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Scroobius Pip



Last Updated: 11/26/2009

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City: Stanford le Hope
State: London and South East
Country: UK
Signup Date: 2/26/2006

Who Gives Kudos:


Wednesday, August 26, 2009 

Current mood:Proud of the REAL fans
Category: Sports
Theres no avoiding what happened at Upton Park on Tuesday night so i felt i would like to address it and give my view and opinion.
And im not just going to slag off West Ham!
Although its tempting.
I was at the game.
I was inside the ground so i didnt see all the terrible scenes that went on outside so i cant really comment on them. From what i have heard BOTH sets of fans acted discgracefully. Doing as much damage to their own supporters by throwing bricks and bottles as they did to their supposed enemy.
Although i wasnt outside i can comment on how i feel this could have been avoided and handled.
Millwalls allocation of tickets was cut dramatically (i believe by the police). Inside the ground, away support CAN be governed and contained. With a small area to cover it is manageable by a combination of stewards and police. With this being such a local rivalry it was ridiculous to think that cutting our allocation would stop huge crowds of "fans" coming down to Upton Park. Those who wished to start trouble would still make the journey and, as we saw, the trouble would erupt in far more widespread and almost unpoliceable terrain.
Both sets of fans are at fault here.
Now to inside the ground.
As you would expect the atmosphere was intense.
Both sets of fans exchanging abuse from before the kick off.
When Millwall went ahead it was a dream come true for all the South London lot.
From that point onwards Millwall seemed ontop. Shockingly we werent just out working West Ham but actually outplaying them! Harris, Martin and Hacket were having a field day running rings around a team two leagues our senior.
For the 70 or so minutes that we were on top you heard very little from the West Ham fans.
in about the 70th minute the police had some trouble trying to stop a number of West Ham fans in each corner next to the away support from trying to burst through.
In general it was handled well.
The police at times seemed a little heavy handed but, in the inflamed environment, it wasnt too shocking. The Millwall fans jeered but remained in their area of the ground (which is pretty easy to do when you are winning. Taking the higher ground is far easier then).
Then, against the run of play in my opinion, West Ham equalized.
The Hammers fans flooded onto the pitch.
Millwall did not.
Once order had been restored (the police and stewards ellecting to let things die down naturally instead of going full force) the game continued.
As soon as it got into extra time it was clear that from the 90minutes of effort from Millwall, they were out of gas. West Ham started to take control. There were two more goals and two more pitch invasions. All from West Ham.
I was very proud to see all the Millwall fans, whilst angered, remain in their allocated area. A mindless few threw things on the pitch but onto empty ground. Not at people. Still a condemable act of course. But the restraint shown was impressive.
I heard alot of people complain that, after each invasion mor epolice and more stewards where allocated to police the MILLWALL end. This may seem bias and unfair but, once again i would applauded the policing. it was clear that they could not handle the whole ground so by standing infront of the millwall fans it would stop anyone from our end that may try to invade the pitch and also stop anyone getting to us. Preventing a clash of fans inside the ground should be the main objective.
I did, however, feel this gave little consideration to the safety and well being of our players, left stranded on the pitch amongst hoards of rival fans.
After the final whistle we were kept in the ground for about 20minutes as the home crowd left. During this time the Millwall team came out to applauded their support for remaining in their allocated area and showing support from start to finish. They threw their shirts into the crowd and there was mutaul appreciation.
I feel that Millwall, as a club, handled this tie as best they could.
Millwall HAVE a hooligan element. That is a fact that is engrained in our history and reputation. But, as a club, they have spent years doing all they can to control and eleminate this from our game. To get tickets for this tie you had to be a season ticket holder. For all away games you have to be a member of the supporters club so that they have all your details on file. If you are identified causing trouble you are banned. THIS is why the behaviour of the Millwall fans IN the ground was passionate but within reasonable restraints.
The actions OUTSIDE, from what i have heard, were disgraceful. I have been going to millwall for 20 years and I am not the type of fan to just pass it off as part of the fun of it all. I do, however, feel I have to use this space to highlight the relentless and constant efforts on the part of the people at this football club to do all they can to stamp this behaviour out.
Now, most of y'all on here that follow me probably dont give a shit about football so i will stop my rant now!
Well done to everyone at Millwall, on the pitch, backroom staff and in the crowd.
As the players left and we were finally let out of the ground a chorus rung throughout our support...
"We're proud of you Millwall"


p.s. I would also like to quickly condemn the actions of one Carlton Cole who repeatedly made obscene gestures at the away support. At such a volatile game someone of his stature in the game should NOT be further insighting things. I have heard reports that he had suffered racist abuse. I did not hear this but, if this was the case then the fans responsible AND Mr Cole should both be punished accordingly.

