I agree with you theft is theft as a writer myself it would piss me off if some person were to post my work with out permission. I believe copywrite would come into play but then again with the internet you never know. But there have been artists who have sued internet music sites and won so who really knows. I checked out the site and they appear to be from france or germany. They have a obsession with natives over there they think it's cool but in reality most of it's insulting. They think they are honoring us but before they get these idea's in there head they should look into protocol.
peace William BraveBull
 

Hello again something bothered me about the name of that group inaya maka then it hit me inaya meaning rock or stone and maka meaning skunk so skunk rock or rock skunk you can choose. I think they meant ma'ka meaning earth but thats what ya get when you don't know the language. just a little humor.

peace

 

Thanks.............LOL!!

 

:(

When you asked them to take it down, they refused?
 

For those that don't know about our group Ulali... For many years...like 21 years I have been apart of a singing group that I began with a few women. We are known as Ulali.

These women are singing Ulali songs. These are our personal songs that we have written for our families and more.

It would be one thing if they had asked and had done a completely different rendition of it. I have been asked by many...if they can sing my songs...and I have said yes. Even to record...we went through the legal door for some and others didn't matter. But we had a trasnsaction...and it was legal...by paper or hand shake.

This is amazing to me...that we are disreguarded.

I asked them to take it down...but instead...they put something up that showed our names...as if we were being honored. What an insult and the arrogance of thinking that what we say does not even matter.

 

uhh ooo im in trouble i have confession to make ive been singing ulali songs in the shower! Im sorry! No, but i know exactly what part of the woods your coming from. Its one thing to have resepct and admiration for natives but you can cross that line to the point where its obsession and false pretense. Be who you are if your not native then your not. I was taught that there are certain things that should not be discussed outside of the house or sacrad sites there are songs that arent supposed to be sang out of season. I hate that native culture is being taken for granted .To be native is to be born from struggle and perservernce and indian is not made over night he or she is created and formed by blood and sinew,not fake turkey feathers and deerskin.Those women or woman or whoever they were were wrong for singing your songs. Btw youve been singing with that group all my life lol im 21.


 

Dear Pura Fé, I remember these French women asking me for friendship a couple of weeks ago. While having a short look on their page I found them just distressing. My first thought was: "Oh my, another circle of crazy esoteric freaks." Often get requests from that "section" and slowly start to wonder wether I look like one *lol*. I denied the friend request and forgot about it.
But now as you write this I think it is a serious thing and you are NOT overreacting in my opinion!
Peace & Love, Kirsten
 

Do you ask permission from every jazz song writer for your performance's when you play in other country's and post it to youtube?
 

This isn't jazz...we're talking about. This is native womens music.

And I was raised in a jazz world. these women are not raised Indian. We have enough sterio typical nonsense and theft.
This effects us greatly!!!
 

I guess...it's more than that.
It's like Bill Cosby taking hold of all the Little Rascals epsodes down,
because of it's racial degredation to his personal connection and love to his people...and all that they have worked for in the arts...who wants to see demeaning characatures of what is suppossed to be you? It's really the same for native people. and believe me...when one starts...it takes off like wild fire...in our world. Just look at our Pow Wow's!! Catching this now...just may save us from the stampede that may be around the corner. Everything we have, always gets taken and warped. I can't sit back and take it as a compliment.

What you're saying does not offend me in any way. I like your words and you're right. It's just so offensive to be so disreguarded in this way. I have asked them to take this down. But instead they added our names. I'ts more than copyright infringement...it's like the mascot at a football game.

 

I don't think you are over reacting. It pisses me off when people in the past have published stuff I've written and not asked.

 

I So love Your spirit Muse You give such and Air And reverence too your Faith And your People With Your Songs
As with All Things even When Writing , One Has too Be aware Of the works Of Others And Give due
Credit and Permmisions when useing someone Elses Work writing Uses Foot notes and Credits As a way to Give credit the Authors
So yes This is A infringment On your work and Maybe Others will learn , you Writing of these Things May just Open A few Eyes.
Be Well And i look Forward too Hearing More of Your Music
 

I hold heartely agree!
 

