldn't it be considered a physical characteristic? we being part of a whole, a universal oneness/consciousness that encompasses all, would it be possible to NEED balance in the spiritual realm of "one"?

that being said, lets take a look at balance in the physical. balance in the physical strikes me as something that's naturally maintained. think of it as positive/negative as apposed to good/evil. all is balanced based on a foundation of mathematics.

then we introduce the randomness of human consciousness. now we have a learning, growing, FEELING aspect interacting with the logical mathematical process. there goes the neighborhood, my friends. :) for some reason, along the way, we've lost awareness of who/what we are. we've come to believe that we are masters of the physical, as apposed to care-takers. i think that feeling we all have, driving us to discussions like these, is a deep seeded yearning to really experience that oneness while we're manifested in this physical reality.

which brings us to "the method"

ok, i've got nothing new on this one. :) i'm falling back on a previous conversation between you and i, emmanuel, to give my thought on it.

----

from "Clarification (Step 2)"

"Magnificent!

If only everyone understood the potential that they hold inside, the solace that is within their reach.

We can shatter the binds that hold us down and crush the void within.

But the conflict between the lies that we hear and the truths of our subconscious holds us back within the void. Preventing us from making true connects with one another.

How can we harness the strength to truly communicate even with those who float upon the surface of things, alone and unaware?


Emmanuel




we have to look inward, first, in order to realize the whole truth. the things we face in this reality are substantial. the main truth is in the realization that we are, indeed, all in this together. when we come to this conclusion inside ourselves, we open our eyes to a new world. we view it and we KNOW we're all together. we literally see the web of lies all around us as more and more truths reveal themselves. we can begin to rejoice, knowing that it's all coming apart. we see the light. we see that it's in us. that same light attracts those who're lonely and unaware. we just need to let them see it.

we treat others as family, or long lost friends. they are. all of them. we live the truth we've discovered. the lost will come due to the nature of humanity. we need light. we need each other. most are afraid to show it, convinced of it's weakness by those intending to keep us from this truth. but deep down, we all feel it.

could this be the empty feeling inside? the loss of the connection with each other?

we live in the truth, despite being surrounded by the lie. that's how we communicate.
that's how I feel. what do you think?


Seven"

----

i feel this is an example of an easy answer that's hard to comprehend. to KNOW these things is good. to REALLY incorporate them into your physical, exposed reality is progress. the trouble i have is the personal change that goes with it. while i AM making progress, it's a hard road, letting go of all the negative that's held me back. i told a dear friend of mine, recently, that i related it to a type of "death". a process of killing off a part of myself that was, in all actuality, NOT myself, but a series of learned responses to the events of physical life.

while i've still got a LONG way to go, people close to me do notice a change in me. most have asked me about it. SOME found a truth in their aspect of what i'd shared with them and decided to seek more of their own truths.

i force nothing, as i only know my interpretation of ideas and my perspectives. i do my damnedest to disregard thoughts provoked by ego, as they benefit nothing but a degree of separation between myself and others. i'm trying VERY hard to live in love. to treat others as i'd like to be treated. to respect all, regardless of difference of opinion. to experience complete HARMONY.

while the journey i've chosen APPEARS to be a long one, the path taking me to that destination is proving to be as beautiful as the concept of the destination itself.

seven
 

what method?
 

17 comments above yours I talk of The Method in my conversation with Colin.
 

stop following our path and choose our own? Sorry, i cannot. Fate was given me a path. And i must follow it, or face the consuquence(s)
 

fate, to me, describes the destination of your life based on the choices you've made through it.
 

sorry Seven, but but God has already given me a path. He gave me a choice, and i tok his offer. imo of course
 

So many answers on this page, possibly all wrong, most likely all true--so very few things truly negate each other, and only appear opposite when they are really only different aspects of the same, no more than the sky is blue, and yet not really blue at all, and we'd have to consider the idea of sky and of blue, and the perception of blue, and whether we all see it blue the same way, and the precise science setting blue light at a certain wavelength, and whether blue actually exists if an animal brain cannot distinguish "blue", and is reality then subjective or objective, does the wavelength have value in itself or just the value we assign to it, does it exist, but without distinction from any other, is blue a reality or just the description we give this reality to assign it a value. Is mathematics an a-priori reality or a description of reality: is life a mathematical equation or is the equation how we choose to describe life in order to assign it a value in a framework we can comprehend.