TossMyPancake ☠
Scott M

 
well said Scroobius,from the footage i've seen i felt really worried about how the fans easily got to all the players and found it reassuring how the west ham players tried to get the hooligans back to their seats,people are saying now they should play these kind of games behind doors now but that would deny the true football fans from seeing the game,which is wrong.Well done to the Millwall fans though,you would have thought your fans were the premiership side judging from your fans reaction in the ground.I have a feeling this kind of trouble is going to be seen at the Aston Villa vs Birmingham game in a couple of weeks,i hope not though

 
Posted by TossMyPancake ☠ on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 11:08 AM
[Reply to this
TossMyPancake ☠
Scott M

 
behind closed doors rather,not behind a door haha

 
Posted by TossMyPancake ☠ on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 11:11 AM
[Reply to this
Figure One

 
Personaly i cant stand it when any player from any team jears an oposing crowd. As an Aston Villa fan im lucky enough to support a team whos players generally dont do that. I find that more offensice than taking your shirt off and waving it around after a goal, maybe that needs to be looked at in more detail. After watching the footage of the game it does seem to me that West Ham supporters ruined this game, i can understand the passion that comes with a local derby but theres never an exuse for how they acted. Im talking more about the atempts the get into the millwall crowd than the pitch invasions. Pitch invasions are rush's of blood to the head and is an understandable reaction albeit a wrong one. I did feel very sorry for the millwall players too, i remember watching a Birmingham City fan invading the pitch and doing a little wanker motion in front of Peter Enckleman and give him a slap on the chin (he was a wanker!). You've come to watch a football match! sing, dance, gonga, clap all you like. These kind of actions arnt welcome and do spoil great games! instead of a thrilling 3-1 victory over your rivals all people are talking about is people getting shanked and fights. watch UFC or summat. I can't see simular trouble for the Villa - Blues game. i think both fans will have the restraint and common sence not to fuck up a good local derby
 
Posted by Figure One on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 12:04 PM
[Reply to this
Major Tourist

 
Those fans/hooligans/thugs are scum of the earth. A shoot on site policy wouldn't be harsh as far as i'm concerned. They make me sick.
Seeing as shooting them probably won't be something the police are willing to do just yet, the clubs need to be punished severely. It's the only thing that will hurt them. Either point deductions or removal from competitions will soon put a stop to it. Tho some say, 'you can't punish all for just a few people's behaviour' .. yes you can, and you must. It's the exact same thing as when you get vile racist chants from large numbers of fans at games. It's never all of the fans but when its a significant number then it becomes the voice of the club abd the club must be punished.
Unfortunately, you can't physically hurt these people but you can hurt the club they claim to love and this is the ONLY thing that will make them think twice about their behaviour.


 
Posted by Major Tourist on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 12:21 PM
[Reply to this
Ataraxia
Andy Carrington

 
All football hooligans disgust me. A majority of these people aren't even bothered about the game; quite simply, they go out to find a ruck. It's sickening.

 
Posted by Ataraxia on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 1:10 PM
[Reply to this
stuporfly
Crispin Kott

 
Having grown up in New York, I knew precious little about hooliganism until recently, when an English friend got me into the Premiership (I'm a Villa fan, enjoying televisied contests at Nevada Smith's whenever possible). Since then, I've read some books (including the excellent Among the Thugs), yet still feel I'm no closer to understanding why anyone would behave in such a manner. I'm an enthusiastic fan of a few teams in different sports, but outside of booing and catcalls, I've never been tempted enough by mob mentality to take it any further than that.

I've a seven year old daughter who I've taken to see the Yankees and the Liberty (NYC's WNBA franchise), but I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable taking her to see the Villans. It's a shame, really.

 
Posted by stuporfly on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 1:17 PM
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David - Beatdom
D.S W

 
Carlton Cole is an idiot... And the crowd were pathetic. These actions are simply NOT FOOTBALL! I know it's not always a beautiful game, but it's usually so much better than that.

I've seen some awful things in my time watching Scottish football, but it never gets to that stage. That's an embarrassment to the club and to the game as a whole.