I think it would be okay if they gave a brief introduction about the song and credited Ulali. But the way they are performing it: without crediting, using a wardrum and all, is a mockery, even though it may not be their intention. Now, here's a student chorus from Stanford who covered one of your songs...they have it credited as "a version based off Ulali's arrangement:"


 

WOW!!!!! Now that's what I'm talkin bout!!!
Beautiful. But they asked me..(Pura Fe here)...if they could sing this.

And I said YES!!!! And look how beautiful! They sang it with respect and they were'nt dressed up in silly native kind of clothing! they were just their normal selves...beautiful!!!
 

Pura Fe' my friend.

Offensive, yes...as they are gathered around a drum to perform. From the appearance of the video they are performing in a public venue. With my limited knowledge of global copyright laws, I am still thinking that they should not be performing your music in public for money without permission or proper compensation at the very least. Your contact to them asking them to stop obviously states your stance on the permission part and that would be a resounding NO. If they continue, perhaps you should be in contact with ASCAP or BMI to start collecting on your behalf. Maybe if they have to pony up some euros...they'll think twice before doing it again. I hate to put it in those terms, but some people only recognize the power of the dollar.


I'm guessing they became immediate Pura Fe' and/or Ulali fans on your recent European tour. Probably figured nobody would figure it out from the states.


They remind me of a group that would perform at one of those German "Indian Holiday Camps" I've heard so much about.


Whew...the more I think about this, the more furious I become. I'm gonna do a little more investigation in the legal ramifications of this.


In the mean time...I hope you are well and hope to see you soon down the road.


J.D.

 

thanks...don't worry JD!
We got it cover'd now. they say they are not making money.

It's not even the money part as much as the image part.

Like...if you look at the video above and watch these beautiful students sing one of our Ulali tunes...what an incredible honor that is!!! a big difference!!

Someone pointed out to me...the terms of being liable and able to put up video's on myspace.

So................I got it coverd now.

 

Excellent. Glad you've got it well in hand. I would expect no less from you though my friend. I agree that the image part is far more important. Big love to you and yours.


 

Love right back at you...JD................pf
 

This conversation has caused me to question something I have done and would appreciate an opinion. As a maker of things (guitars) I have always been inspired by the handwork of native peoples and particularly the basketry. I find the attention to detail and meticulous patterns incredible and can fully appreciate the hundreds of hours it takes to gather materials and make something of this nature. My question is this, I have begun using Klickitat basketry patterns in the rosette designs of my guitars. The rosette shown on my profile is a direct copy of a Klickitat dancers basketry pattern. Does this seem to be an appropriate way to demonstrate my appreciation or is this a form of cultural theft? Any thoughts would be appreciated and thanks for your music and this discussion.

Regards,
Craig Wilson
White Salmon Guitar Co.

White Salmon WA
 

Woah,,LETS back up Kids,,,I am Native American,,,and also happen to be a Writer,,,Songwriter,,Musician,and political BLOGGER,,,,,SO PLEASE,,,,concider this,,,,MANY,,,MANY,,songs we grew up singing,,,either WHITE mans,,or RED,,,,were PASSED along without anyone thinking about it one bit.FOR at least the past 50 years,,,,all those "campfire songs" were freely sung,,and even sometimes recorded by others than who actually wrote them. If someone took a song of mine and sang it ..personally I would be PROUD that they thought evough of it to PERPETUATE it beyond MYSELF. BUT,,if it were a "PUBLISHED",,,,"RECORDED",,song and they did that ,,it would then be a LEGAL INFRINGEMENT of my rights to retain MY "PUBLISHED" SONG.Then I would have to take LEGAL ACTION. THE bottom line here is ,,,,we live in a world of PUBLIC DOMAIN,,,and ANYTHING you put on YOU TUBE,,MYSPACE,,FACEBOOK,,or any other site is their property.Does anyone get upset when someone takes a song they like from any of these sources and puts it on their page without Changing it ???? HELL NO...I have done this many ,,many times,,and so have THOUSANDS of other users.
AND also it has been done to my songs. AS long a I get the CREDIT for the content,,and no one trys to claim it as their own ,,,WHO the HELL cares,,,,?????The ARTWORK is the same thing,,it is one thing to EXACTLY copy something,,,but ,,certainly,,as the last comment about the guitar maker is in testimony,,,,it can not be an infringement if for example someone puts a row of running dear on something,,,or a turtle,,,or the sun,,,Weather you are Native American of not,,you can't CONTROLL these things,,that idea is IMPOSSIBLE to defend,,even Native American art has though the years,,,"BORROWED" many of it's components from "OTHER" forms of ART,,OR ,,,EVEN more SO ,,,from "NATURE"...If these "SONGS" are really so "SACRED',,,,then PUBLISH them,,,,and end it,OR just post them where everyone can "TAKE" them,,it is really YOUR CHOICE.
With all GOOD intention Dylan
 