We go on, sheathed in spiderwebs of questions we try to unravel but in which we only get more tangled, on a quest for an iridescent connection of everything to everything, the Oneness, the Unifying Theory, the Ultimate Truth, and walk down the labyrinth(s) of existence, which may be real and endlessly complex or so simple we cannot accept it, or maybe an illusion created by bored gods or energy testing itself or the excruciatingly beautiful fractal growth of thoughts, and we explore words, sounds, numbers, worlds of ideas (What are these ideas? Spiritual manifestations--we are more than the sum of our parts? Or just neurons firing, chemicals, electricity, effects of physical processes in very concrete organic masses, quantifiable in numbers, molecules, atoms, quarks, gluons, and down we go again, until particles behave like waves... Energy... Physical? Spiritual? Both? All of it? None of it? Back to the confusion, illusion, start again from zero--what's zero--in the circular nature of our answers, the cyclical essence of our questions). We can get lost in mazes of paradoxes, some steadily walking towards the goal they are sure is there, some believing in some master plan we cannot discern, some following the path fate has laid down for them, some creating a fateless future with every free-will choice, some laterally switching to grow like spiraling green tendrils in the intimate richness of the shaded forests of life, some searching for something unknown, elusive but palpable; and yet more walk down their own corridors and through open doorways to cross paths treaded by others (will you walk with me for a while? or must we search alone?)... And at the end of our individual roads, some will go on to different planes, some return to the source, some just return, some reshape, some, having no desire to live forever, will just die and become compost and nourish other lifeforms, some will go on to be with the god who created them in his image, others would not be surprised that they won't meet the god mankind created in its image.

But quite likely none will have the answer.

We are thirsty and cannot drink enough water. We cannot reach the highest plane of existence, we cannot find the ultimate equation of everything, we cannot satisfy this achingly beautiful need to KNOW.

Does it matter? Does any of this matter to my black cat, is it essential to his existing and in carrying out his full black cat existence? Is awareness of the nature of an essence necessary to realize such essence? Is our search for truth, for knowledge, necessary to humanity? If so, does that mean that in humans or questioning beings existence, life, is different than life in beings that do not? Life is life, and it would seem illogical that it would be different in the modality of actualizaton in us versus tomatoes. Energy is energy.

I find the answer that it doesn't matter inexorable, but I'm aware that I try to suppress it, because ironically I'm here with you all, yes, even those of you who feel rather sure of their beliefs, but perhaps not sure enough not to be here. I'm thirsty, so are you. We have hope, you and I, even though we cannot entirely say what we hope for. Which is not to say that there IS hope we'll ever achieve what each of us believe/think/feel should be attained. Yet I do not feel sad, quite the contrary... Unlike the character in Pi (yes, excellent movie: one of my favorites!), I find a certain joy in not arriving at the destination, a tantalizing beauty in the ever-changing journey of discovery, in the unknown element, in each new pattern we recognize, in every connection we make, in knowing that tomorrow will bring more questions, more discoveries, and some randomness, real or perceived. And never the regret of being omniscient.

And in the spirit of less is more... I emptied my kitchen and bathroom drawers and cabinets when I repainted them in summer, and I couldn't get myself to refill them. I dropped most stuff at a local charity, boxes and boxes of things I'll never miss. I don't know what was in most boxes. My drawers are still empty. I love their emptiness more than I ever loved any of their previous content. I'm going through rooms, and giving away as many things as I can, and with everything that leaves my life, I breathe better...

Sorry about this rather incoherent rant... I haven't slept much in a long time and I think it's affecting me...
 

Yes, this was beautiful to read and take in.

Do we even need to be aware of the whole path in order to come around full circle? Is it even meant for us to know such things? Or are we just vessels who carry bits and pieces of the puzzle on the journey to bring it all back together again?

