let me be the first to add to this discussion....

SLC was great. I don't see where the CTs can get off with making re-cuts and somehow thinking that they have more credibility because of that. I have never seen the History Channel re-cut a documentary because their facts were bullshit (but maybe I just need to watch the History Channel more often).

If this text shows up bold, Mark needs to remove HTML comment capabilities.

 

HERE FREAK:

Mike Walter

USA Today's Mike Walter was driving near the Pentagon when he saw an American Airlines jet fly directly into the country's military nerve center. [544kB WAV download]


Steve Anderson, Director of Communications, USA TODAY

A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye.

It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke.

Deb Anlauf

Anlauf was watching TV coverage of the Trade Center burning shortly before 9:30 a.m. when she decided to return to her 14th-floor room from another part of the hotel. Once in her room, she heard a "loud roar" and looked out the window to see what was going on.
"Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window," Anlauf said during a telephone interview from her hotel room this morning. "You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook."


David Battle

Battle, an office worker at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said. "And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking."

Omar Campo

Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head.

"It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane," Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here."

Gary Bauer, former Presidential candidate

“I was going past the Pentagon, really inching a yard or so every couple of minutes. I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine.
“I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn’t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment.


Mickey Bell

Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane´s wings as it sped by him. In shock, he got into his truck, which had been parked in the trailer compound, and sped away. He wandered around Arlington in his truck and tried to make wireless phone calls. He ended up back at Singleton´s headquarters in Gaithersburg two hours later, according to President Singleton, not remembering much.

The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn´t realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell´s work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal, but Bell had no idea what had happened.

Mark Bright, Defense Protective Service officer

Mark Bright, actually saw the plane hit the building. He had been manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance to the building.

"I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area," he said. "I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." The plane would have been seconds from impact -- the annex is only a few hundred yards from the Pentagon.

He said he heard the plane "power-up" just before it struck the Pentagon. "As soon as it struck the building I just called in an attack, because I knew it couldn't be accidental," Bright said. He jumped into his police cruiser and headed to the area.

James R. Cissell

''Out of my peripheral vision,'' Cissell said, ''I saw this plane coming in and it was low - and getting lower.

''If you couldn't touch it from standing on the highway, you could by standing on your car.''

In the next seconds dozens of things flashed through his mind.

''I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board,'' Cissell said.

He remembers the helipad the plane flew over before smacking into the Pentagon was close enough to him that ''I could have thrown a baseball at it and hit it.''

Dan Creed

He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off.

"It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said.

"I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," Creed recalls.

Don Fortunato

“Traffic was at a standstill, so I parked on the shoulder, not far from the scene and ran to the site. Next to me was a cab from D.C., its windshield smashed out by pieces of lampposts. There were pieces of the plane all over the highway, pieces of wing, I think.”

Afework Hagos

Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in."

Tom Hovis

Being a former transport type (60's era) I cannot understand how that plane hit where it did giving the direction the aircraft was taking at the time.

As most know, the Pentagon lies at the bottom of two hills from the west with the east side being next to the river at 14th street bridge. One hill is at the Navy Annex and the other is Arlington Cemetery. The plane came up I-395 also known as Shirley Hwy. (most likely used as a reference point.) The plane had been seen making a lazy pattern in the no fly zone over the White House and US Cap. Why the plane did not hit incoming traffic coming down the river from the north to Reagan Nat'l. is beyond me. Strangely, no one at the Reagan Tower noticed the aircraft. Andrews AFB radar should have also picked up the aircraft I would think. Nevertheless, the aircarft went southwest near Springfield and then veered left over Arlington and then put the nose down coming over Ft Myer picking off trees and light poles near the helicopter pad next to building. It was as if he leveled out at the last minute and put it square into the building. The wings came off as if it went through an arch way leaving a hole in the side of the building it seems a little larger than the wide body of the aircraft. The entry point was so clean that the roof (shown in news photo) fell in on the wreckage.