whoa .......easy on the caps and quotes, my friend .... kind of hard to read! And what's with the statue of the phony Indian? I know that statue == and all the bronze plaques surrounding it with the names of all these fake white "Indian Clubs" ... talk about ripoffs and exploitation!
 

These songs are published. Look down below of the beautiful video of these students singing one of our ULALI songs. Really beautiful.

We're talking about something that is close to the Indian Cartoon Mascot at the football show.

Like a minstrell show. they are completely mocking and taking our show and our songs as we sing them and useing it as their own.
these are completly published and legally I could cream them!!
I just want them to have the respect to take them down. they are portraying themselves in away that is really disrespectful to our way. And they think they are doing our way. they should ask.
Don't you think?
 

Hi Pura, I for one do not! believe You are over reacting, because even they should know about protocol & common knowledge & decency regarding artists rights to music & songs.
They should feel shamed about not giving credit where credit is due!
 

Hi -- just wanted to put a copy of my 2 cents here, same comment made on the MySpace Bulletin. Different audience here...

Feb 25, 2009 6:32 PM
Pura, I don't think you're over-reacting at all ... I'm Jewish, and back in the 40s and 50s it was common practice for a lot of non-Jews to actually record their own versions of Jewsih and Yiddish songs -- and of course they would butcher the lyrics and make a big hit out of the mangled song ... I'm think of Connie Francis, the Lennon Sisters, I think even Wayne Newton -- who says he's Native! I remember even as a kid, that it was silly at best. I wasn't insulted at the time (I wasn't even a teenager yet, and terribly naive about pretty much everything in the world. By the time I matured, the era of mangling these songs by Lawrence Welk Show guests was pretty much over and (thank heavens) being replaced by surf music... at least until Jimi Hendrix (at least part Native!) decreed in a song, "May you never hear surf music again!"). Now I look back on it and can't believe that all these mis-sung traditional Yiddish songs were such big hits and made so much money for these people. To them, they were singing "novelty songs". And then I realize this started so soon after the Nazi Holocaust! Were they honoring Jews? I don't think so. Were they singing these songs because the world's Jewish population had been decimated, and most of the European Jewish elders had been gassed to death and their bodies turned into soap and lampshades and the assumption was that there'd be less protest over it? Possibly (sound familiar yet?) After all, who was going to complain? Everybody knew back then that there weren't any "real Indians" out there to complain &/or protest! What's worse, when I look back on it, that even people like my parents, whose generation had gladly enlisted in WWII specifically to stop the Nazis, were buying these records and making the singers, their managers, and their record producers millionaires! Now I'm disgusted by the whole thing. It's like the Brewers & Shipleys of the later pop music world making a bundle from Jim Pepper's Witchi Tai To, when they didn't even sing the words right... and others as well, who weren't necessarily adding new lyrics, just butchering and mangling the words that were already there. I don't think it's all that different from encouraging white children to "play Indian" by cutting feather headresses out of construction paper at Thanksgiving time, or to paint those hugely romanticized pictures of beautiful Indian "maidens" with Barbie doll bodies and buckskins, drawing water from a river, putting the painting on a plate and selling them as collectors items -- or, as I've seen in some museums, displaying clothing gathered from Indian massacre sites, with the bullet holes and bloodstains still visible, on the assumption that: who's going to complain if all the Indians are "gone"? There was even at least one group, a Jewish group of all things, who did change the lyrics: from "Water to Holy Spirit", which is only marginally Jewish even! I think the Brewer & Shiplery version -- a very big seller -- made total gobbley-de-gook out the lyrics -- "What a spirit spring/springing round my head" -- didn't make sense in English! But people bought it, thinking they were listening to some kind of exotic song without a clue about where it came from. After all, who was going to complain? Everybody knew back then that there weren't any "real Indians" out there to complain &/or protest! And then there's the high school and professional sports teams with Indian stereotype mascots -- and I won't get into that argument here (not enough room for that rant!) Over-reacting? No. I don't think so.
And now that ("miraculously") the Jewish population has been restored, and the Native population and culture have grown so much, through a few generations of births and Natives shedding their protect
 