And so the mystery deepens with each layer we peel back it seems. Or does it?
 

Fantastic!!

I think I’m in love dear friend!

I agree with your “incoherent rant”.

With all that you have said, I think it is time to come up with our own Method.

Who has the courage to try or should we continue to spiral?
 

A great many answers, questions, and thoughts are found within. Do we really have the ability to find the energy that drives this human vessel? The energy does not die. The vessel fades and dissipates. The energy remains. How does one find the explanation of the energy that drives this vessel, and for that matter all things. You can not see, touch, smell, hear, or taste this energy. Do we go on these quests just to permeate the longevity of this human form? Just to ease the fear of the demise? I say why have fear, embrace it, for at that moment you will know more than the wisest of all here.
 

"No more reasons why it can work, that’s fear talking."

The computers that we are using right now to communicate this dialog back and forth are made entirely of either minerals that are strip mined out of the earth, or toxic petro chemicals. In fact, every aspect of life in western civilization in this, the 21st century, is directly tied to the problems roadblocking your quest for a grand Method. How much waste and pollution is generated by a Tool concert, or Jaw show? My own profession creates its fair share of pollution and destruction to the natural world, and then some. It bothers the hell out of me, especially lately. Our food, our living spaces, our communication and transportation systems all form an intricate web that tethers us to the construct of this artificial reality we have created for ourselves. How much of this life that you have always known are you willing to let go of to go a step further on the path to greater awareness? You wish to make others aware of something you yourself cannot yet bridge fully, only observe and wonder at from a distance.
How much of your life and lifestyle are you willing to wager on this, or set aside to navigate around as you move on to the next stage of awareness? How far into the abyss of the unknown are you willing to look into.? When does it stop being safe to do so? We can take risks, but only when we know the stakes. How much sanity and sense of self are you willing to gamble with on this quest of yours?
We are not yet fully sure ourselves what it is exactly that we are trying to become aware of, so then how do we guide other people with catch all methods to something we havent even fully understood or acknowledged yet?
And what do you do when the journey gets really ugly, when you uncover the horrible truths of possibilty that must be confronted along the way, as we ride the spiral to the end, to go where no ones been? Its not all Alex Grey paintings and insightful Tool Lyrics. There is just as much severe ugliness and horror out there as warmth and beauty.

There is an equation that we are a part of, that is constantly striving to balance itself out, but it is not a mathematical one. And yes, there is hope for those of us who seek answers and awareness, but its the same hope as that of those who dont. Being aware just makes the journey that much more wonderfull and interesting. You will find the answers you are looking for in time, just as everyone else will, regardless of will. It just takes a journey on a path that is not necessarily ordained by you or I. We RIDE the spiral to the end, we dont drive it. We are one with something far greater than our selves, and that something has a goal to know itself and find harmony with its existence. Its on a course and we are simply along for the ride. Dig deeper, pry the curtains back, and seek your answers for yourself. Take what you learn and pass it on to those who may be seeking it for themselves as it was done for you, so that they may decide for themselves how to move within the current as the fabric of existence continues forward on its path. Thats really the only method there is. Its individual. Its what is best for the singular observer. There is no ONE METHOD. IT wont work because the is no IT. Awareness comes to each of us on our own accord, of our own will and desire. You cant force it, and you cant direct its process for anyone else. You can only share knowledge as it comes to you and inspire others to seek out the truth for themselves.
 

Colin I have already sacrificed more than you can imagine for this end. I embrace the prospect of more to come until the end comes for me, and when the end comes I will embrace that also.

Yes, I do not have all the answers. That is the point of the exercise. No one person does, but as a collective we may find what we are looking for. The Method is a small snowball on a mountaintop, the foresight to initiate the snowballs movement, and the courage to tumble down with it while knowing that you will die before it reaches its full size and velocity.

Galileo Galilei comes to mind.

"Inspire others to seek out the truth for themselves", your words Colin.

I am who I am today because of the influences of others on me yesterday and further back. We all are the amalgamation of influences. For better or for worse we are a species that has made astonishing advancements due entirely to the Methods devised by others. If it were not for those people with the courage to inspire and influence, we would still be living in caves praying to the sun in fear, sacrificing our children for no one.