 
Posted by David - Beatdom on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 2:13 PM
[Reply to this
: THE FUTUREPROOF CUDDLING POP BLOG BY PG£ :

 
Sadly, some people are violent cunts - it comes out one way or another whether it be at football, outside the pub on a Friday night or in the living room....

What I don't like is the current trend that suggests these things can and are being controlled by the state...

I find this idea a whole lot more dangerous than a bit of stupid petty violence outside or inside a football ground...


 
Posted by : THE FUTUREPROOF CUDDLING POP BLOG BY PG£ : on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 5:47 PM
[Reply to this
Joe
Joe Vaughan

 
I was there also and I agree with what you've said, Carlton Cole, an England International, giving the wanker sign is out of order racially taunted or not, abuse is part and parcel of the game and you've gotta take it on the chin and then say something after to the correct people, not turn round and call the away fans wankers. Despite the teams involved and the anticipated violence, young children were still present in the stands and would have seen this England International, possibly a role model for them, doing this yet nothing has been mentioned. In my opinion he has no argument to the racism (which I too didn't hear and sounds like a pop at Millwall to dig themselves out of the shit they find themselves in now) because he retaliated, Jason Price also reported to have been racially abused by home fans but nothing has been reported about that yet and the spotlight is turning to millwall already. The media make me sick!
 
Posted by Joe on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 7:53 PM
[Reply to this
Future Underground

 
Yep, it was disgraceful.  I'm a Blackburn fan and I fear a similar incident when we play Burnley this year.  It'll cost us (Blackburn) but the team needs to be punished to make it clear to all supporters that this sort of behaviour is an embarrassment and is detrimental to the club's image. 
I could go on, but I'm sure you and your fans are in agreement about the wrongness and shitness of such behaviour.
Glad to hear (I'm asuming here as you've not expressly articulated this) that you are alright though.  Now you'll just have to make sure you judge the small situations you'll find yourself in; work out when to say something and when to stay quiet, in a pub and overhear a 'fan' bigging up their bravery in the chaos.
Stay safe, bite your tongue when neccessary and rant about it later (you could probably get some material from it ;)
Much love
 
Posted by Future Underground on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 9:00 PM
[Reply to this
AK

 
I'm sorry but if monkey chants are directed at you, in this day and age, by responsible grown 'adults', then they deserve all the wanker signs they get. It shouldn't matter if you're a professional or not. It's funny how everyone, including you Pip, is saying "I have heard reports of racial abuse, I didn't hear this, if this happened", etc, well do you think people are just randomly making this up? What would he have to gain from this? It's not exactly that far-fetched a possibility.

The worst comment I've heard here is "abuse is part and parcel of the game and you've gotta take it on the chin" NO, RACIAL ABUSE IS NOT PART AND PARCEL OF THE GAME YOU STUPID IDIOT.

I know that this will disproportionately affect the innocent fans, but I really think harsher punishments are necessary, if not banning from the competition concerned, then at least docking of points, hefty fines, elimination from Europe, etc. It's clear that lifetime bans do not affect the people who do this. Furthermore, clear pictures of as many troublemakers as possible should be posted up on the FA/PL website as well as all Millwall related sites so people know who is responsible. With the World Cup bid and our national reputation to think of, this is the only way this will hopefully be prevented in future.

 
Posted by AK on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 9:02 AM
[Reply to this
Scroobius Pip

 
I agree completely that harsh actions should be taken on anyone making racial comments or abuse. However, I also believe that in such a volatile atmosphere, reacting in the way Carlton Cole did only serves to insult violence. It could very well have caused the Millwall fans (including those who DID NOT make racial comments or, like myself, didnt hear any) to pitch invade or riot causing even more damage and mayhem. Individuals should be dealt with in the harshest way. But to make wanker signs at the whole away fans is irresponsible. If he could have in someway singled out the individual doing it then and make wanker signs to him then thats fine, its deserved. But if risking the safety of other fans, stewards and police by insiting an incident then it is not appropriate. Racial abuse should NOT be part and parcel of the game in any way. I did hear some anti asian abuse and felt it to be disgusting and should be punished. However it should be punished in the correct and harshest way. Not through unprofessional, inflamitary gestures. But thats obviously just my opinion.
 