I'm sorry -- sloppy typist that I am ... I have a sentence towards the end that says a group recorded Jim Pepper's "Witchi Tai To" .... and I bungled it. It should read "...change the lyrics from 'Water Spirit' to 'Holy Spirit'..."
 

The way we could approach this is two ways: the personal significance that goes along with sacredness and the historical.


This woud be an example of cultural appropriation - the taking of Native American (specifically your tribe)culture and adopting it into their own. What is difficult is historically, most people do not think Native people hold intellectual property (i.e. grave robbing, stealing of native american artifacts, etc.) It's this type of dehumanization or extra-human stereotypes they put upon us as Native Americans (i.e. our romanticized connection to "mother earth", the noble savage, or the 'dumb' indian motif) When cultures appropriate minority culture it damages it because the initial value that it was given is diminished and the songs/prays can become meaningless or changed. It becomes problematic legally because they may not (or so it seems) be in the United States.


This is troubling for us as native people. I understand that songs were passed down but the thing is - it was much more than songs - it was lessons. Even today - our youth should show some understanding despite how much has changed (i still sing young men follow the older men on the dream - young girls imitate grandmas when they dance). We have the same issues of Pan-indianism and pow wows - I hear a lot of elders say stuff about how pow wows have changed so much because of how widespread they have become that something has been lost(and I understand cultures adapt annnd it's not that I am against pan-indianism or pow wows - i think it actually also brings us altogether in a powerful way) but like I will continiously repeat - Adaption and change shouldn't mean a compromise of our values and beliefs that go along with what we did. They is a sacred meaning to all that we approach.


It's hard for example that they seemingly use Lakota words but not from a Lakota perspective but a western perspective the linguistically limits their understanding of the sacredness when we say Maka Ina or Inyan (Who can deny the significance of Oral tradition?!) It's harder when we are forced to speak on each other tribes behalf because what may be true for Lakota may not be for Iroquois or Cherokee or the Apache, etc. So it's even harder when we have non-natives trying to "okay" cultural appropriation. That's where my biggest challenge lies when I've heard people "okay' something that has nothing to do with their culture. IF YOU feel that it's wrong - then that is all that matters.


What makes me say this is because they purposely chosen to disrespect your opinion by the continious use, and respect (I am generalizing all Native tribes - sorry) is a big part of our culture - if they can't understand that - what is the meaing behind the songs and everything that we were taught?

If they truly cared - they would respect us - if they honor "mother earth" they would respect all that it encompasses. Teaching them would be the best way but that is your/our choice.


I would say that you are not overreacting because this is your own and much like commercials, etc. they are using your music to "promote" an idea that you don't agree with or find suitable.


If they truly honored you then they would respect your choice.


Songs are like a sacred prayer because our 'breath' is sacred - therefore they do not truly understand that significance that using your music your songs is abuse of your culture/inspiration therefore a sign of disrespect. Respect IS about our culture - and if they are missing that point then these woman have more to learn.



