Hey, you stole my cake-and-ice-cream analogy!  LOL
 

 

Please tell me you're asking this question rhetorically, just to get conversation going.

Rarely does a subject draw such ire out of me. Sure, I get apoplectic with your CHoSs, but only because people are SO STUPID.

In this case, I get irate because guys like this give tops a bad name. I hear from women frequently how sex is expected (or requested or desired) as "payback" from men, both in the BDSM and spanking scenes. Well, not just men. Women tops are right there, too. This makes me really angry. It puts bottoms on guard. Hell, it's hard enough to trust someone to have them spank you (or whatever you're into) but then, when it's all done and the bottom is all subspace-y and afterglow-y a guy says, "Hey, baby. It's time to reciprocate!" Ugh. UGH! Pigs.

Don't get me wrong. I'm no eunuch. But I get off on the spanking (or BDSM) itself. I relish the closeness and raw intimacy that comes with the aftercare. I absorb the nuance of emotion in those moments. Sure, I realize the guys reading this are thinking, "What a pussy." I get it. Go ahead. Laugh it up. Let me counter with this: any man who EXPECTS a bottom to reciprocate for "services" they deliver in a scene has no place being in it. Period.

Certainly, there are the opportunities that arise from that closeness, that intimacy, that comes when two people find themselves in an erotic, intense, punishing (or revealing, or emotionally raw) scene that could lead into something akin to sex. But to flat out, right up front, say that's part of the "transaction". Ack! Makes me sick.

I've talked about this with friends at SL and FMS parties. IMHO, there are men who attend these events that have as about as much interest in spanking as they do collecting Barbies. They are there in a role as a "top" (or a "bottom" or "switch") solely as a plan (or last resort) to woo a woman into some form of sexual act. These depraved men (and I pick on men because I think they're the majority, but not the sole sex responsible for these offenses) use this as a last resort, preying on the needs of masochistic women for their own ill gains. Have I expressed this makes me sick?

I'm not above a pleasurable scene, don't get me wrong, but invoice for services rendered, payable with sex, gets me angry and leaves me with a greasy french fry feeling in my stomach.

 

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I quite adore this man.
 

Hey, for the record, I'm not saying this for your adoration (though that's certainly a bous). I'm saying it because I MEAN it!!!

 

I know that, you goose. Don't get your shorts in a knot.   I do appreciate your feelings in this. It's nice to know that not every man feels like that particular man does! It would be quite the miserable scene if that were so.
 

This exact issue is why I now attend the spanking parties and don't meet guys from personal ads for spanking anymore. I figure if they have paid the money for a party ticket and to get themselves to the venue, then they are into spanking, and the act itself will be enough for them. I refuse to feel obligated to do things just because someone has "done me a favor" by spanking me. I prefer someone for whom spanking itself is enjoyable enough to be a complete experience for both of us.

 

 

No it's not unreasonable. I consider myself a BDSMer and a spanko. And I consider both seperate. Furball and I share a D/s relationship. We also share a spankee/spanker relationship. The D/s part is more of a broadband emotional thing with physical perks. I've never been the best decsion maker. I've always felt uncomfortable being charge. I'm much more comfortable being told what to do and how to do it both in everyday life and in the bedroom. As far as spanking in that part of our lives, it's strictly a corrective measure. Even if the pain is the same as in a scene, I receive no pleasure and the only reward he gets is the knowledge. I want make the same mistake again for awhile. The spanko side is that Joey thinks his cocky side is a match for my bratty side.(Silly man) So we play. The differance is these are fun for both of us. In all our years together has he ever expected or asked for sex in return in both aspects.
 

 

My take on it, for what it's worth, is that the gentleman in question just isn't a spanko and he doesn't get the whole thing.  For him spanking is just a technique used in a broader scenario that will always lead to sex and he can't wrap his head around the concept that people enjoy spanking as the main (and only) course and it's equally good for both parties.  I won't say his attitude is wrong, because it isn't for him, but it's narrow-minded.  Labelling anyone who doesn't practice something the same way he does as manipulative and selfish is just over the top, in my opinion.  I'd personally resent like hell anyone who tried to force sexual payback for giving me a spanking.  To me, THAT would be manipulative and selfish!  Spank me because you want to or don't bother at all.

 

amen sister!

 

Well said!
 

My stomach involuntarily turned into a knot as I read this guy's two emails to you.  While he expresses himself right to the point, unfortunately I have encountered this expectation VERY often, especially in the personal ads setting.  It is such a turn off to me, and does produce some momentary guilt for my being "selfish", that it squelches the fun of interacting via the assorted personal ads out there.
 

I think our job is to make a decision to NOT give in to that guilt, and just keep seeking the ones who are of the same mind as we are. Frustrating, though, sometimes!
 

I think I told you that I lost my spanking partner because I refused to give him a blow job. From the MOMENT I met him, I knew that's what he expected, and even though he tried to put me at ease with words, still, I could FEEL it. Sure enough, two or three sessions in, when I was just beginning to relax and begin to really trust him, the antics started. I called him on it, he pretended not to know what I was talking about, and then he never called me again. Ever. Not even to say Hello. I'm glad to know my instincts were right on, but I was sad to lose an excellent spanker. I have had NO LUCK in finding another, especially when they hear that NO SEX is a hard limit of mine. NO SEX IN ANY FORM is what I tell them, and they all make their excuses and find a reason not to meet. Someday I would LOVE spanking for foreplay, absolutely LOVE it, but not with every single man who Tops me. I think it comes down to simple boundary respect, and asshats (to use your term) don't have respect for ANYTHING, while decent guys DO. I'm still looking for that decent guy. *sigh*

 

 

I hate being asked that question or someone wanting me to ask them that question. For me, it fills an innate desire that I've always had. It's a chance for me to express myself with someone who knows how I feel and vice-versa. To be able to express a side of yourself that you must keep hidden from those in your every day life is a blessing. I also love to be there for someone who needs what I have to offer and being able to deliver that to them-letting them let go and go into that vulnerable space where I can truly take care of them in a very special way. It's hard to describe. I believe it's therapeutic for the spanker and spankee-that's what is in it for both parties. The catharsis is amazing. I was born to spank naughty ladies and part of my existence is to take care of them be delivering the spankings and discipline they need in a strict, stern, caring, and benevolent manner.

