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emily rose



Last Updated: 11/23/2009

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Status: Single
City: Detroit
State: Michigan
Country: US
Signup Date: 11/29/2005

Who Gives Kudos:


Wednesday, August 26, 2009 

I saw him there in my driveway. He had a face with many lines and whiskers; a troublesome past, and most likely an ephemeral future.  I was coming home from a night of sexless cuddle-ry, after an unpaid gig in downtown poverty. Still in high spirits, somehow, I navigated my un-showered, still-in-yesterdays-clothing, self to the curb of my bohemian bungalow, and noticed him “grace” my property. Grasping a bottle of something fierce, he littered the air around him, like a Nazi beehive, with abrupt utterances, and sleepy hopelessness. I knew not how to react, so I did what any girl who used to spy on her big brother would do: I parked my car and followed him down the street. Ducking and hiding behind shrubs as he waddled, doubtful he would have noticed me if I were dressed up in a Big Bird costume, nonetheless I maintained an elusive demeanor. He must’ve been around 60 years old, but by the smell of him, he’d been dead for years.

He zombie-like approached the church just two doors from my house. Something intrinsic compelled me to proceed, so I followed him in like a pup. The large blond woman at the door smiled like a marshmallow at me and asked if I was there to join them for dinner and service. I then realized I had stumbled into one of those catch 22 sustenance offerings in return for dogmatic-lecture- listening. “Why, yes I have”.  I used a fake accent, not that it would matter, because I do live only two houses down from this church, and it’s not like they wouldn’t recognize me as their neighbor because of a discrepancy in my speaking voice. 

I charted down the grey-carpeted stairs to the basement, feeling that I did not belong, (not only because of my Jewish upbringing) to a reasonably sized room, with white walls, white tables, white pastors, and white women wearing ivory sweaters greeting the homeless with forced philanthropy.

I sat in a folding chair next to my new friend/intruder, although I couldn’t get too close for reasons stated earlier. He turned to me and coughed real loud, as if I had just bombed his aura with pepper spray, got close to my face, and bellowed “You’re reeeeal pretty”. I sipped on my plastic cup of apple juice with enthusiasm. “Thank you, sir”. Shit! I forgot to use the fake accent. Oh well.

Everyone stared at me, besides those who just looked down at the table. Maybe 25 people had congregated, all hungry, and expressionless. They either knew I wasn’t actually homeless or thought I was a prostitute. I wasn’t sure which angle to play up. So I stayed pretty quiet (which is a difficult thing for me to do).

The frail woman in front of me with strange haircut, adorned in white running suit and neon green tee shirt, introduced herself as Annette. “God don’t want me to think bad thoughts no more”, She said. That pretty much summed it up. Honestly, it may have been the wisest remark I heard that evening.

The pastor who resembled a large Buick spoke for a half hour exactly (not that I was watching the clock…) about how Jesus specifically called him to help others, and while he could be sitting on his back porch right now (Gee, that’s sweet of you to rub it into the homeless that you have a nice big back porch), he’d rather be in this basement helping the needy. He did have a convincing kindness tucked behind his eyelids, though, and I knew deep inside there was soul who craved to improve mankind.

I closed my eyes and attempted to listen with an open mind, despite my aversion to organized religion, and my refusal to become a sheep.

Each time he said the word “God” I replaced it with the word “Love”.

Each time he said the word “Jesus” I replaced it with the word “You”.

And each time he said the word “Satan” or “Devil”, I replaced it with the word “Fear”.

After my alterations, that sermon wasn’t too shabby. I felt pretty all right about it.

“Are you going to eat with us? “ Said a white haired woman with despondently blue eyes. I felt too guilty to consider consuming their food. Like a housecat coming down to the alley to feed on the scraps. Granted all I had at home waiting for me was a box of cheerios, and if I had left them out on the counter from yesterday morning, which I think I did, they’d probably be quite chewy by that point. Before I knew it a bald man was stacking baked beans and bread, hot dogs, and weird noodles on a paper plate, placing it in front of me like a dog treat. I stomached as much as I could, while trying to push the hotdogs on the other folks like they were laced with crack cocaine.