For better or for worse, I choose to influence for better.
 

"For better or for worse, I choose to influence for better."

You are already doing that, so why try to invent another method? You have had a great method all along, no need to change it or create a new one. Some people will not be receptive to your method of conveying your message for whatever reason. Perhaps they dont like heavy music, or forum discussions. So then, another method would work better for those people. Really, my point is just that there is no ONE Method with a capital M that you were striving to create when this discussion began. All we can do is dig for knowledge ourselves, share it with those who might want to take a look, and inspire others who might be on the same journey. There is more than one path to the ultimate answer of all of this existence, and there are others like you who are doing just as you are right now, just doing so on a different path.

I understand that you have sacrificed a great deal to be where you are. It is a consequence of our journey for discovery. Yet, it still does not satisfy my question to you. How much are you ultimately still willing to give up for this noble quest? Sanity? Sanctuary? All earthly needs and delights? You have sacrificed much indeed, but its not over yet if you wish to continue on your present course. What if you find that the path you are on becomes vacant, and you are left alone to continue the journey in near eternal solitude? Surely you will keep going, but what if what you find along the way makes no sense? What if you cannot fully achieve your goal in your present state of being, or to progress further, you must leave this world behind? When do you decide to let go of all of this world? All of your family, friends, career. When do you decide the time is right to move on, and how do you know it is the correct path to be on? Further, when do you start to question your influence on others who may be taking the same steps as you, to step into the unknown? What is the ultimate answer worth to you?

Yes, as a collective we WILL find the answers. In fact, its inevitable. The answers will be known to us all eventually in due time. Since we are all a part of the same thing, why then would we not eventually learn the truth when its time comes to reveal itself? But the journey along the way needn't be such a personal struggle to free the minds of those still left in the dark. Their day of enlightenment will come. In the meantime, they are still playing their role in all of this regardless of their understanding of it, just as we are with our limited knowledge of things. We struggle enough to comprehend these things for ourselves, why add to that struggle and miss out on all of the splendor and wonder that is also available to us along the way. If someone asks for help or guidance from you, by all means, help them. But dont be so quick to try to shepperd the rest along, when we are still just one of the flock. If you know someone is in jeopardy or risking harm, step in, otherwise, stick to your own path and let them carry on on theirs. Its all a part of the process of the Collective( not to be confused with a human collective consciousness) coming to terms with its existence. There MUST be other paths and methods in order for all the possibilites to be reckognized.
Its frustrating to us when we see things that are seemingly senseless going on in this world, and indeed when we have the power to right a wrong we should do so, but that does not mean that these things are without purpose. Calamities have a purpose too, and are not the end all to end all. Just as you and I are trying to learn about the higher order to all things, so to is that higher order trying to learn of itself, and its methods may seem strange or senseless to us, but they have their place in all of this. Things that exist, good or bad, do so out of a need to, regardless of whether we see that need or not. Good, evil, positive, negative, are just different sides to the same coin. We label these things as they affect us, but it does not negate their need to be in existence. I have wrestled with this notion for most of my life. Why do things like genocide or child abuse exist? Why does suffering and pain exist? Are they truly necessary in this universe?
Well, in a sense, yes. That is not to say that I condone any of these things. In fact, I actively try to stop them when I can with what power I have, because a need to stop them and balance them out with what is right and good also exists. Yet, its all just the same energy, changing forms, transfering and transforming until it has reckoned with itself and finds balance and harmony. You and I and the rest of existence are all engaged in the same active learning process, ultimately looking for the same knowledge, but from our own respective individual angles of approach. To try to channel it all into one approach, one method, from one angle defeats the purpose, as inevitably, we will then miss something along the way, an answer that is not found on just that one path, and the picture will be incomplete.