Posted by Scroobius Pip on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:02 AM
[Reply to this
Antistarr

 
Yes... God damn... I'm Arsenal through n through and remember a particular UEFA Cup evening in Copenhagen quite a few years back... During a nice and chilled out pint 2 hours before the game with my bro, a chair appeared infront of my face from nowhere twotting my pint into a million peices, as I turned to look, the bar had miraculously filled to the busted seams with hoolies kicking, punching, throwing, spitting you name it, some kitted out in Arsenal shirts, some in FC Copenhagen, but the majority were plain clothed or topless, plenty of swastikas, lovely lovely bunch...
Now as I was totally sandwiched in the middle of this bar - that might as well have been Baghdad in 2003 as it was given the 'shock and awe' of hideous genocide via a lie about WMD's - which is another story in itself obviously - I had to find a way out, so I bee-lined for the door but got a good one from behind just above my ear and before I could look up was back where I started with a pounding, swirling head...

My point is this... I'm no hooligan, I hate it to the ends of the universe, brains have long grown, opened and evolved, but to get out of that situation, one that I'd never choose to be in, I had to fight fire with fire and swing my way out, flooring a few guys in the process just make it to the door, pretty nasty stuff and from out of the blue... Firstly does that make me a hooligan or someone fighting hooligans in order to stay concious and not get stamped and kicked in the face to a certain blood bubbling death? Some would see that as a fine line, and not have the intelligence to delve deeper.

And my final, main point is... Arsenal hooligans were up there with the worst in those days, but now you wouldn't see it, you just dont, the team itself is one of, if not the most disciplined and most proffesional setup's in modern football with the right attitude and it comes from inside the club, Wenger as a walking talking example and in my view Milwall are well on the way to following suite.

Evolve the club, then the hooligans and their backward ethics just dont fit anymore...their brains hurt and they walk away not understanding, proving at the same time that it was never about the football to them and them alike in the first place, not once.
It's close to eroding away in this country, that mindlessness, even if the BNP for example think it's not - even if the government help them see what they think is hope for the right by feeding the fear - it IS eroding, but, on the flip side, police and those responsible for preventing these things, these glaringly obvoius to predict things, need to turn their ears up and open their eyes a little wider till then...the world is and will never be fluffy bunnies no matter how fluffy it gets.

Peace & Punches

Onus*

 
Posted by Antistarr on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 6:06 PM
[Reply to this
Ian Horn

 
to state the obvious- hooligans have an agenda that has nothing to do with supporting football.
I feel privileged ( quality control has been a bit dubious over the years mind you!) to have watched Sunderland since I was 2 years old ( I was younger than the club's mascot - a black cat) and have not witnessed any hooliganism because the s/land fans really care about football and their club and would not want to jeapordise this love affair they have with the beautiful game .

 
Posted by Ian Horn on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:33 PM
[Reply to this
Count!,Chrome-An-Silver

 
There is truly an infinite amount of angles you could take on this whole event. However, I shall endeavour to keep this short,sweet and as balanced as possible.
First of all I think we should all be able to agree that the Police did a pretty good job the other night of keeping both sets of fans seperate before and after the match.
There were indeed a few knuckle dragging neer-do-wells from each side that had turned up at Upton Park station earlier in the day to try and start something with each other but the majority were soon caught by the Police and those that did try and dig chunks out of each other were so far removed from Upton Park that it had become a meaningless scrap between a small group of dim wits.
It was obvious as soon as the draw was made that there was going to be trouble before they had even kicked off.The Police and the majority of people knew about this already, so it really shouldn't be so suprising that something did happen,just suprising that the West Ham fans found it so easy to invade the pitch.The rivalry between the two is one of the few remaining true derbys in the country and certainly one of the most volitile when taking into consideration the history of the two clubs.
Millwall have had the fair share of trouble over the years,I'd like to think you would agree Pip,but they have done more than any club e.g Leeds to stop violence at matches both home and away. West Ham are behind in that respect simply because there hasn't been that much trouble of late,give them time to follow in the footsteps of Millwall and problems shall surely be solved?
The major playmaker in this whole affair has been the media fervently flogging this dead horse of a news story.I assure you this is not the dark days of the 70's and 80's football hooligan,the fans just got a bit over excited and it all boiled over.I feel West Ham fans should have had a harder time getting onto the pitch, but when in a situation like that, where you certainly don't want sets of fans mixing, what are you going to do?
Try and guard 20,000+ home fans or make sure that nothing can get in or out of the 1500 away fans.
I hope you'll agree Pip that the same events would have occured if the result had have gone your way and you were at home?
There is always going to be people turning up outside grounds without tickets that just want to spoil matchday for everyone else because they can go and look "geez" to all their mates in the pub.
Looking at the Sir Trev' stand this morning it would appear all that Millwall fans did inside was tear a few seats up.
The media have truly succeed in stirring up a story out of something that should have only last 48 hours in this wonderful world of rolling news.There was violence between Wolves and Birmingham a little while back, but few reported it.Cardiff and Swansea is still one of the most volitile matches you can go to but the Police put their heads down and get on with it.All in all it's not as if West Ham fans are gonna go up to Blackburn this week and do the same again and neither are Millwall fans when the go and play Orient soon.The more this is mentioned the more press it shall gain and the more kids shall feel the need to recreate some skewed vision of the "glory days" that their fathers' once lived through.
 