 

R_D, it really is refreshing to hear this point of view. Thank you!
 

Goodness, I sure don't think it's unreasonable, manipulative, delusional, or any other negative term that this guy suggested.  And the only way that it's selfish is in the positive sense that you are considering yourself and your boundaries when seeking compatible play partners.
 

Thank you, Pixie! Yup, my bad, having boundaries.
 

IS it unreasonable/manipulative/selfish/delusional to want to have a spanking scene without some sort of sex as a foregone conclusion?
 

LOL -- thank you!
 

My goodness I have a wife (increasingly vanilla) for sex.I have no problem discussing beforehand that I'm just interested in the spanking.My profile on a couple of other sights is very forthright about this.But I agree Erica,if you meet a perspective play partner who isn't strictly a spanko you may have to explain the ground rules a little bit firmer before the session.

So no you weren't oversensetive or selfish.He was a pushy,selfish jerk.
 

 

Erica,
 

Hi Jim -- very good point. As long as the expectations are spelled out early, one can't really be faulted for one's preferences in this thing we do. I think what bothered me the most was not that he wanted/expected sex, but that he thought women who don't care to engage in that are manipulative/selfish.

True indeed about the different types of spanking. I love all the types, honestly. Just not with everyone! :-)
 

Erica,
 

 

 

IS it unreasonable/manipulative/selfish/delusional to want to have a spanking scene without some sort of sex as a foregone conclusion?

Of course not.  The operative idea here is that spanking between adults is consensual.  One shouldn't be taken to task for choosing to play in whatever ways are comfortable, and the wise person makes those choices clear up front.  Coercion and blithe, self-serving assumptions have no place in that dynamic, and those who attempt to get their way with these kinds of manipulation have bigger issues than spanking and sex.

If someone is a true spanko, then they can fully appreciate all the nuances of a spanking scene and not think of it as a mere appetizer.

This bothers my a little.  Honestly, I begin to get a little queasy when phrases like "true spanko" (or "true submissive", "true dominant", or "true" anything) begin to pop up.  I'm guessing you didn't mean it in that context, right?

I do, however, think it's a mistake to assume that those who combine spanking and sex somehow see spanking only as simple foreplay or "a mere appetizer."  Some doubtlessly do, but for others, spanking (and everything associated with it, from contact to aftercare) is a valid and equal expression of their sexuality; an integral part of who they are both personally and sexually.  I think we get into trouble when we begin to generalize about these things.

Cheers:) 
 

You're absolutely right, Billy. I was a little too simplistic there. My "mere appetizer" comment was about the "what's in it for me" types, and wasn't intended to include everyone who combines sex and spanking. Didn't mean to generalize -- I don't like that either.
 

I know I'm late to this party.. (snort!).. story of my life.. and probably why I HAVE received 'tardiness' spankings. (of course.. I seem to never be late to business related appts... just the romantic interest appts.. lol.. is that 'topping from the bottom'?? (uh-huh.. who am I kidding? LOL)

Let me start by saying.. I JUST REALLY WANNA POP THAT GUY THAT WROTE YOU!

Next... most importantly of course.. is the fact that my own 'pudendal nerves' on my booty are directly wired to the internal workings of my naughty bits. (insert: blush)

So spanking for me.. is a mega mega turn on! I have to be VERY CAREFUL.. as this is why I do not play with (most the time).. with anyone other than a significant other ... cause spanking for me.. is like foreplay TO sex. Matter o' fact.. "go ahead and keep that spanking going during sex too"... that is .. if you can handle me turning into a feral cat.. (insert: bigger blush here). Yeah.. I tend to go a bit wild and crazy if spanked "during" intercourse.. (omg.. insert major chair wiggles just talking about it here)

I'm also one of those people like Alison.. that loves a D/s dynamic in the relationship too. I wish to be considered an equal in the relationship.. but I will yield all final decisions to my TOP... gladly.. as I have to deal with enough decision making in my own businesses... and I love having a strong male figure around at home to rule that roost.

I would consider myself an alpha sub if I had to label myself (which I hate.. but it helps people to understand why I am like I am ... without giving them a two hour dissertation on alpha and female subs) LMAO

I AM NOT one of those hard core BDSM types.. I do get a tad (spew-cough-lol) 'sassy' or 'mouthy' towards my significant other. Never to be mean or nasty of course (well.. okay sometimes I drop the "F-Bomb" with no remorse) ...... it's just that hells bells.. I'm alpha.. you gotta be MORE ALPHA than me to put me in my place... in no uncertain terms. (insert: laugh out loud here)

I guess I've rambled enough huh? LOL

-- Oh... one last thing... I do make it absolutely clear.. if the person spanking me is not my significant other (like at a private play party.. as I never have played in a public venue).... I get real clear about what happens to me during a spanking.. cause I may try to even position myself so I can have an orgasm.. but I usually have no issues about the fact that there will be NO "S E X" with an 'outside" play partner... because I most likely.. know the person well.. and know that they can handle 'me'.. and that they won't get upset.. because they get enormous pleasure from their end.. as they have their own dynamic that works for them.. and I'm extremely thankful there are men like that out there in this world.