Terrance Kean

Terrance Kean, 35, who lives in a 14-story building nearby, heard the loud jet engines and glanced out his window.

"I saw this very, very large passenger jet," said the architect, who had been packing for a move. "It just plowed right into the side of the Pentagon. The nose penetrated into the portico. And then it sort of disappeared, and there was fire and smoke everywhere. . . . It was very sort of surreal."

Charles H. Krohn

One of the aircraft's engines somehow ricocheted out of the building and arched into the Pentagon's mall parking area between the main building and the new loading dock facility, said Charles H. Krohn, the Army's deputy chief of public affairs. Those fleeing the building heard a loud secondary explosion about 10 min. after the initial impact.

Maj. Lincoln Leibner

Maj. Leibner drove in and made it as far as the south parking lot, where he got out on foot. "I heard the plane first," he said. "I thought it was a flyover Arlington cemetery."

From his vantage point, Maj. Leibner looked up and saw the plane come in. "I was about 100 yards away," he said. "You could see through the windows of the aircraft. I saw it hit."

The plane came in hard and level and was flown full throttle into the building, dead center mass, Maj. Leibner said. "The plane completely entered the building," he said. "I got a little repercussion, from the sound, the blast. I've heard artillery, and that was louder than the loudest has to offer.

Elaine McCusker

Traffic is normally slow right around the Pentagon as the road winds and we line up to cross the 14th Street bridge heading into the District of Columbia. I don’t know what made me look up, but I did and I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating. My first thought was just ‘No, no, no, no,’ because it was obvious the plane was not heading to nearby Reagan National Airport. It was going to crash.

William Middleton Sr.

William Middleton Sr., was running his street sweeper through the cemetery when he heard a harsh whistling sound overhead. Middleton looked up and spotted a commercial jet whose pilot seemed to be fighting with his own craft.
Middleton said the plane was no higher than the tops of telephone poles as it lurched toward the Pentagon. The jet accelerated in the final few hundred yards before it tore into the building.


Mare Ann Owens

Looking up didn't tell me what type of plane it was because it was so close I could only see the bottom. Realising the Pentagon was its target, I didn't think the careering, full-throttled craft would get that far. Its downward angle was too sharp, its elevation of maybe 50 feet, too low. Street lights toppled as the plane barely cleared the Interstate 395 overpass.

The thought that I was about to die was immediate and certain. This plane was going to hit me along with all the other commuters trapped on Washington Boulevard.

Gripping the steering wheel of my vibrating car, I involuntarily ducked as the wobbling plane thundered over my head. Once it passed, I raised slightly and grimaced as the left wing dipped and scraped the helicopter area just before the nose crashed into the southwest wall of the Pentagon.

Christine Peterson

I was at a complete stop on the road in front of the helipad at the Pentagon; what I had thought would be a shortcut was as slow as the other routes I had taken that morning. I looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane flying so low I said, “holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car” (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing.

And then the plane crashed. My mind could not comprehend what had happened. Where did the plane go? For some reason I expected it to bounce off the Pentagon wall in pieces. But there was no plane visible, only huge billows of smoke and torrents of fire.

Frank Probst

American Airlines Flight 77 approached from the west, coming in low over the nearby five-story Navy Annex on a hill overlooking the Pentagon.

"He has lights off, wheels up, nose down," Probst recalled. The plane seemed to be accelerating directly toward him. He froze.

"I knew I was dead," he said later. "The only thing I thought was, 'Damn, my wife has to go to another funeral, and I'm not going to see my two boys again.'."

He dove to his right. He recalls the engine passing on one side of him, about six feet away.

The plane's right wing went through a generator trailer "like butter," Probst said. The starboard engine hit a low cement wall and blew apart.

Clyde Ragland

Ragland described billowing black smoke and "what looked like white confetti raining down everywhere." He said it soon became apparent "that the 'confetti' was little bits of airplane, falling down after being flung high into the bright, blue sky."

