Great explanation Melanie
 

Melanie, I think that "Myspacer" has a lot of empty space between his ears. Thanks for the great blog explaining the misconceptions that most people have regarding "our true nature." 

Mark, I know what you mean about being a vegetarian in Texas because I once lived there myself, but it's just a matter of realizing that if they look at you like you're an alien or have a problem with you not eating dead animal carcasses, it's their problem, not yours. If you worry about what others think of you, you're just suffering needlessly. And don't let them "shame" you into eating meat. They're the ones who should be ashamed! If you feel better not eating meat, that's your body and your mind trying to tell you something. Listen to it. I realize that Texas is like a big John Wayne movie. I love the Duke as much as anyone else, but the world has moved beyond the days of the cattle drive and hopefully in the coming years more and more people will become enlightened to what is good and right not only for the welfare of animals, but for our own benefit as well.

 

Thank You!  My anthopology teachers would be proud!  Yea our "sharp" teeth are there to tear-the rinds off of fruit!!
 

Iignoring the positive or negative health effects of eating meat, aren't we at least *capable* of doing so, and hasn't it in fact been *necessary* for humans to eat meat in the past in order to survive?  The last ice age wasn't that long ago, and large populations of humans are impossible to sustain without farming - a technology that for most of our history as a species never existed (not until approximately 10,000 years ago in most regions of the world).  In fact, it is only within the past couple hundred years or so that humans have been technologically capable of successfully *being* vegetarians.  Most populations in the world, even as recent as the 19th century, never had access to great enough quantities of unspoiled fruit or vegetables to exist solely upon them.

Our success as a lifeform on this planet can be attributed to our adaptability.  Isn't it reasonable to assume that part of this is due to our omnivore status?

 

Ahh I see your little mudslingers are absent from this blog debate (Im looking at you Josh). Just cold hard facts. Why don't people these days read? (Things other than the bible that is....)

Thanks for the truth.

Michael
 

This is not me opposing what you wrote there, I'm just curious as to why you think people ate meat in the first place...?
 

Oh boy....here we go.  I've had this discussion several times with a friend of mine who's a vegan and is still somewhat convinced that humans are natural herbivores.  I've told her before that there are plenty of good arguments to be made for veganism.  Unfortunately, the humans are herbivores one is not one of those.  It only undermines the vegan cause when you spread this misinformation. 

First of all, herbivores are incapable of surviving on a diet consisting of primarily meat.  Period!  A true herbivore will likely die if they have nothing but meat to eat.  Their stomach acidity level is not high enough to properly metabolize it. Humans are capable of digesting meat just fine.  Our stomach acids do NOT match that of herbivores, OR that of carnivores.  They are between that of herbivores and carnivores.     Also, many herbivores have multiple stomachs, they chew cud and ruminate, etc...  Humans do none of those things.

There are numerous other fallacious arguments that the fanatical pro-herbivore crowd likes to make, but I'll leave you with this  piece of information to chew on (pun intended).  Herbivores have what's called a caecum.  This is the equivalent of the human appendix which in humans is a vestigial organ and no longer serves its original purpose.  Can someone tell me what the caecum does in herbivores?  Ok, I'll tell you in case you don't know.  It allows herbivores to digest a plant material known as cellulose.  Carnivores cannot digest and metabolize cellulose.  So, using the same type of flawed logic that the pro-herbivore crowd likes to use, here's my own argument proving that humans are carnivores.  Herbivores can digest cellulose.  Humans cannot.  Therefore humans are carnivores. 

Now, that argument leaves out quite a bit of info, doesn't it?  It's the same type of argument you guys like to make.  It's basically "carnivores have this - humans don't - therefore humans are herbivores".  It's a crap argument. 

So, if humans are strict herbivores, since herbivores cannot live primarily off of meat, explain how the eskimos managed to survive off of a primarily meat diet?

Plain and simple, if you look at all of the similarities and differences between humans and obligate carnivores and obligate herbivores, humans are true omnivores.