The truth is this: People shouldn't market something that is "native american" and sell it. This is what is damaging our cultures in my opinion. There is a point that people have to realize these symbols MEAN something. Our values should not be compromised for others, it's our right to protect our culture as much as we can.


yet, people will always take and borrow what they can to make it something of their own - but it's important that WE keep what we have alive. That is our struggle that we must teach others. I hope that these women will listen to you.


Sorry if this doesn't make sense cuz it's really late and i am tired,
I highly respect your music and you women for what you have done for all people.

Thank you,
Kellyn

 

Dear Kellyn,

Thankyou sooo much for taking the time to explain and write all that you did and in the way you did. This is right to the core of the matter giving total validity and legitimacy to every point of why respect is needed!! May I please...forward to them, your very fine words of explanation to their attention? It seems, that I wil be seeing them in France...at one of my concerts soon.


I think your advise is a good one too. I would rather approach them than not.

And your words are really the road to walk on...for sure!!
I so appreciate what you've said. the voice of reason.


A couple of months ago...I wrote a blog on a similar issue. Your response also speaks for that as well. There were a couple of other responses that were full of thought, experience and complete frustration. So your solution is coming from a voice of reason.

May I toot this horn of yours??? They just may hear it!!
It's just the right words..............much respect to you Kellyn....................Pura Fe
 

Thank you for your kind words...I do not mind at all if forward it to these women...I really sincerely appreciate your response : ) I agree that talking to them is the best solution - the rest is up to them.
Stay strong, and keep singing,
Pilamaya,
Kellyn
 

PS if i made any unfair assumptions (which i made assumptions about these women THAT COULD be wrong) or about tribes/etc.

Please forgive me!

Take pride in who you are, no matter who you are.

Kellyn
 

i agree with u 100% on that many still take us for granted like we can't take a stand on things
i support u in this matter for am Native Tuscarora & beleive aslo in the political area we must also come togehter & stand strong
 

Pura Fe,



As a huge fan of yours, and everything you do in our communities all over this continent, and abroad, I am offended for and with you. I am offended that someone would take and basically destroy what your heart has put back into our communities.




I am also writing an open letter and will send you a copy of it.
So, a word or two - giiirl!



Please don't let this discourage you. I and many others stand behind you, and I think you know that more than any of us do. Anything that we and especially I MYSELF can do to support you, please know that we're all over the place, and are waiting for that call.




Love, and Blessings,

Robin




 

I think that this is horrendous that this had happened to you. If even they had asked permission first and then credited you up front that would be one thing-even if they are not making much money from it. As a person of mostly irish/scottish ancestry who plays the native american flute I guess I tread kind of a thin line myself-but I never portray myself as being native and am proud of my own ancestry. If I perform in public I always just "play from the heart" (ie my own original songs improvised on the spot) and would never play another persons song unless given permission first. That is just common courtesy to say the least.
In working with animals as I do-I can feel a calling to play songs inspired by nature and am interested in learning of various native beliefs but only in a respectful way and would never misappropriate them-I think this is very important!!! Sincerely- Dennis Hanna
 

Ko' M'aaiisoh no nanee da! I tried watching that maddeningl video, but couldn't finish because I was so angry! They have stolen so much from us & now they want to steal our Culture, too?! I mean, I've had problems with Twinkies before at Pow Wows (what NDN hasn't) trying to explain to some blond, blue-eyed twink that her fancy WHITE BUCKSKIN dress was an offense to every NDN there (White Buckskin needs to be earned over a lifetime & mostly only the Ama'Sanis or Grandmothers wear it) Not to wear your hair loose, the feather doesn't go up like a finger, etc. We usually get the great, great Grandma was a Cherokee spiel. I admit, sometimes I loose my patience.
I swear though if I'd seen those THIEFS singing OUR songs, I would've completely LOST IT! It's too much! My Sister, you are far from over reacting! I might have come out swinging!