It didn’t take long for me to start my own preaching- about self-love and the fact that we really have no fucking clue why we are here on earth, to act as if you do is complete blasphemy. The evil glares from the evangelist administrators made me want to continue with my monologue, but I ended up in a side conversation with one of the gentlemen there about quantum physics. He had studied it for years. The homeless man to his right had worked for Ford his whole life, but now is on the streets. These people all had such potential, they had dreams, but the society we live in has made it next to impossible for that potential to be cultivated, and now they sleep in public restrooms, under Mt. Clemens’ lovely bridges, if they are lucky enough in shelters, enduring ½ hour of brainwashing every Saturday evening while their insides rumble.

What dejection.

I left with the onset of a pretty severe tummy ache, felt almost drunk with sorrow, as I tumbled up the stairs. I kindly rejected the 7:00 service and found my way home while a thousand thoughts intravenously obtruded my head.  Why is it that money and religion always go hand in hand?

Could it be they are both completely man-made and used to control people!?!

I thought, if man creates something, that means he has the power to destroy it.

That’s at least a start.

My heart pumped out of spite for my species’ corruptions, yet a flint of hope stood like a baby tree in an uncharted rainforest of untruths.

Religion and science battle one another because science attempts to uncover misconceptions, to make sense of the complexities and mysteries of this universe, it is future-based; Religion strives to keep people simple, and focused on the past-excited about the apocalypse. Come all ye Sheep-ple! Celebrate the demise! Disregard your biology and innate survival skills!

How I long to free myself from the future and the past, and live wholly in the moment. After all, it is my past negative attitudes towards religion that led me to disdain it so much.

Please Note: religion and spirituality are two entirely different things in my book.

Everyone deserves to eat; young, old, squirrels, ducks, witches in ditches, death row prisoners clutching their bibles, muttering “Thou shall not kill”.

But really, aren’t they just teaching hungry people how to starve?

At home that evening I got sick. I expelled their crackpot ideas along with the food I had criminally eaten, although I had enjoyed the experience.

If my driveway-hideout-man returns next Saturday I might just share a bowl of cheerios with him. I might just suck it up and realize that we are all dancing to the beat of an unlawful drum, at any given moment each of our entire life savings (the little green rectangles that you’ve never seen but spend your entire life working for and cluttering your mind with thoughts of) could disappear, and we could all be eating baked bean propaganda together on a Saturday evening. Void of running water and big down comforters. Roofless and toothless, dehydrated from a worlds cruelty.

I think it’s time we stop thinking and talking about money as if it owns us. As if it has power over us.

I think it’s time we throw a grenade at this bullshit institution and work on rebuilding something not based on fear.

Our past will always be cluttered with mistakes, but there is no right or wrong, only information to lead you towards a better future.

Fuck this apathetic Chinese finger trap mentality. Lets all meet on a Saturday evening over dinner, not to worship a ventriloquist in the sky, but to brainstorm up ideas on how to start making a positive change. How can we pull together, not as a specific race or a class, but as a species, to sustain life on this planet? How can we lesson the God and Money and heighten the Love and Share.

Lets acknowledge our wrongdoings, and move beyond the fear that traps us in the past.



Ridiculous Being

 
I love your words and ideas and am sitting here speechless.

 
Posted by Ridiculous Being on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 18:42
[Reply to this
jenny rotten

 
THANK YOU. Here here. This was part of my education when I switched schools and came to Mt. Clemens. As well as the education that was offered by my school of choice, I chose to extend my studies to the streets and found the same conclusions that you have found and expressed so elegantly here : ) I too have a collection of stories from people not so different from you and me. We do need to do something about it- ignorance is not an excuse. And to loosely quote our beloved Oprah ; ) "As soon as we are confronted by an injustice we have the DUTY to do something about it."