Base your arguments on animal rights, ethics, health benefits, etc., not on bogus misinformation that only undermines your cause. 



 

We are not forced to cook most of the meats we eat.   It simply tastes better to us.   And yes, cooking it does kill certain bacteria that begins to grow once the animal the meat came from is dead.  But again, you're making the same argument I just shot down.  Just because there may be differences between us and strict carnivores doesn't magically make us strict herbivores.   There are differences between us and strict herbivores too, as I pointed out above. Since true herbivores have a caecum and we don't, does this make us carnivores?  Using the very argument you're making, it does. 

I can make the same type of arguments about vegetables.  Why don't we eat them right out of the ground like true herbivores?  When's the last time you saw a person sitting in a patch of lettuce pulling lettuce out of the ground and eating it right there?  We put butter, vinegar, dressings, all kinds of other stuff on veggies.  We also cook some of them just like we cook meat.  Why?  Because it tastes better.    When's the last time you ate a corn cob without cooking it?   When's the last time you ate a piece of lettuce with only the dirt from the ground on it?  Chances are you cleaned it and put some type of condiment on it.  I guess since we don't eat plants the same way a hippo eats plants, that makes us carnivores?  hrmmm......

As I made clear in my last post, we are neither herbivores nor carnivores.  We have similarities and differences with both.  This makes us omnivores.  

 

I rarely post on my own blog, but this time I must

 

I have had this very discussion about 10 years ago with a friend. Please know that I am a vegetarian eater and raw food enthusiast. I do not have to cook my vegetables to enjoy them, I dig it all natural and organic and raw. I proposed to my friend that we both went to our own doctors and ask these questions.

 

If I was to go on a full raw meat eating diet how would it benefit or risk my health?

 

And

 

If I was to go on a raw vegetable diet how would it benefit or risk my health?

 

Note that I asked the other party to ask the same question as I know my doctor may agree with my vegetarian ways in order to keep me a patient, however the friend is a meat eater and the GPs wouldnt have any reason to side with them.

 

Both GPs gave the same answer (go and ask your own if you wish). A raw vegetable diet will not harm you and will improve health.

 

Eating a purely raw meat diet will kill you without a doubt. Our bodies cannot survive on raw meats. Death will be quiet swift and you will not see your next Birthday.

 

Even cultures that had to eat raw food in times when other sources were not available would ferment their food. I do not know a lot about this process but I am told it has high health values even with fermented vegetables such as sauerkraut for anti-bacterial properties of the stomach flora.

 

I have a different GP now which I am seeing for a check up next week. I am going to raise this question once again and see what he says.

 

Anyway, I thought I would share this with you as it is the current topic in my blog.

 

Here is a very informative web site about the benefits of eating raw foods:

http://www.rawfoods.com/faq.html

 

I am interested if anyone has a web site about the benefits of raw meats?

 

 

The problem with most commercially available meats is the chemicals and hormones and other miscellaneous garbage they put in them.   That and the fact that they are not fresh and have usually been sitting there for at least a few days time, during which all kinds of nasty bacteria has had a chance to grow.

Eating raw vegetables alone will likely give you all kinds of vitamin and mineral deficiencies among other things.   There are no known civilizations that have flourished as strict vegetarians.   We need a combination of foods in our diet.   Since we are also capable of surviving off of a very varied diet (omnivorous), that's why we our species has been able to spread out over the entire planet and survive succeed in vastly different climates around the world with different food sources available to us.

It seems like you're still trying to make the point that because there are differences between us and carnivores, we must therefore be herbivores.  You're completely ignoring the middle ground which points to us being omnivores.   Again, there are plenty of differences between us and herbivores also.  This doesn't make us carnivores.  Look at the entire picture, not just the bits of it that support your desired argument.    
 

