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david

david hillyard


Last Updated: 11/18/2009

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Gender: Male
Status: Married
Age: 40
Sign: Cancer

City: NEW YORK
State: NEW YORK
Country: US
Signup Date: 12/6/2005

Who Gives Kudos:


Thursday, December 25, 2008 

Category: Music

Hey everyone.

I was just thinking that Im working on 2 cds right now.  One with the Rocksteady 7 and one with the Blue Greens.

Its stressing me out a little bit.

So maybe we could all share our knowledge about what we like and dont like about different recording techniques and different final products; cds, vinyl, tapes, and mp3s.

I guess Ill start off with what not to do.

My first studio recordings were with the Donkey Show in 1988-89.  We had no one in the band with serious recording experience so we were starting from scratch knowledge wise.

Basically, we put ourselves in the hands of studio engineers who tended to listen to Hair Metal, Classic 70's Rock, and Funk.  They were more experienced, so we often deferred to them when it came time to press record.

We were using 16 track tape in 1988 and then we went to 24 track tape in 1989.  Mixes were done by a committee of 3 members out of a 9 piece band.

The prevailing recording style of the time that we were told to do was this; 1)get as many people in the band together in the room but make sure all the sounds are separated.  then make the basic recordings.  2)throw out everything except for the drums and possibly the bass.  everything else could be overdubbed later with "more precision" we were told. 

As you can imagine this style was slow and we only were able to lay down 6 songs in numerous recording sessions over a 3 year period. 

It also led to stupid mistakes.  For example, our guitar player recorded over his plain rhythm track to do a "cool" distorted track.  Unfortunately, there was a drop where he had to play by himself and without having the rest of the band there he couldnt get the timing right.  Guess what?, the drums were doing an idiosyncratic fill, that was cool and natural, but by not "being there" he couldnt duplicate it.

This was back in the day where you were trying to conserve tracks so that you could only have 1 rhythm guitar track.

We had nice live guitar skanks and organ skanks that we redid for no particular reason. 

We did ridiculous amounts of horn tracks that did serve a purpose.  We could have done fewer if we knew how to arrange the horns better.

I think the most lively track we did was Mr. Brown, which I think included as much live playing as possible.  At least the rhythm section was live.

In retrospect too, the studio engineers were brusque and arrogant.  They were annoyed to be working with 18 year old kids with weird clothes and weird hair cuts.  They didnt teach us basic stuff about eqs so as to maintain their superiority over us.

They also were in favor of cheesy digital effects instead of all the vintage compressors and other tape effects they had sitting around.  They wanted to get as much digital stuff as they could into the mixes.  The warm analog sounds were old fashioned.

We also didnt know much about spreading out harmonies, layering rhythm tracks, etc etc.  In short, we were super green.

But we thought we were rock stars.  Hell, didnt 500 people come see "our" last show at the Country Club in Reseda? 

So anyways, we had much to learn and no one to teach us.  Next up.  Some more recording stories.

jonzenz

 
Whenever possible I like to insist that a band record live together and then I try to keep as much of that as possible. I think it helps achieve a more organic final product. This is especially true in today's age of unlimited track counts where it seems like people want to do a hundred overdubs and guitar noodlings. Now granted you have to have a band that is comfortable enough to do this (aka talented). and obviously I'd almost always redo the vocals at a later time but there's something to be said about a band feeding off of each other in a room that you can't really get by having them add parts piece by piece while listening to only the drummer in a pair of headphones. But hey, that's my two cents - Jon
 
Posted by jonzenz on Wednesday, December 24, 2008 - 11:18 PM
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Squidds

 
I'll fully agree with getting as much live recording as possible. In today's world of ultra-mega-digital-pro tools-plug in-cutn'paste it's so refreshing to just hear a band play, rather than pat themselves on the back when it took them 40 takes to get one line right.

Now, there is certainly something to be said for spending meticulous time picking apart a recording, for meticulous detail. These things can often make an album exist on it's own, rather than as a mere collection of songs. But, these days, I wonder if our technology is making up for our lack of ability.

Good thread Dave! It's definitely making me pull some memories out of my stoned head.
 
Posted by Squidds on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 4:42 AM
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david
david hillyard

 
In, general I agree.
by the way, I meant to say, that we did horn tracks that "didn't" serve a purpose. that is tons of redundant unison parts.
 
Posted by david on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 8:31 PM
[Reply to this
100dBs

 
engineers are dumb. they wish they could be musicians so they withold all of this knowledge... but most of the younger engineers today aren't doing much of anything.


i think it's important to learn how to mix properly on something like a 4-track with very basic EQs before you even try to go on an 8-track or even 16! nowadays everyone's using 64+ tracks like they really need it, and the mixes are nothing but MUD.


and it's hard to strike a balance between overdubs and live... the live feeling is what really gets the rhythm popping, but sometimes it's just not feasible to record a big band all at the same time. a mix of live backing track + subtle overdubs is difficult to achieve, but worth it..
 
Posted by 100dBs on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 3:13 PM
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Ashley!

 
Mmmm can't wait to hear more of them ole recording stories. Luckily, I started from the bottom and there is nowhere else to go but the top (the future).  

You know, playing live is fun. I know this from watching you have fun while playing live. Live shows are cool because it shows that you can actually play a song, that you know your instrument, and that of all the little rifts and notes you could have played, you chose that one. Good choice. During a show, you are in the driver's seat (and not getting frogmarched by Axl Rose). Awesome. Plus, it just makes you look real cool and you can sell some merchandise too, whooo. And for the person that skanked home your newest album, it's more than mere melodies with words attached-- it's a fragment to remember of their life, evidence of a night gone good. Alternatively, if someone recorded it all on their camera/phone, they get to just put you in their bag and take you home. 

In this modern world, it is easy/convenient to record music. Bad music. (I can hear my neighbors now.) Anyone can make a ton of noise for a long time. Lots of people can then choose ones that sound decent and mash it all up like a stew. How much effort goes into something may very well be correlated with how good an album turns out. But I am now guessing that it is not always the case-- in your case at least. 

I think it impossible to solve a puzzle if everyone has an individual piece but can't communicate towards the common goal of solving the puzzle. 

In other observations ... 16 track? 24 track? Haven't seen a player for those ever. Come to think of it, I've also never seen a blank 8 track. I like the name 'Donkey Show'. Hah! I'm so happy to know that as of December, you were recording so much and doing what you love. And touring too? Keep tooting that tenor with tempting tunes. Whoopi-ty-aye-yay!

 
Posted by Ashley! on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 2:53 AM
[Reply to this
david
david hillyard

 
24 track and 16 track are massive tape machines. 
They are known as "reel to reel" players.

You have probably seen them on tv somewhere and didnt realize it.

they look like something from a 1960's sci fi show.
 
Posted by david on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 12:39 PM
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