Saturday dinner meetings- Let's brainstorm!
xoxo

 
Posted by jenny rotten on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 19:23
[Reply to this
catlistening

 
I had a similar experience last Spring. I was homeless and received a kind offer for board from a reverend of some denomination. I couldn't bring myself to accept it because I knew it would entail, if not complete inculcation of values, then at least the pretense of being interested in adopting those values. I couldn't do it. I am cult proof. Fortunately, fate tossed me into the home of a secular humanist and a wiccan.
 
Posted by catlistening on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 19:58
[Reply to this
Silver Dragon Productions

 
So you're upset because homeless people that would otherwise be going hungry were offered food in exchange for listening to a religious sermon? If the man returns you "might" offer him a bowl of cereal, but you probably will not, and you certainly didn't on that night. I don't get it. Not everybody get's everything they want for free, some people pay money, some people pay by giving up some of their time. You took these people's food and thanked them by blasting them on your blog, that's cute.
 
Posted by Silver Dragon Productions on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 20:03
[Reply to this
Maria - Last Performance at South Lyon Hotel FRI

 
you totally took what Emily Said Wrong!!!!!!  She would never say something against Homeless people or anyone, especially when she gives of herself to anyone who is in need even if it's her last.  She donates thousands of hours of her time to charitable organizations and she is always on a mission to do things to save the earth.  This is a daily regiment of hers, it his her lifestyle!
 
Posted by Maria - Last Performance at South Lyon Hotel FRI on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 19:29
[Reply to this
Mitch Matthews

 
This says a lot about a lot of things.


MM


 
Posted by Mitch Matthews on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 22:59
[Reply to this
Sue
Sue Shields

 
Wow...we really are kindred spirits.  You said before it's like we're the same person.  It's not just our eclectic likings.  It's much more than that.  It's more like dual souls that have cracked opened the crystal and not only seek the truth but actually feel lifes's truths  and have found ways to express it. How are you so capable at such a young age!?
Hope to see you soon-soulmate

 
Posted by Sue on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 3:10
[Reply to this
gyro

 
Very good.Once I started reading I couldn..t stop.Of course Religion and Spirituality are two different things.When you have one foot in yesterday and one foot in tomorrow you piss all over today.

 
Posted by gyro on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 8:42
[Reply to this
Stan
Stanley Nunn

 
I get it...I like it....I want more....:)
I would offer this though.  I do share your perspective on this. Perhaps the solution is not the dissolution of the establishment, but to show them a light by which they can steer their bulky, bloated ship?  By that I mean to create a place of love, sharing and sacrifice for others.  To show them the way it should be done.  Food for the hungry.  save the sermons for the spiritually starving.  There are as many of the fomer as the latter. 

We cannot change the minds of the profiteers.  Their god is profit.  And he is powerful. (in their eyes)


Love and Light, Blessed Be, Namaste


Nashan

 
Posted by Stan on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 22:31
[Reply to this
homewardbound
Butter Fly

 
do you want to hang out?
i never realized we had so much in common.

 
Posted by homewardbound on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 2:05
[Reply to this
Jessica

 
I love you.
But I am internally conflicted.
While I agree with many things you say, I believe there is still some discovery to be had about God that you may not yet realize.

 
Posted by Jessica on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 22:21
[Reply to this
emily rose

 
That is exactly my point- there is a lot of discovery to be had yet about 'God', for everyone. 
 
Posted by emily rose on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 10:45
[Reply to this
Silver Dragon Productions

 
Emily, it seems to me that you are somehow offended by Christianity, and that you look down on people that have faith in a God that you don't believe in. In your blog there were two major themes, one being that hungry people were being fed, and the other being that you find Christianity repulsive. To a thinking person, the most important part of the story is that hungry homeless people were fed by someone, whether you share a philosophical opinion with these people isn't the issue.
 