Greatly informative, and a lovely little debate gone on. Well I will do this, and you will do that, and we can all be different and still peaceful. I feel good as long as I am still livin, when I die I will ask whatever essence is wherever I am at what the answers to all these complex queery's are and get back to everyone....gee i hope they have myspace

Peace ......it's motion, don't get caught being still? haha

 

I'm glad to see more and more people fighting for the vegan cause. Keep up the good work!

Phil from Humanifesto
Montreal political punkrock!

 

what happens if u give a lion, a dog, any meat eater a big bowl of blood????

answer absultly nothing ... now what would happen if u gave a person the same thing????

answer we would get poisioned....if a person drinks more than2 pints of blood we would get really sick.... why???? our digestive system wasnt made for it ... lets look at the liver  ..in meat eaters its biger  ... in plant eaters its smaller .... the reason we can eat meat is that we cook it ... we are obniverious because we are smart enought to find ways to survive..... we cant handel large amounts of iron in our diet.... what has a large amount of iron in it???? ummmm blood....not to menchion all that bad backterea in it

lets do an experment ...... ok people ARE made to eat meat ...  meat eaters dont need to cook there food.... go get your stakes... your hamburgers.... whatever.... mmmmmm sounds good ...... right ???? lets make sure there bloody.....the bloodyer the better..."reamber were meateaters" now eat...... just dont cook it ...... well????? y arnt u eating???? your dog can do it..... what your dog iz better than u ?????

if u were able to eat raw meat ud have no problem eatin chiken ....beef ...pork....rat....bunny.....     raw......alive..... screaming.......

go ahead go to a pet shop and buy a hampster.... now bit its head off ... well y wont u do it .... comeon were meat eaters ...fuckin do it

 

lol...
bak wen we were cavemen i dont think they had farms for big herd type animels
its easier and safer to hunt a vegetable than some stampeding animels that trex are also chasing... so for millions of years we prob were eating mostly fruits n vegetibles and maybe sometimes some chicens an so forth but now we r the top dog we can farm and eat anythign we want but in timescale it hasnt been long enough and our bodies and clearly havnt evolved to meat eaters... but if the animels we ate was toxin free it prob woudnt be half as bad for us... now we polluted like every miliemter of the earth and adding fake plastics and fats and antibiotics and gasses into our foods to make em shelf longer like... i duno. TTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEE ROOOOOOOOOCKKKKKKKKKK comented! holy sh*t... the rock is a legend :D now he was in DOOM3 movie... so he knows wot hapens when we mess wit our dna.. and maybe engineering and posining our foods we will become aliens. peace out. DD

 

From what little I've learned from various sources we are predators and scavengers (opportunists like most all omnivores). We eat anything we can find when food is needed.

But I do have a question to those that may know more... how does our digestive system compare to what is thought of as our closest of animal brethren the Chimpanzee? The Chimp is an omnivore isn't it?

Can herbivores eat meat at all? Are they able to digest any part of it? Does the taste appeal to them in any way?

I don't know for sure, I'm asking. But I can answer yes to all of those questions.

I also love to kill and eat vegetables. I like ripping those little bastards right out of the ground and off the vine and peeling off their flesh when neccessary. And I often mutter under my breath while doing so "Thank the gods for our thumbs!"

 

i agree. im a vegetarian too....
 

Yeah, that’s all interesting information, but some of it is unfortunately plain wrong…

 

We still do have canine teeth, a characteristic of a carnivore!  The reason we don’t need large teeth and claws to hold down prey is coz we invented spears and knives and are clever enough to kill it in other ways.  Before those times, we had bigger canines, temporalis muscles and all that.

pH in human stomach acid is 1-2 when food is present, therefore same as a carnivore.

The human small intestine is around 6-7m long, not 10-11 times body length.  Therefore, we have the same ratio of bowel length as carnivores.  Reason: we don’t need a long bowel to digest fibre as herbivores do, we poo it out undigested.  Herbivores don’t need fibre to clear out their bowel, they can digest it for energy, we can’t.

Cholesterol is not a problem with our digestive system either.  We digest it just fine.  It’s a problem for our cardiovascular system, causing heart attacks and strokes etc…

So, according to that table accounting for the blatant errors, we have characteristics of both herbivores and carnivores, which probably makes us omnivores, don’t you reckon?