Please understand that I am not trying to be argumentative with you on this. I know some thoughts and inflections do not translate well in print. I am not trying to be a naysayer or party pooper, but I feel that your ultimate goal to find a "One Method" is deeply flawed and ultimately self defeating.
Not that helping to open up peoples eyes is wrong or a waste of time, but the approach you seem to be advocating, that we find a certain singular method to do so on a wider scale is perhaps counter intuitive to a plan that is already far more encompassing than you might realize at the moment. A plan of which you, myself, and the rest of us all are but single tiny components of, put in place by a higher order of thought to do just what we have been doing all along, which is observe, and collect data, so that together as a collective whole, when it comes time, we can report our piece of the puzzle and start to put them all together. By the way, that collective whole is more than a human consciousness collective. It includes all things within existence. They all have their place in this. There are alien life forms on the other side of the universe doing their part, just as we are doing ours.
Take for instance the fibbionacci sequence at the root of the Tool song and video. We describe this through the language of mathematics it was written in. Yet it was not invented by man. It has always been in place. That is to say, there has always been an order at work here, of which we are just a small part of. Let it do its thing while you do yours. Because by you doing your thing, and me doing mine, and she doing hers, we are are doing our parts that were chosen for us to perform. We are participating in the grand order, whether or not we understand how it all relates to one another. Ultimately, there is a One Method of sorts, but it is not for us to decide upon. Its already been in place, and it involves the individual observer making the journey to the common destination we are all headed for, via our own unique paths.

A discussion about averting a catastrophy and making a better world for us here on the terrestrial homefront might be better left out of the realm of theoretical physics and spiritual metaphysics for the moment, and rather directed to the more immediate practicalities of our current world situation, such as how to reduce pollution, end ethnic strife, and social issues like class warfare and substance dependancy and abuses of power by those in authority. These are some of the many roadblocks that people face on their path to attain enlightenment and evolve into beings of a higher order of understanding. We must face these issues and bring balance to them, before we can move on as a COLLECTIVE species. As individuals, we can evolve to higher planes of consciousness and understanding seperately from the rest, but if you really wish to bring others on board en mass, we need to solve a few issues of physicality first. We need to work on a better worldview before we can collectively tackle the bigger picture.
 

I Think that, due to a single Method not being a Feasible way for all or even most of humanity to communicate, that the phrase 'Method' could be replaced by 'system of free choice'

This may cause some arguments :)

Some of you might say that this would lead to nothing but Anarchy, and i would ask you to remove the 'nothing but' from your statement. In my view, and thats all it is, chaos is the natural way of things, and anyone that tries to govern or impose order on this non-systematic system is only going to negate natures efforts to...language fails me here...because no-one can honestly say what natures grand plan is, as there doesn't seem to be consciousness in it. like i say, Chaos. Cause and Effect.

Elaboration;

Leaders of people do not make decisions. they are placed in spotlight as a face for us to apply blame or respect to. something happens a world away (cause) and another group of people is forced to react (effect). before technology such as we have today was in place, these events were more localised, but the evolution of technology that we have come to embrace (rather then physical evolution) has brought everyones issues to everyones attention.

This is a beautiful thing.

but

There are now people who Govern this System so we only know what they want us to, unless we REALLY try to find more.

however

to know all these things has no tangible effect on one persons life.

I think an Equation could be applied to life, but it would have to originate in the start of the universe and end after the end.

Thanks for reading this rant, in closing i would like to paraphrase Tom Robbins (Well worth Reading if this post has made you Feel anything)

"why do we need a system that enforces rules of driving legally? they should replace 'legally' with 'lovingly'

if everyone drove lovingly, there would be no need for the governing body'

thats not an exact quote, its 7 in the mornin n i've not had breakfast yet :)

I don't know about the equation itself, but i feel that the sum of its parts may end up reading

'Do what Thou Wilt'

but with

'As long as it harms no Other'

Tacked on at the end

Much Love and Respect to anyone who got this far

General Elwin
 

Let me put it this way.