What you did was took what should have been a positive experience and turned it negative. Can we agree that the most pressing issue for these homeless people was eating, and that it really wasn't about you and your beliefs? If so, you have to ask, who met the needs of these poor people more, the religious people that fed them or you for blogging about how terrible it was? Don't assume by my reaction to this says anything about what I personally believe, because that isn't the issue and you may guess wrong. Nonetheless if you position yourself to hate 74% of the US population, and continue to believe they are all morons, and that only the .1% of the people in this country practicing the Pagan thing are of any use to society, it's going to make you feel further isolated and alone. Why can't you just believe what you want to believe, and respect everyone else's right to believe differently?

I'm not trying to attack you or your beliefs, I'm just trying to shine a light on a truth. The truth is that the world will never be what you want it to be. You should strive to find a way to live in it anyway, and make a difference where you can, and accept that others have rights to be on their own journey. Try to find some happiness in knowing that hungry people got fed, and statistically speaking, 74% of them weren't put off by the sermon, and those that were put off were not put off enough to prevent them from coming their to eat. Maybe Pagans can open a shelter to feed the hungry as well, the more people helping out the better.
 
 
Posted by Silver Dragon Productions on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 17:33
[Reply to this
Andrew Workman
Andrew workman

 
Silver Dragon Productions,

"To a thinking person," it seems clear that the link being made here was that these basic tenets of life should be available to people without the "bonus" of a very specific brand of western Christian theology being thrown at them.  These people are in a weakened, hopeless state, and it is a cheap tactic for any religion to essentially "bait" them in.  I am not in any way denying that they are doing what is essentially still a good thing, just that it could be done without the religious message.  As Mr. Nunn so eloquently put it, "save the sermons for the spiritually starving."  Whether you share a philosophical opinion with these people is completely relevant in the big picture, because it is going to disproportionately affect people's beliefs.  You seem like either a genuine believer, or one who respects genuine belief, so I know you can probably agree that someone who turns their life over to Jesus solely for a sandwich has not made a genuine and healthy spritual conversion.  More like, shut up and give me my sandwich.

As far as who met the needs of the homeless more, this is a red herring.  Of course an established religious institution with some level of money and power and an agenda is going to be able to care for homeless people more effectively than a 19 year old girl.  C'mon, the point of her blog (and in the end, it is just that, her personal opinion space) was that everyone does have the right to believe what they want and should respect others beliefs, but that it is essentially taking away someone's right to freely choose what to believe, when only one belief system is putting food in their belly.  We all ideally have freedom of belief, but do you think a homeless person who gets meals from the local Lutheran church is going to be open to or even care about the mosque or buddhist center down the street?  The Christian philanthropy comes with a high price tag for society, because a matter that should be purely intellectually and spritually decided is being decided by who gives out the most food.  Granted, I am speaking about a limited segment of the population (the homeless), but not an insignificant segment.  Any Christian who is intellectually and, in this case, theologically honest with themselves should be able to at least see the validity of what Emily is saying.

"Maybe Pagans can open a shelter to feed the hungry as well, the more people helping out the better."

Maybe it is just me, but this remark has a certain level of smugness to it.  As in, "Ha-ha, your petty Pagan religion doesn't even have enough money or power to make themselves known in the community!"  We both know (I'm assuming a certain level of knowledge here on your part based on your writing) that Pagans as a whole are a minority, and not unified.  They CERTAINLY do not have the resources of Christians.  I can't tell if that was a genuine statement on your part, but it hit me like a bag full of bricks and sarcasm.
 
Posted by Andrew Workman on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 18:30
[Reply to this
Silver Dragon Productions

 
Andrew,

Thanks for your reply, you made some good points as did Emily. One thing that you're wrong about, there was no sarcasm intended when I said Pagans could feed the hungry. If you read my comments carefully you'll see that my point is people should respect other people's beliefs, and I would never try to make that argument while ridiculing someone else's beliefs. I respect what you believe whether I agree with you or not, and it appears from your post that you do the same. Anybody can help, whether they're part of a big church, a little church, or on their own with $5.00 in their pocket. 
 