 

There is nothing wrong with eating raw meat, provided there are no bacteria/and or parasites in it.  If you kill an animal, then leave it for a day, then eat it, chances are bacteria and parasites will grow in that time that the meat is dead, that is why we usually cook it.  Killing an animal and eating it raw straight away, like a true carnivore is probably just as safe an option, but less practical for most of us.  Our bodies definitely can digest raw or rare meat, a lot of people do eat rare or even raw meat.  I do it all the time, but can understand how some people don’t find it tasty.. and no I’ve never caught any nasty disease.  (C’mon The Rock, what sort of tough man are you, not even liking raw meat??)  In fact, kangaroo meat you HAVE to eat rare, or it tastes like shit. J

 

What’s known as the caecum in animals (humans have a bit of bowel called a caecum that is simply the start of the large bowel with no special function) that digests cellulose has a human counterpart, it’s called the appendix.  It’s shriveled away into a useless bit of nothing, but our ancestors used to use it to digest cellulose, until we started eating meat.  So we used to be able to digest fibre, now we can’t.  i.e. we have lost the ability to digest one of the chief energy sources in a herbivore's diet.  Hence, when we eat grass or leaves, we get very little energy out of it!

  

If your GP says there are no ill effects from an all vegetable diet, then he is misinforming you.  Vitamin B12, essential for the formation of red blood cells is only found in animal products.  Pure vegans need B12 supplements or they risk becoming profoundly anaemic.  Although you can get protein and iron from plant products, meat is a much richer source.  Iron in meat is also found in a form much more easily absorbed by our bodies.  If you stop eating meat, unless you’re very careful with eating alternatives high in protein and iron, you will probably start using your muscle protein for energy (i.e. waste away) or become anaemic from iron deficiency.  It’s true, we can’t survive on just meat, but we also can’t survive on just vegetables.  This means that to survive and get all the nutrients we need we must eat both plant and animal products, i.e. we must have an omnivorous diet. 

So as we always hear, the best policy is a balanced diet!

 

 

 

Utter nonsense. :-)
Here's a view from a typical self destructive hedonist.
For a start the music you listen to says everything about you (self destructive & uneducated).

The people who lived longest on this planet are the Japanese.
They were vegetarian (+ fish) for 300 years: = NO MEAT + NO DIARY.
Why do we have teeth like that? try and eat an APPLE without them.
This planet was created simply like this = Vegetables, fruits, water, oxygene. And that's ALL YOU NEED.
Everything else is junk, crap, and human designed
Which means= MEAT, FISH, ALCOHOL, CIGARETTES, DRUGS (all types), COCA COLA/COFFEE/TEA = Neuro toxic GARBAGE substances. We don't need any of it. And we were never meant digest of it.
AND when you kill an animal there is PSYCHIC ENERGY RESIDUE. And you absorb that negative energy into your energy. Thus CANCER & imbalance etc. is created.

Also MUSIC & WORDS create energy fields. So if you listen to destructive music, or constantly spurt out negative energy words you become mentally imbalanced by this behaviour. Thus your energy becomes sick also.

Every object, space or place has residue energy.

TIME TO RE-THINK your whole lifestyle, instead of trying to justify stupidity & ignorance.
Vegans will outlive you, as the Japanese have proven so.

:-)

Straight-edge is the ONLY natural and progressive mindset, as it returns to the natural dietary source.
We started to eat meat because we were uneducated barbarians. We were animals.
Funny how some of us are still like that. ;-)

ps. the ROCK, is a NATURAL man, he eats as a natural human should.

pps. for women = worried about aging quickly? then remove all negative substances from your diet.
When crap comes into your system the body has to fight with it, and draw energies from your finite source
to deal with it. Thus skin aging. Just tell any women that if you want them to stop smoking. :-)))
 

Of course I respect your viewpoint and your right to express it. But, if I might reply.