Here we are all floating along on a cosmic ocean current on a boat called life, moving with the stream of the current, with the wind at our backs. Along the way, we find little pieces of knowledge that we can stitch together to to form a sail of sorts, to catch the winds and help steer us and propel us along for a smoother, easier, more enjoyable ride. Also along the way, we sometimes encounter storms, obsticals, sea creatures of all sorts, and other travelers, some of whom are on the same current as we, others who's currents crisscross our own. All of these things may either impede upon or embellish our journey, as we also have the same effects on them. Either way, we influence the other to one degree or another.
We also are unsure exactly where this current of ours is taking us too. We look around for landmarks and signs to give us clues and to orient us as we move along. We look to our fellow travelers for answers, and share bits of our knowledge with one another. Some of our fellow travelers talk of a storm up ahead, and a warning call goes out to all those who can hear it, passed down the line to those behind us. We look for a way to steer clear of the storm, and to get others to do so as well. But its a big storm. We have been through storms before sure enough. We just hunkered down, and went with the flow until it blew over. Sometimes these storms would damage our life boat, and we would have to work to make the repairs, to fix a leak, or drain excess water from the decks below. But this new storm is a doosy, bigger than any we have encountered before.
So, we plan, we prepare, and we gather our wits and tools and supplies to be at the ready for when we need them. We understand that the outcome of this storm is unknown, but to confront it is inevitable. The current we are on is leading straight for it.
There are other currents on this cosmic ocean, but they are way over there, and we cant jump ship, can we?. All of what we know is in this boat. Our whole lives and livelyhoods, our connections to our family, friends, and our dreams. We could try to steer our vessel over to another current, but we still do not know where it leads or what we may find once there, and we'd need to find a place where another one intersects with ours. And this storm, this storm is so big that it may cover all of the currents within our reach.
Now the waters are getting choppy, really rough. The winds have increased dramatically, and we are still quite a way aways from the epicenter of this monster. We know we are in for something we have never had to deal with before. Our thoughts turn towards others at this time, those who we know are not as well equipped to handle such things. We feel fear for them. Do we bring them aboard our vessel, which has a better chance of comming out the other end intact? They are way back there after all. And do we even have room for all of them aboard? What can we throw overboard to lighten the load and free up space for more souls? And how do we convince them to leave most of what they have always known behind?
Or do we just drop supplies in the water so that they may float back to them in hopes that they can use them wisely?

Well?

You can impart your knowledge to others just as you have been doing all along, dropping bits of sailcloth along the way so that others may take up the power of the winds of change to better navigate through the storm ahead. You do this now through your music, and quite well I might add. At the moment, its the best we can do. You still have your own vessel to steer, and that storm ahead, thats the calamity you and I whisper of on the winds. In many ways it was stirred up by those who came before us, and in some ways we helped to bring it about as well. And some of it is just the inevitable manifestations of change and nature itself. Either way, we are in for a very bumpy ride at some point, that much is certain. There are some storms, some calamaties, that can not be avoided, circumnavigated, or traversed through without a loss of some sort.

So then, is there hope?

Sure there is hope. There is plenty of hope. The unknown is just that, unknown. As long as complete doom and gloom is not certain, then there is always hope. Furthermore, storms are a necessary part of the natural cycle of things, and that in the wake of a storm, even one as large as this one, there is rebirth and renewal. Things will change for sure, but is that always for the worst? Well that depends on your angle of observation really. Did some perish in the event? Yes. Did their energy fade away completely? No. You maybe survived intact, and they simply moved on to a new stage of existence. And the COLLECTIVE, of which we are all a part of, learned some thing of itself.

You want to craft a single method by which we can bridge the gap between awareness and unawareness in the hopes that we can evolve further together, and stave off an impending calamity as a collective unit, through collective will and action.
But what if that calamity is not within our collective ability to avert or manuver against completely? What then? Further still, what if that calamity is the impetus for the very change that will achieve your ultimate goal for you? What if meeting the challenge of that calamity head on is what is necessary for us to evolve further? What if it is a test of our will and resolve, not to stop it from happening or avoid it, but rather, to weather it and see it through? And if it is of our own creation, then is it not the price to pay for it to suffer its consequences? Remember, energy cannot be destroyed. We will not cease to exist, but things may change drastically.

The assumption that we need to create a singular Method to evolve the species in terms of awareness is flawed, in that the awareness you are seeking for everyone is coming right at us anyway, or rather, we are all constantly moving progressively towards it, albeit at our own different speeds.