For what it's worth, with the exception of weddings and funerals I haven't stepped foot in a church since I was 12 or 13. I do know that the way churches make money is from contributions of their members, and that people contribute this money knowing that it's used to promote various charities, one of which is feeding the hungry. There are secular community organizers that round up homeless people by the busloads and give them cigarettes in exchange for them going to the polls and voting for the candidates the organization supports, ACORN has done this the past 2 presidential elections, does this bother you?

I've known Emily for a few years, and I respect her both as a musician and a person, and I hope that she knows that. I'm sure she appreciates your belief that she is 19, but I think you're off by a few years. I wasn't out to attack Emily. Take care Andrew.
 
Posted by Silver Dragon Productions on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:13
[Reply to this
Andrew Workman
Andrew workman

 
Ya know, I've asked her age before too, and I am not sure why I typed that.  19 year old girl probably just seemed to drive my point home better than 20-some young woman, hehe.  As far as ACORN trading cigarettes for transient people's votes, I can't say I agree with it, but I also can't see the relevance.  If you are making the point that there are organizations out there that are doing the homeless wrong moreso than the church, then I agree.  However, ACORN's alleged voter fraud is not the issue here.  Your post seemed initially to be attacking Emily, and perhaps I misinterpreted some of your writing.  I genuinely enjoyed reading what she wrote here, and so I felt inclined to defend her, perhaps based on mistaken assumptions.  In any event, this sort of thing is healthy to talk about.
 
Posted by Andrew Workman on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:04
[Reply to this
Silver Dragon Productions

 
Hi Andrew,
 
Thanks for the new reply. I didn't mean to come off as attacking Em. I'm happy that she has friends like you that step up when they think she's being attacked. As for the ACORN thing, you're right as to my reason for bringing it up, I wasn't trying to step out of one frying pan and into another. I definitely agree that debate is healthy, and if people can accept and respect people with different beliefs it makes life a lot easier and the world a better place. Take care Andrew, and thanks again.

-Mike  
 
Posted by Silver Dragon Productions on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:30
[Reply to this
emily rose

 

Mike,

Please don’t take anything I say personally. My opinions are a projection of my own experiences, thoughts, and feelings. They have nothing to do with you.

Your opinions, also, have nothing to do with my dream of the universe. Everyone has a different definition of truth and I don’t need to shine my light on your truth or vice versa. It would be silly for me to offer countless examples of why dogmatic/organized religions are concerned with the love of power, rather than the power of love. 

I will restate, however, that my blog is not about how I hope the hungry go unfed (come on, how cruel do you think I am :P). It is about my disapproval of churches using food as a collateral, as a fish bait if you will, to perpetuate their fear-based, woman oppressing, and easily disproven tenets.

I don’t typically like to get caught up in semantics, but for future notice, in case you frequently do the religious debate thing- Paganism is not a religion. It is a term used for people who choose to not follow one of the mainly practiced religions.  People are often confused about what Paganism is because they don’t know much about it (after all, Christians got to 74% of the U.S. population first).

I find that people often fear what they don’t know.

Aside from all this controversy, I hope we can celebrate our differences, and agree to disagree.  It is good to hear from you and I hope all is well, I say this out of sincerity, not sarcasm.

 

Take care, Mike.

emily


 
Posted by emily rose on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 16:50
[Reply to this
Silver Dragon Productions

 
Emily,

I'm going to bow out of this debate, first I want to clear up a few things. As for the bit on "shining light on truths", when I said that it was limited to one specific thing I said, not my whole post. The specific thing was that the world will never in your lifetime be what you want it to be, without war, without suffering, without religion and without money. Beyond that statement (which I think anyone reading would agree with as being an absolute truth), everything else I said was just my opinion.