I am a writer & singer. I also sing with my brother's Drum Group at Pow Wows. One time, at the Taino Cafe' some years ago in NYC, I was doing a Spoken Word piece I'd written - a piece about how people discount the Red Race - never mention us as a Race, or as a people - keep talking about the 4 races. I grew up on the Dine' Rez with my Ama'sani. We went through so much just to keep our family alive! I'm sure you know what our Rez is like. I was made fun of because I'd had a Scottish Grandmother on my mom's side & I have dark auburn hair - so what? I grew up with my people, have been an NDN activist since I was 17 & still keep our old ways & traditions. I WILL NOT see them stolen! I think we NDNs should come together to stop the theft of our culture! I intend to reach out to as many as I can.
Pura Fe, I am fuming right now! Much love, Firewolf Bizahaloni - Nelson
 

I visited their page... and I can completely understand why you are upset.




Although it is very possitive that these woman are seeking a spiritual connection with Mother Earth, and with each other, I agree that they are stealing music.




If they performed Beyonce songs, she'd sue them for violating her copyright.


How can you sue someone for violating your historical right?!



I think their performance, from what I heard on their player, was lack-luster and not particually emotionally connected to what they were doing.... Their voices don't convey a feeling of "prayer" and "connection".




*sighs*



Stealing hurts.





 

they were performing my songs...they took them down. If you really want to understand...there is an excellent read above from one of the other commentators. It's long but well said!
Thanks...............pf 
 

Rainbow Family Native Prophecies

The different Indian tribes were not surprised when landed on their shores white, black and yellow men. Since very ancient times, the prophets had foretold the coming of men of other races. They knew also that these newcomers would submerge the ancient cultures living on this land they used to call Turtle Island at that time. It was also said that later, the spirit of the Indians would find refuge through different races gathered on this Earth. 

But, only a part of the represented races would become conscious that we form but only one Family. 

So, regardless of their racial origins, these Rainbow warriors will bring great changes and great transformations regarding the way of living in harmony with Creation and with all human beings. 

- Heyoehkak Merrifield, Cherokee

‹‹ There is truth in the prophecies of the Rainbow and the Rainbow people. People from all of the Americas will unite with people from all the other nations, and they will realise that we are all Family, brothers and sisters. This is not my personal vision, but the cosmic vision presented by all the elders, a vision that we all share. ›› 

-Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez, president of the Maya Elders Council in Guatemala, keeper of the calendar and the prophecies 

‹‹ Native prophecies say that mixed-blood and white people who grew their hair long and wore beads would come to the Native healers and ask for guidance... The prophecies say that they would return as the Rainbow people in bodies of different colors: red, white, yellow and black. The old ones said that they would return and unite to help restore balance to the Earth. The story of these Rainbow Warriors is told by many peoples in many different ways. We feel that we are in that time now when the Rainbow Warriors are coming about. So it is a time where we have to aknowledge that we are all human beings upon the same planet and that's what the Rainbow Warriors are all about.›› 

-Sun Bear, late Ojibway teacher and founder of the Bear Tribe Medecine Society 

‹ We have the opportunity to build a Rainbow bridge into the Golden Age. But to do this, we must do it together with all the colors of the Rainbow, with all the peoples, all the beings of the world. We who are alive on Earth today are the Rainbow Warriors who face the challenge of building this bridge.›› 

-Brooke Medecine Eagle Daughter of the Rainbow, Crow and Lakota medecine woman 

there is a different story, another point of view another  understanding

please watch this link, and understand that there are men and women who work at every moment to love peace and understanding between people...

the music is the universal language that allows us to share, come together to unite...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us-TVg40ExM

and may the peace be with your hearts and your minds...

 

Pura Fe,

I think the bigger issue I'm hearing is your -- our -- inability to inflict reciprocity upon these women-folk artists.   We know very well that if these women were U.S.-based, we'd be screaming "imposters" and "perps" from sea to shining sea.  They would be forced to stop what they are doing, and/or run out of town in shame for usurping someone else's culture and talent.  All this without the need to file legal paperwork.

Where is the justice when we cannot inflict reciprocity upon people outside the U.S. that usurp indigenous culture, traditions, medicines, etc.?   It is not about the money...It is about respect.

Noemi