The first time I collided with The Shining was, in itself, a weird experience. Their demo arrived, and after I opened the envelope, the first thing that fell out was…pornographic material, but more of that later – even though it helped set the tone when I interviewed bass player Rogier I had… Their music was so intense; I instantly became a fan. The interview occurred just before Municipal Waste hit the stage, The Shining having played as support. Rogier had the most to say, but the rest of the band was there to back him up…
Interview by Martijn.
 

MM: So, the early days of the band, how did the music you play develop? Not many bands embrace the same sound you do, incorporating influences from the 80's crossover bands…
The Shining: We always wanted to play this type of music, but our previous guitar player just couldn't pull off typical crossover riffs. Our new guitar player can, so we finally get to do what we set out to do. We just took the opportunity given to us. Our old guitar player could play punk very well, so in the beginning we were more like a punk band.
MM: Did it feel like a revelation? Like opening a new door for the Shining?
The Shining: Nah, nothing heavy like that, just the sense of knowing we were able to play the music we really like. I have to point out that we don't play this music because it's becoming popular again. That was never our intention.
MM: I understand that, but it might happen and maybe you'll be picked up and become "hip", become "essential". Have you noticed it becoming a trend, the whole Crossover thing…?
The Shining: Not sure, we are compared to all these other bands; DRI, Municipal Waste and Holier Than Thou? and we have noticed that this genre is getting bigger again. Personally we always wanted to head in this direction, but couldn't due to simple musical limitations.
MM: Have you noticed any of these changes yourself?
The Shining: Well, we were called the "Most Worthless Band in the Netherlands", some time ago, so we're getting there.
MM: Seriously?
The Shining: You know, it was one of these kids on some message board, with nothing better to do, but it felt like a compliment.
MM: Back to crossover becoming bigger…
The Shining: Personally I think the term crossover sounds a bit negative these days. You could call Limp Biscuit crossover too and I don't ever want to be associated with that band. In the end it doesn't really matter, as this style will never become hip and as long as we like playing it we will. And our influences don't only come from these types of bands, we also listen to old hardcore bands and a lot of metal bands. The Shining is a mixture of tastes and influences. If someone thinks we sound like DRI for example, others are going to copy and pick up on that. Apparently being called hardcore or metal doesn't work for us, but crossover does.
MM: And your lyrics I get the feeling you try to see a humorous element in everything, but there's always this sad, angry and serious undercurrent…
The Shining: Yeah that's true, many of our songs thrive on cynism.
MM: Is there a message that you're trying to share?
The Shining: The first rule for us is: never point your finger at anyone. Never try to force your opinion on anyone, or teach anyone, anything. Instead of saying: "Everybody dies and Bush is to blame for it." We say: "Life sucks and we will all be dead soon." And even if we do mention someone we think is to blame, we never provide a solution for the problem, as in the lyrics for "Song for the Rest of the World, Except You". We keep it straight forward, the way we see things and interpret it. That is what comes out in our lyrics. Not some preconceived notion of what we are going to preach or talk about. We never preach about anything.
MM: So you notice these things, but never offer a solution?
The Shining: That wouldn't make any sense. We don't have the solution and would never pretend that we did or do. We get mad about the things surrounding us, and pour that anger into a song and relevant lyrics.
MM: All right, what about your personal convictions? You don't want to give or offer a solution for the masses, but how do you feel about these things on an individual basis?
The Shining: You mean like being an activist? We don't feel connected to activism in the sense of going out to protest or climbing and storming barricades. For us it's all about observation and we prefer to stay off side or in the wings when people start talking about changing things and the world.
MM: With some true political bands I always get the impression they want to force an opinion on you instead of letting you form your own…
The Shining: Right, and with our songs it doesn't mean we don't have any opinions or aren't against the horrible things people do to each other, but at the end of the day, you have to form your own opinions about these things.
MM: Is that the reason why you don't talk in between songs?
The Shining: We do talk in between songs, but always keep it short. Most of this has to do with the fact I just don't like all the talking. I'm concentrating on our music and want to ensure that it remains our priority. Kicking the shit out of our instruments is what we like to do. We put out a lot of energy to make it a great performance instead of making a statement. It's also important to point out that, because we don't have a simple message everyone will read our lyrics differently. So talking about it would be pointless.
MM: And if they get the wrong impression?
The Shining: That's their problem. We do read the newspapers and watch the news, and we do incorporate that into our songs, but like I said, everyone will read it differently, and the outcome is not our responsibility. And we also take into account that there are a lot of people who know a lot more about certain topics than us. If you try to read a newspaper every now and then you'll know what's up with the world, we offer our thoughts and what we think about certain things in a song, and others will have their thoughts about whatever the song is about or the subject being dealt with. To each his own, right?
MM: Do people ever approach you after reading your lyrics?
The Shining: That's never happened. I'd like it to happen though, as I am intrigued by how others have interpreted our lyrics. The only thing we know about our lyrics from people outside of the band is what we read in reviews. Our music is in the line of crossover and our lyrics are in the direction of bands like Seein' Red.
MM: Seein' Red? Doesn't that bother you as you are not that politically outspoken and cling more to the nihilistic side of politics?
The Shining: I don't mind. To be honest I don't think that's a personal opinion about our lyrics. The writers just notice small things and put a tag on things according to what they've picked up on or noticed, and it really doesn't bother us at all. Come to think of it, I really don't think anyone will be able to pull any political ideas from our lyrics. I would love to talk to someone who can.