You had one friend other than me who hinted at not agreeing with you, and there are likely to be other people that read your blog and took issue with one thing or another and remained silent on the subject. I'm sure that you'd agree a lot your blogs tend to be controversial, and I would hope that you're not opposed to or offended by people weighing in with a different point of view. I think there's more to being a friend than only speaking up when you agree.

Lastly, nowhere in my post did I say anything that should have led you to the conclusion that I feared Pagans or Wiccans, I do not. I guess if I were to try to explain why I even got involved in this conversation I would offer the following explanation. I know for a fact that you have friends who are Christians, and I'm pretty sure that at some point a Christian or 2 have paid to see your shows and bought your CDs. Is it right to alienate these people by attacking their beliefs? You yourself used the phrase "power of love". It just seems to me that there's not much love in your blog, to me it seemed a little hateful.

I wish you the best too Emily.

-Mike

 

 
Posted by Silver Dragon Productions on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:13
[Reply to this
mike anton

 
Well, looky here - a "Throwdown on the Blogosphere"!  Well, I think there will always be the yes-men (and women, depending on who's being seduced, I guess) on this blog, no matter what.  But it's surprising to see some flack brewing, indeed.  I think Emily is trying to rally the troops, and only has the best intentions.  However, here's a chink in the armor: 

"They either knew I wasn’t actually homeless or thought I was a prostitute. I wasn’t sure which angle to play up. So I stayed pretty quiet (which is a difficult thing for me to do)."

The real question now, is this:  What angle shall you play now, Miss Emily Rose?  It's too bad about Western civilization, especially America, where we have all the tools to fix ourselves, yet we can't feed our people.  We can't give ourselves adequate health care.  We have a moronic health care system which is a for profit system, unlike all other 1st world countries.  Yet, our churches go tax-free.  One can always find the truth by following the money, no matter how ugly it gets.  Badly written mixed-metaphors aside (How does a man look like a Buick, pray tell?), I like your story.  People are hurting.  They are dying, for no reason.  And nobody really cares.  That's the truth.  Our system is eating it's own tail, and I'm with you on separating ourselves from all this mumbo jumbo money crap-way-to-live.  But this whole "Ownership of Property" thing we have is a mighty obstacle.  This debate has been raging since before the days of Karl Marx (who spoke volumes on Economics, which most people are completely unaware of), and it will not be decided here.  "Politicians use God as a campaigning tool" - That's something I wrote.  Your followers may not find those words so majestically beautiful, but Truth is often not Pretty, eh? 

When I was busking in Chicago for a living, I regularly sung my ass off for six hours straight, in 20 degree weather, for 40 buckaroos.  Girl singers always got more; tits and ass sells.  But the biggest money-maker was totally pathetic-looking bums, they got hundreds, for doing nothing.  I'd watch them collect bank and then go buy crack.  What to do with that?  What's fair? 

Life is hard.  People are motivated by fear, or trends, or perceptions, and often they are not true.

I don't give bums money; seen too many bums take big wads of money and waste it.  However, I collect for St. Alouyscious Charity at Xmas time, I do free shows, and I give to Purple Heart.  But more importantly, I live within my means.  It's actions that speak louder than words, so the cliche' goes.  I act like a Human; not a Consumer.

There's more stories; many are quite eloquent, and many more are not my own.  With this Woodstock remembrance, it's been in my mind about that culture that really wanted to change the world, so villified since.  But there are communes still flourishing; they just don't give a shit what we think.  They don't need our approval, they have indeed moved on.  There is always Hope.  And Obama took that phrase too, didn't he?  I wonder, can one buy Hope?