Tim Timmerman

A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."

Thomas D. Trapasso

Thomas D. Trapasso, a political appointee in the Clinton Administration who is now looking for work, was making telephone calls from his deck in Arlington Village, about 1 mi. south of the Pentagon and just west of the Interstate 395 (I-395) highway. He was startled by the large American Airlines aircraft flying about 300 ft. overhead. "The engines were just screaming, and the wheels were up," Trapasso said. "It disappeared over the trees, and I heard a boom. I knew something awful had happened--that an airplane had crashed somewhere in Washington, D.C.

Alan Wallace

About 9:40, Alan Wallace had finished fixing the foam metering valve on the back of his fire truck parked in the Pentagon fire station and walked to the front of the station. He looked up and saw a jetliner coming straight at him. It was about 25 feet off the ground, no landing wheels visible, a few hundred yards away and closing fast.

"Runnnnn!" he yelled to a pal. There was no time to look back, barely time to scramble. He made it about 30 feet, heard a terrible roar, felt the heat, and dove underneath a van, skinning his stomach as he slid along the blacktop, sailing under it as though he were riding a luge. The van protected him against burning metal that was flying around. A few seconds later he was sliding back out to check on his friend and then race back to the firetruck. He jumped in, threw it into gear, but the accelerator was dead. The entire back of the truck was destroyed, the cab on fire. He grabbed the radio headset and called the main station at Fort Myer to report the unimaginable.

The sun was still low in the sky, obscured by the Pentagon and the enormous billowing clouds of acrid smoke, making it hauntingly dark. The ground was on fire. Trees were on fire. Hot slices of aluminum were everywhere.
 

FALTER ( Adam Charles ):

You, my friend are nothing more then a parrot. You could never go point to point with anyone and likely that is why you are being ignored here. After you get out of your mother's basement and Alex Jones' dick out of your mouth, you may start to think. I saw the illuminati bullshit on your page. Admit it, you believe in shape-shifting space lizards don't you?

Here is a couple videos for you:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1TpldASxHH0


Enjoy sweetie!!
 

FALTER ( Adam Charles ):

Well doll, I will give you the pleasure of going point-to-point w/me. How that? I won’t just take your blanket, download of disinfo, but you can include as part of your point-to-point if you like.

Lets start w/the pentagon.

What happen there if not a plane?

The video I posted was based on the evidence provided at the scene, not just witness account. The company that produced it also does many recreations that are used in a court of law. FALTER (Adam Charles), just so you know even troother sites have now back off of the missile theory and are now endorsing that a plane hit the pentagon. I look forward to your evidence.
.
 

You are asking questions.

Please just tell me what caused the damages and provide the evidence. I dont have to prove anything. You are making the points, this is your stage. Tell the world.

What caused the damage to the pentagon?
 

Read the comment section of this page.
I hate to admit, but you are a lost cause, and I know when I’m spinning my wheels.
So you win.
 

Have you ever heard of "editing" or a director's cut. Have you ever seen those guys who stand in front of movie theatres offering free tickets to check out a free movie?? They are getting audience feedback, to find out what needs to be cut and recut, exactly the same thing the LC camp is doing (instead of renting out the theatre, they're using the internet). On top of that, there's more information out now about the terrorists attacks then when LC was first released.
 

how would Mark remove HTML?  i presume he doesn't know the login.

once again (heh), ME != MarkyX.  no, really.

 

Ok......Screw must change the HTML comment capabilities on the Account settings for the blog.
 

heh, that's better. i went ahead and did it.
though it will kinda bite not being able to AT LEAST make hyperlinks... i suppose it will make other stuff okay.
 

you can always type out hyperlinks the long way....and besides, it's better than having some retard post photoshopped pictures after every sentence
 

I guess nobody has any "relevant, specific points of contention," and they are certainly unable to back themselves up with facts or evidence....
 

correct.
then again, this is the "general" thread, unlike the "debate specific points on SLC" thread where NOONE posted except that one guy who got all mad when i called him out on being blatantly off-topic...
 