MM: As you said you see things happening and you write a song about it, but when do you feel a topic is important enough to write a song about? Like what recently happened where a cellblock at Schiphol airport burned to the ground and eleven people died, would that be an angle for a song?
The Shining: Yeah, it could be, as it is something I feel was totally wrong. Eleven people died in that tragedy. But then again what could I say about it? I'm not interested in saying the politicians are a bunch of assholes. I guess it could be condensed into a few lines like Schiphol 2005, then trying to illustrate how horrible it is to be burned alive. Use shock effect you know?
MM: So you would emphasize the fate of the victims instead of complaining about minister Verdonk and how she dealt with this whole situation?
The Shining: We would try to globalise the lyrics, as we always try to do. A name like Verdonk is not important to people outside of the Netherlands, but the way immigration and  immigrants have been dealt with is a much more common problem unfortunately. A more general lyric would communicate the problem with more people. Our band is just not reactionary in nature, and if you want the government to fall and it does, you have to find a new target to fight. We could however, write a song about the consequences of our governments policy, as that is something, which will have a long lasting effect. So the laws and policy and how they effect people could and should be food for thought, instead of complaining about a certain politician.
MM: When do you feel a topic is important enough?
The Shining: That differs, but mostly it's something that I really think is just wrong and has been wrong for a long time. It has to be something that makes me angry and my lyrics and our music are a way to channel this anger. It has to be something that triggers my emotions and frustration. We have written a song about the end of the world. It basically says that if we continue raping the earth as we do now, we will destroy ourselves. We can't provide you with a solution to the problem as we don't have it, but it is a problem that touches and affects all of us. We always try to give our lyrics an absurdist edge or twist. Like when we say suicide would be the best solution for overpopulation. If there were no humans the world would be a better place. It's totally absurd but also holds some truth. We, humans, are to blame for all wrongs in this world.
MM: You said you tried to globalise all lyrics and the topics you talk about, but how Dutch are these lyrics. You live in the Netherlands, and most of the resources you get your news from come from a Dutch perspective? Do Dutch events touch you more?
The Shining: I think everything I see has the potential to touch me. Our background could be called straightforward and sober and other than that I don't think it does matter. I can't imagine a German or an Italian would look any differently at the injustice that is happening around us all the time. I'm sure that everyone would approach the situation from a similar lyrical perspective.
MM: As you also have a lighter side, do you ever write songs about nothing at all?
The Shining: Absolutely, that could definitely happen.
MM: Do you use humour to create a balance in your lyrical approach, or do you think humour is also a good way of releasing pent up frustration?
The Shining: We just need to have a good time every now and then, we're not sad and angry men thinking about the end of the world all the time. You have to let things go, and humour is a good way to keeping your own life in line.
MM: I think humour is something that's too often missing in hardcore and punk, and the bands that make up the scene. They take themselves way to seriously.
The Shining: Yeah, that's exactly the way I think about it.
MM: Do you feel that you need to teach people about humour?
The Shining: We do feel it's important to have fun. We play in this band mainly for the fun of it, not to voice our thoughts or to change this world. Fun is important and shows the reality of the world because as bad as things might seem, there are also a lot of great things. Humour is the best way to see things in a certain perspective. We were in Auschwitz and that's where both ends of the spectrum really meet. You can feel the historical importance and the horror that took place, but you also feel like you're in an amusement park, where Japanese tourists are taking pictures and where you can buy slices of pizza, whereas the prisoners of that camp had nothing. We took group photos under the sign "Arbeit Macht Frei". You can't get a better contrast between evil and entertainment than that. Still, it also helps not to get sucked in to the sadness of history of the place too much.
MM: In that respect, it's a shame that people don't react to your lyrics, as the absurdism might provide the fuel for some good conversation and debate…
The Shining: True, and I'm really interested in what people think. So all readers can put their thoughts in the guest book on our site. Again maybe that has to do with us not utilising a single message. Maybe people don't know what pigeonhole to put us in. Our lyrics are too objective to disagree with, and we do not choose a political side. If we gave opinions or solutions people would disagree and we would probably get more feedback. We base our lyrics on our own emotional experiences of the things happening in the world, often with an absurd or humoristic twist. We don't want to drown in sadness, that's just not the sort of band that we would like to be. I would like to point out however that we do take writing lyrics seriously.
MM: All right, turning the conversation upside down. You sent me a demo about a year ago, which was packaged with some Serbian porn. What was that all about?
The Shining: Yeah, now we are finally getting somewhere. (laughter). We were on the way back from Serbia after having played there, and because I hadn't picked up any girls during the tour, the other guys thought it would be a nice gesture to give me some porno magazines. Back home I needed to send out a couple more demos and so I tore up the magazines and sent pages of them along with the CD's I was mailing out. The porno was just too perverse to adequately explain…
MM: Yeah, I know I almost threw the whole envelope out of the window…
The Shining: It was the start of a very nice porno collection. Our manager Mark has a nice plastic box where he keeps all of the best magazines. Back to the beginning though… All credit goes to Antidote, they initiated it all. Huib of the band is to blame for all of it. He bought the mags, and just threw them in the car while we were on our way to the show. And these guys, Mark and Niels were playing chess all day long, trying to be intellectuals. Until we got the porno mags in the car. That's where the tradition started and we have bought magazines on several occasions since then. The collection itself started during our second Serbian tour, as what we'd picked up the first time around was sent out with the demos. Something which we feel very sad about. So to everyone who received a demo, please return the porn to us, please send it all back. How's that for an ending?