 
Posted by mike anton on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 4:54
[Reply to this
w/metta

 
very interesting Emily.

i am someone who has spent much time feeding the homeless.  making PB&Js by the dozens to go downtown and hand out.  bags of apples also in tow.   what i have discovered in my experience is that just like anyone the homeless are very diverse.  many, many have mental illnesses.  many are only ghosts of people deadened by despair and hopelessness.  some are substance abusers in one form or another, and many still are lucid.  intelligent.  aware.  inspiring. 

because the homeless are without regular shelter, food, and the basic necessities of life doesn't mean that they are without free thought, or intelligent thought.  the church will only "convert" those that are willing in the end to be converted.  if one walked away that night with a full belly and a little bit of hope, reprieve, or forgiveness of self i just can't see that as a negative thing.  peace and truth comes in many different ways.  

i'm not denying that too often religion divides and oppresses, but we can't forget that it also has the beautiful capability to unite.  Ghandi afterall was a religious man, Mother Theresea a religious woman, Martin Luther King too... 

the intention behind the meals and sermons seems to be of genuine generosity and assistance.  afterall, what money can the church receive from a homeless person?  i'm finding it difficult to see the greed in this deed.  it's not unheard of that a warming and feeding shelter that is affiliated with a church would try to spread what they believe to be the truth, but just because it is so doesn't mean that it is done so with force or ill will.  i am just thankful that there are people taking the time to take care of others.

coming together means coming together.  religious, non religious, spiritual, scientific...  everyone has something to offer, and if that offering is of compassion and peace and goodwill i will never turn it away no matter who is bestowing it.  love is an action, it knows no barriers.

that being said, i know that your intentions are good.  i'm not trying to say otherwise.  this is just my little two cents.  xoxo





 
Posted by w/metta on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 7:26
[Reply to this
Stan
Stanley Nunn

 
Greetings all,

A healthy debate ensues.   I love it. 

For those of you who have taken the debate to a "Christianity vs Paganism" position, let me say this...it is a non argument.  This was not about the religion of the individuals involved, but the ethics of pitch oriented charity.  By definition charity is the free giving of self or substance without expectation of some return.  This was NOT the case at this church.  Had they allowed the individuals to eat, warm themselves and whatever else they needed, then before they left offered them the opportunity to come back or stay for a voluntary sermon.  That would have been true philanthropy.

I think we all agree that feeding the homeless is a good thing.  As the local coordinator for Pagan pride day where the entrance fee is a food donation that actually goes to an organiztion that feeds the homeless I am aware of many pagan programs that do this.  So pagans do feed the homeless. 

As for the me vs you debate, well let me say this.  Some of the finest people I have known have been chrisitians.  Having been one myself for many years I hold no ill will towards chrisitians or Christianity.  The issue i think Emily was trying to shine a light on was the hypocracy involved in using food as a recruiting tool for anything.  You feed the homeless because they need to be fed period.  If they want or need a sermon for spiritual growth then that should be a seperate issue. 

Now I offer this criticism having not been in that basement or met those people or even still without knowing their hearts.  But i do know Emily.  I know that she is an insightful person who tends to see the nature of a thing moreso than its outward appearance.  I trust that. 

I do applaud you all for a wonderful debate on the issue and for keeping things civil and intelligent.  You have all made wonderfully valid points and I applaud your writing skills.  I was happy to see such emotion tempered by reason.  You are a credit to your faith and english teachers...:)


Namaste,


Nashan
 
Posted by Stan on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 14:54
[Reply to this
w/metta

 
Gandhi.
 
Posted by w/metta on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 7:29
[Reply to this
paul
Furby Paul

 
Hi Emily.

This is my first post on your blog after Manton told me about this "throwdown" and he thought I should chime in. So here goes.
My first impression was that your post was not really as much about religion as it was a creative writing exercise,  following a character and imagining what might happen. Not that you made this up but that with all the word play, metaphors, and adjectives it seemed difficult to believe.   All the images cluttered up my mind as I was reading so I paid more attention to descriptive words than to whatever direct meaning you wanted. I just think more clarity and less cleverness was needed in the piece.