The speed of will.

So then, this Method becomes one for the willing to expedite the process along you might say. Fine. But why just one method? The Method? Again, what works for some will not work for others. By constraining it all into too tight or narrow a parameter, you are boxing out those who are willing but unable to fit well within the confines of said Method, while boxing yourself in from other possible alternatives and ideas.

So then, why waste time and energy trying to reinvent the wheel? We already have a plethora of methods by which to share knowledge on down the line, and they have all worked great thus far.
Awhile back we talked about how to make mathematics "sexy", so that more of the masses would catch on to the language of the universe in terms they can understand. Its been a problem facing the mystics for many millenia. But you do that now. And TOOL has all but mastered it. This song, video, and subsequent blog discussion are shining examples of that. But now that we have possibly bridged that gap, how do we turn the information into everyday practical, useful information to change our earthbound lives for the better? Further, what of those who dont like Jaw or Tool, as hard as that might be to comprehend, at least for me anyway. They dont get "it". They are still in the dark. So we find another way to reach them. We dont need to reach the ones we already reached, and if we leave that door open, others will flow through in time on their own accord. But it takes work to keep that door open, and that takes away from our ability to find another method. So do we abandon a method that already works for many in search of one that works for even more people? To go in search of The Method? Or do we trust that out there, we have counterparts actively working on the same goal from a different angle of approach, to reach the ones we are not getting through to?

I choose to trust that there are other ships out at sea that also act as beacons for the lost and willing. In fact, I know there are. And so, I carry on, comforted in the knowledge that I am not alone.

Your Method is art. You have been doing it all along.
 

"Perhaps it is our fear, that in the silence between stories, in the moment of falling, the fear that we will never find the one story which will save us, and so we lunge for another, and we feel safe again, if only for as long as we are telling it."

- Nick Flynn
 

In closing:

We all travel on a destination from point A to point B. Say we were to drive from California to New York. If you were to ask friends How to do this, you would hear a lot of different "Methods" or ways to accomplish this trip. You will hear all kinds of suggestions. Yes there will be a general consensus. But the end "method" will be yours and yours alone. I know for myself (I have made this trip several times) it would be considered by many to be a "method" of madness (there's method to or in somebody's madness there is a good reason for somebody's apparently foolish, strange, or illogical action). You see I wont throw out the window my empty coffee cup, or any trash for that matter. I'll stop to help a stranded motorist. I'll take a side trip to smell the roses. Then I'll go fast as hell to make up time. I'll be influenced by road rage, road construction, and insane drivers. I will get tired, pissed off, confused, frustrated. I will laugh, smile, feel comfortable, and enjoy.
So my point would be this: Yes there can be a Basic method. But essentially it boils down to the individual. How far are you willing go. What are your comfort zones and are you willing to give them up, can you give them up. How important is the journey. The only "method" I can see is individual. I can listen to all the stories and understand all the tales. Yet the only "method" for me will be the "method" I choose. If that is a "method" of madness so be it. That is who I am.
 

I must state that one thing that prevents us from reaching happiness is that we question life far to much, there is to many why's and what if's..... just a thought xxx
 

Word

 

This topic branches, yes, and I'm unclear at what point in this conversation I could interject and add something relevant, especially this late in the game.

So, simply, I'll throw some of Maynard's own words back into the fray: "I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing."

You that discuss "Fate" ... let me weigh in by saying that Fate is emergent, inevitable only in retrospect.

Lastly, and I must admit that this following small bit of verse was inspired collectively by a number of writings both here and elsewhere. As it might have bearing, please allow me to submit:

"Each grain in the hourglass, swirling ‘mongst its brethren
Wonders at the meaning of a seeming-pointless dance
Fails to cast perceptions beyond the event horizon
Grounds faith upon fables of other’s penitence

When the last in line has fallen and silence rules the day
Echoes faint, a thousand whispers shrug and fade away
Beneath a narrow portal gathered motionless await
For someone to turn it over and begin it all again"

Kind regards,
Chip QNP

Posted by Quicksilver Night Productions on Thursday, January 24, 2008 at 10:51
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