Thanks again Todd.  I find your blog challenging and I am looking forward to the rest of your entries.

The scenario is interesting and gets to the question of location in and out of the womb; i.e. should location decide when "life" begins or is at least when "life" is protected by the law?  But when we look at when abortions really take place in the US, 86% take place in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, and late term abortions are rare (a little over 1% after 21 weeks gestation).  So, while the scenario poses an interesting theoretical question, it would not be a common situation to have a child who would live days before a planned abortion.

Thanks again for your blog Todd.  These are interesting and important topics, and I admire your courage to blog about them.

Leslie

 

Just to use the numbers above quoted by leslie, that still makes for greater than 20,000 late term abortions in the United States alone last year.  Not theoretical, 20,000 real babies dying. Is 20,000 a big enough number to catch your attention?
 

I think we should be careful with our terms.  Both sides of the abortion debate have their own lingo, and I think part of the impasse in actually hearing both sides is the use of that lingo.  Late term abortion is actually not medically defined (there are several possible definitions, but no consensus).  Academic sources quote that there are approximately 1.3 million abortions in the ..:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />US each year, about 18,000 over 20 weeks gestation.  It is important to realize most fetuses can not live at 20 weeks gestation, and the estimation of abortions past 24 weeks gestation is 0.08 percent or about 1,000. 

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In saying that, I think that both from a God perspective and a policy perspective "life" does have value.  Part of this discussion is when does "life" begin and when should "life" be legally protected.  I think it is important to discuss these issues.  The issue of abortion has many sides and many faces; I think we should be especially careful to use the best data we can find in order to have the most honest discussion. 

 

 

As surprising as this may be to some people, there is no debate within the medical community as to when life begins.  Life begins at conception.

"[The Zygote] results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm ... unites with a female gamete or oocyte ... to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual." 

From: The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed.
Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18.

In this text, we begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual. ... Fertilization takes place in the oviduct ... resulting in the formation of a zygote containing a single diploid nucleus. Embryonic development is considered to begin at this point... This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."

From: Essentials of Human Embryology
William J. Larsen, (New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998), 1-17.

"Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed... Fertilization is the procession of events that begins when a spermatozoon makes contact with a secondary oocyte or its investments...  The zygote ... is a unicellular embryo... "The ill-defined and inaccurate term pre-embryo, which includes the embryonic disc, is said either to end with the appearance of the primitive streak or ... to include neurulation. The term is not used in this book."

From: Human Embryology & Teratology
Ronan R. O'Rahilly, Fabiola Muller, (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996), 5-55.

"It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitues the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual."

From: Human Embryology, 3rd ed.
Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw Hill, 1968), 43.

"The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life."

From: Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics
J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Friedman, (Philadelphia: W.B. Sanders, 1974), 17.

"Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition."

From: Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant, 3d ed.
E.L. Potter and J.M. Craig, (Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975), vii.

"It is incorrect to say that biological data cannot be decisive...It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception."
- Professor Micheline Matthews-Roth
Harvard University Medical School

"I have learned from my earliest medical education that human life begins at the time of conception."
- Dr. Alfred M. Bongioanni
Professor of Pediatrics and Obstetrics, University of Pennsylvania

"After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being. [It] is no longer a matter of taste or opinion...it is plain experimental evidence. Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception."
- Dr. Jerome LeJeune
Professor of Genetics, University of Descartes

"By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."
- Professor Hymie Gordon
Mayo Clinic

"The beginning of a single human life is from a biological point of view a simple and straightforward matter – the beginning is conception."
- Dr. Watson A. Bowes
University of Colorado Medical School

In 1981, the US Senate filed a report reaching the following conclusion:

"Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being - a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings."

We know that life begins at conception.  This is apparent by the pro-abortion advocates trying to debate when does 'personhood' begin.  We all know when life begins, so now they try to debate the beginning of 'personhood.'

 

 

 

 

I think I said this before, that I disagree with abortion, however you would have a hard time convincing someone who isn't a Christian. It seems like everyone in this blog is on the same page. I would find it hard to dispute that God is against abortion but if we are talking about a purely secular context that might be harder to debate. I think you certainly could make the case but I also don't think that women just have abortions to discard children. With all the scripture mentioned here (which is great by the way) I just don't see much concern given to what would drive a woman to do something like that?

And no, it's not the same as slavery as someone said before. I've heard that comparison but it's not the same because slaves were already outside of the womb and plus they were stolen from another continent already -- they were never the slave owner's child to begin with (except in the case of rape which is a whole other topic). We are talking about a woman's body here and I think that's one of the reasons it's such a hot topic is because women have and still are oppressed in our society that for a bunch of old white men to tell them they can or can't have a baby seems to be contradictory. I'm not saying that makes it right but I think that's why there is so much resistance. To some women it's a matter of having rights that have for so long been oppressed.

Even though I am completely against abortion I think it's important to look at it from someone else's angle. Have you ever spent time with someone who had an abortion? Perhaps one that has had one and doesnt regret the decision? Why would someone do that? We all make decisions based on our set of values so I hate to see someone cast as the bad guy simply because they have a different set of values and more so I hate to see Christians look narrow minded and ignorant, waving their stop abortion signs at a protest or bombing an abortion clinic. I just think we need to show a little more empathy in all areas for our common man -- stretch our thinking to see the other point of view.

 

<P>stephen:</P><P>knowing quite a few men who have paid for abortions and women who have had abortions, I believe that abortion happens because people feel trapped; like an animal who is caught in a trap is willing to chew off its leg.... a woman who feels trapped is willing to sacrifice her offspring.</P><P>In my opinion, women have abortions because they fear the loss of opportunity... They assume that life will be difficult if they try to raise this baby; (it is easier to abort this child before there is any emotional attachment.)  </P><P>I think that the issue of abortion in our society is similar to slavery; it is not the same.  But it is a matter of a terrible injustice being directed to a class of human beings who have no voice.  As a white man, I realize I can easily offend many by bringing up slavery and comparing it to abortion.  I do not wish to do so... But I see slavery as a great injustice and stain on our country.  I see abortion as a great injustice and a stain on our nation.</P><P>Although the fetus in inside the woman's body; the fetus is NOT the woman's body.  The fetus is her child and  I believe that the child's right to life is greater than the woman's right to not be pregnant.  The pro-abortion/pro-choice advocates believe that the woman's right to not be pregnant is greater than her child's right to live.</P><P>Also, protesting in front of abortion clinics with stop abortion signs should not be mentioned in the same sentence as "bombing abortion clinics."  Protesting the injustice of abortion is a constitutional right.  Bombing an abortion clinic is murder.  If people don't protest, no one will expose this darkness. </P><P>Lets show more empathy for our fellow human beings who are being terminated in this country at the rate of 1.3 million per year.</P><P>I hope this comes across in love and not in a hateful, scornful, or flaming way.  I enjoy debate...  </P>