Also I found the shift from the descriptive (following the man to the church and within) to the personal (after you close your eyes and start rewriting the sermon as you are hearing it) a bit jarring as if this was all a set up much like the bait and switch at the church, here is some food  but first the sermon, mirrors in a way your technique, here is a story (who is this mystery tramp ourside my house) and now that you had the reader hooked  you let in on your sermon.

Something else that came to mind is why is Emily Rose doing following some, in your words smelly  "dead for years " zombie around the back streets of Mount Clemons ?  Sounded shifty to me, particularliy since I had no idea what time this happened, and I was picturing it in the evening. 

I suppose you were sincere and all. The whole scene at the church would be something I would certainly avoid.   However I also found the church scene anti-climactic, maybe I was expecting something out of "Elmer Gantry" (Sinclair Lewis's muckraking book about  a hypocritical preacher in the 1920s) but alas not so. Weird noodles and hotdogs, yuck. Acually it reminded me af an attempt at a pulp crime story without the crime.

After the teaser opening I felt a bit let down with an the payoff off general diary type thinking about life, religion, money, and all. Deep thoughts by Emily Rose. Thanks for sharing them.
 
As for that raging two man debate about Pagans vs Christians. Wow. Heretic, Witch, Unbeliever. Do these people have nothing better to do ? Then all the accolades from your fans confused me too. because I myself found this not as compelling as they did. Whatever floats your boat or ark.
 
Come to think of it this whole blog and comment is a sucinct rendition of a religion itself. You have your sacred scripture (the blog) , followed by a jumbled almost mythical story, where you, like a Hebrew  Sidhartha  venture forth into the world, find it cruel and unjust and come back with great wisdom. Then you  achieve accolades from promising young accolytes, and best of all a holy War between Silver Dragon (a symbolic name) and Andrew Workman (also symbolic as in the medieval Everyman).  

In essence there are many words used here, and then more words: Christian, Pagan, Homeless, Bum, Spiritual, Religious, Hate, Money, Love. General words with long varied meanings that are condensed here to little emotional stabs.  I don't see a debate here just talk. But of course everyone respects each others belief and so on, a discovery that religion is bullshit and people are crappy to each other. And western Civillization stinks as well (thanks Manton for that gem of wisdom). And Christians be they of any variety can all be lumped into a 74% category. Somehow I think that no one fights Christians more that other Christians.

I myself grew up in a post Vatican Two Roman Catholisism. But when I hear the word Christian I reach for my gun. If Christianity was so great how come Jesus wasn't one ?
Religion is lots of things, yes, but I don't care to blankly respect everyones stupid faith or belief as a matter of false generosity. I am not scared of Wiccans or Neo-Pagans, what are they going to do throw their Tarot cards at me between coffee sips at Trixies ? 

Religion and money have never been strangers since thay began, from money changers in the temple, to the selling of indulgenses in the Middle Ages, to missionaries asking you to adopt a "pagan babies" in the third world.  And that is just Christians.

But here I am complaining about your writing with this rambling uneven post. Oh well.

As for the R word, eventually I just got tired of it all. I can see faith as something great but there is also a real nastiness to the whole business.

Just being called religious, whatever that may mean, has little impact to me. Sure MLK was religious but so were the white supremecists he fought against, Ghandi was religious but so were his fellow Indians around him and so was the British Empire. Mother Theresa either helped the poor according to the precepts of her religion or hindered them as she had her critics, in Calcutta, and quite roughly by British commentator Christopher hitchens who writes of her as a fanatic and a fraud.

George Orwell wrote in "Reflections on Ghandi" that "‘Saints should always be judged guilty until they are proved innocent". Lets apply that to all of this as well.

And now my own cleverness has gotten a hold of me because I don't know where I am going with all of this and am tired of typing, retyping, and so on...So here I bail out on my own airplane of verbiage

Have a happy new year next week.  

 
Posted by paul on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 18:46
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Nicoley
Nicole Lennox

 
You're fantastic.  :)

 
Posted by Nicoley on Sunday, September 20, 2009 - 22:14
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