Posted by Count!,Chrome-An-Silver on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:34 PM
[Reply to this
Scroobius Pip

 
I agree with this post 99%. The only part i dont agree with is that there would have been the same pitch invasions at Millwall. I feel the case tends to be IF there is an invasion it is only one or two at Millwall and they are dealt with promptly. I dont think THREE seperate invasions would have happened or been tolerated by the away team, ref, police or the rest of the fans come to that. If it had been at millwall i genuinely think that the game would have been abandoned. But thats EXACTLY why our manager elected NOT to remove the team at Upton Park. Because we have seen and suffered from over reaction largely because of our reputation in the past.
When we had two people run on the pitch and taunt the Leeds keeper last season he was in the paper saying he feared for his life and has never seen anything like it before. Directly after the game our manager, Kenny Jacket, was interviewed and specifically stated that at no point did he fear for his life or safety and that, it was mostly just over jubulant fans acting abit silly.
An admirable and rare act or actually tyring to play things down instead of mud sling.


 
Posted by Scroobius Pip on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 7:06 AM
[Reply to this
Scroobius Pip

 
not that im saying YOU were mud slinging! haha. just to make that clear. I thought your post was spot on.
 
Posted by Scroobius Pip on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 7:08 AM
[Reply to this
Thou Shalt Always Kill.
Jonathon moloney

 
Kenny Jacket is a legend. Watford through and through, I think there's a correlation between having him at the club and the reputation of Millwall improving ; )
Seriously though, it's good to see the club are going to ban the wanker in the Galatasaray shirt from the weekend.
 
Posted by Thou Shalt Always Kill. on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 5:31 PM
[Reply to this
Count!,Chrome-An-Silver

 
No worries,glad to hear we agree on the majority of the matter.
I agree with the fact that if an invasion had have been incited at Millwall it would have been dealt with much more swiftly and less would have joined in.
Millwall have come so far in dealing with hooligans over the years that the majority now realise that the slightest thing they do can result in a lifetime ban from the club they love.
So rare are pitch invasions at Upton Park that there was a fair few supporters that felt the need to join in when only very few had broken past the stewards.
I feel the only way to deal with them is to give them the harshest punishment possible (lifetime ban) to set a very fear invoking lesson to the rest that would ever consider diving onto the pitch again.
 
Posted by Count!,Chrome-An-Silver on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 1:02 PM
[Reply to this
GarlicMayo

 
Watching the reports on TV I thought I saw Ross Kemp running on the pitch.  It's an absolute disgrace having a public figure like Ross behaving in this way. He should not only be banned from all football grounds but also from our screens as well.  It may not have been Ross Kemp but just someone who looked like him, but I think just to be on the safe side we should ban him from the TV.
 
Posted by GarlicMayo on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 8:40 AM
[Reply to this
Attila The Stockbroker (RIP Seething Wells!!)

 
Just found this: well said mate. Compared to the bad old days (I remember when the nutters climbed into the seats to attack middle aged Albion fans with scaffolding in the 70s, having failed to break throiugh the police lines to get at the rest of us, and the play off second leg in 1991 when they set fire to their own stand!) you have made huge strides - the walkway from Bermondsey station is a pleasant stroll compared to the gauntlet through the streets and that bloody underpass at the old Den.....
I enjoy going to Millwall now.
Like your stuff, by the way!
All the best Attila (PA announcer/DJ at Brighton)

 
Posted by Attila The Stockbroker (RIP Seething Wells!!) on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 10:13 AM
[Reply to this
Attila The Stockbroker (RIP Seething Wells!!)

 
oh..and would you like to do Glastonwick festival next year?
http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/beerfestival.html

 
Posted by Attila The Stockbroker (RIP Seething Wells!!) on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 10:16 AM
[Reply to this