Claws and teeth.
Humans, like chimpanzees, started eating meat around the same time we discovered tools. A sharp, pointy stick at arms length is far more effective than teeth and claws.
A young Masai boy alone with a pointy stick and a shield is more than a match for a lion for instance. For countless generations every Masai boy passed this "right of passage" while barely in double figures agewise.
Intestinal tract length.
True herbivores all have mechanisms for breaking down cellulose. The main mechanism for this left in humans is the appendix that has shrunken to a vestigial stump that we seem to function fine without.
Stomach acidity.
Strong stomach acid allows you to break down food more quickly. Necessary when you swallow your food in chunks before the next predator drives you away. We chew our food, it isn't necessary so we can also do away with all the overheads necessary for a highly acidic stomach. We are actually designed for a more seafood biased diet which requires less digestion.
Saliva.
Nobody said we dont eat plants. Omnivores have to cater for both plant and animal food sources.
Shape of intestines.
Note however that plant food passes through our system slowly while animal food passes through quickly. Almost seems as if the mechanism were designed to handle both.
Fiber.
Fiber is a form of grit that slows the absorption of sugar into your blood stream and also bulks up your stools. Yes, fiber is good for you. Thats why cats are sometimes seen to eat grass.
Cholesterol.
Heart disease and diabetes was very rare back in the 1800s, and exceptionally rare in the eskimo population where their diet primarily consists of fish and marine animals. Trans fats and excessive amounts of omega 6 fatty acids causes inflamation of the arteries. When we switched from coconut oil and clean animal fat that we used back in the 1900s to vegetable oils today, omega 6 fatty acids increased. At the same time, heart disease and diabetes went through the roof. This further compounds the problem when hydrogenation was used to harden up the vegtable fats. Hydrogenation creates damaged fats which causes your body to believe them to be a polyunsaturated fat. Unfortunately, the damaged structure blocks your body's ability to metabolise the carbohydrates, which creates insulin resistance.
A Framingham study (http://www.framingham.com/heart/)looked at the components of the plaque build up in the artery walls. They concluded that most of the plaque buildup was in the form of omega 6 fatty acids, some monounsaturated fatty acids, calcium, and even some cholesterol mixed in with semi-carbohydrate-fat molecules, not saturated fats and cholesterol.
Basically it is the high levels of processed PLANT food that causes heart disease.
But aren't humans anatomically suited to be omnivores?
In reality, humans are primarily frugi-vigi-grani-sornivores creatures. Frugi- means fruits, while Vigi- means vegtables, grani- means nuts and seeds, and sorni- means sea-based meats. However, humans also eat milk, eggs, and land-based meats as a secondary protein based diet. In fact, about 3 to 4 million years ago, when humans became bipedal, they had a fishy diet and also ate some fowl and small mammals.

Vegtables contain omega 3 fatty acids, but only in the form of ALA fatty acids. Our bodies can manufacture some form of EPA, but no DHA omega 3 fatty acids, another fatty acid that we need. DHA can only be obtained from animal protein, especially in the form of fish and shellfish. Humans also need vitamin A in the form of Alpha Caratone, B12, and D3, which can be obtained by good quality red meat. However, we don't need as much red meat as we do need to eat some fish.

In conclusion, we are omnivorous creatures that needs DHA and EPA omega 3 fatty acids from fish, vitamin A3, B12, and D3 from some red meats, milk, and eggs, and also anti-oxidants from fruits and vegtables. We do NOT need grains. In fact, horses, cows, and herbivorous creatures aren't designed to eat grains either.

 

 

First off, even if he was right in saying that our teeth are suited for eating meat, it is a fallacy to assume that just because we have a capacity to do an action we therefore should do that action. Examples: Humans are capable of living in the Arctic circle, therefore we should live in the artic circle.

The most solid argument, the biggest thing that hits home, is that a vegetarian lifestyle reduces suffering AND causes us to live about five years longer than those who aren't vegetarian.