Illuminati cant differentiate facts from fiction anyways. He is WAY to out their to even try to debate about the truth. He believes stuff in his profile like people can time travel, find ways to go through different dimension into a meeting with god, close your eyes and be one with time and space. Stuff with no proof what so ever, but yet he can't believe radical islamics who have been killing American's for over 30-40 years can fly planes into buildings to kill people.....
 

Wheres Illuminati at, im ready to take him on.
 

SLC sucked. yea, LC had faults & was descredited with some facts, we get it. But, maybe it's just me, call me crazy, but how many times has the media and the gov/officials in charge been discredited?? How many times have they got their facts wrong...?? How many times did they lie or say, opps, we were wrong about the highjackers, opps, we were wrong about the weapons of mass destrruction. opps, opps, opps. But we're the US Government, we can fuck up as many times as we want, and the american people will still follow us, and believe what ever we tell them

Yea, that's the spirit. But as soon as LC has a couple faults, every average brainwashed american finds a sigh of relief and makes a HUGE deal about their "lies" as if the opposing side was pure, and so innocent....

neither side is perfect, neither side is 100% correct. But the bottom line, is that these anti-CT need to STOP with the credibility shit. You guys should be right under hypocrite in the fucking dictionary. Fuckig ridiculous.
 

"That doesn't mean however that the Conspiracy theories are as credible as the official accounts. Considering that not a single structural engineer agrees with the 'Controlled Demolitions' hypothesis posted by LC and other CTists for example, we can't claim that this is a 50/50 situation between the official version and the conspiracy theories."

You can't prove a negative. There has been several reports that show the official report may have errored. Recently (within the last few weeks as of 9/21/06) CNN aired a report with the head of the FBI stating they may not have the right names of the hijackers and they may have mixed up their identities. Months after 9/11/01, they seemed pretty certain and was used as the reason for bombing and going into Afghanistan.
CNN did another report about how the official timeline of the hijackings and plane crashes are different depending on which branch of the government you ask.
There's a reason why a large number of Americans don't believe the official story
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14727720/
...there's too many holes in it. CT-ist have added a counter story that makes the US government look responsible for 9/11/01. The CTist have had some excellent points and I think these ideas should be considered while doing the investigation. It's just bad investigating to say "that ideas too insane, that cant' be it, the government would never lie to us or do anything evil"
 

you're right, I don't think everyone believes EVERYTHING the gov tells us, but when it comes to the 911 shit, I mean come on. I have to say, the biggest thing that they have against CT is the CDem/buldings falling.

I'll be honest, I'm not educated enough to argue with the type of guys on here who rant on about the scientific part of the buildings.. And obviously there's a lot of fallacys on BOTH sides, but the anti-CT always rant on and on about how false LC is. When really, the official story is filled, filled with fallacys. After I frist saw LC, I did a lot of research... The biggest ting for me, was all the articles they had. Now we all know about all the articles they showed in the backround when talking about them... well there were several BIG ones that when I found them online, they stated that due to false information they were taken down. off the top of my head, the article of the mayor from some airport who stated that one of the airplanes that supposivly crashed, landed in their airport. After LC came out, the article wasn't there anymore. They took it down. Ok, whatever, they messed up... big time. But there were others that when you went to the site they were taken down! But before LC was made public, dylan and them got to the articles! There were there.. Now they;re "false".

or the bioterror drill planned for sep. 12, 2001 by FEMA. Tom kenney had basically stated they arrived monday night - which would be the night before 9/11.. when word got out... FEMA made a big deal saying he was tired and got his days messed up.. okay.. even so, why make a big deal then saying you weren't there before 9/11??? Then Rudy guiliani speech that was omitted from the 9/11 commision?? he also stated that FEMA was set up BEFORE 9/11 on peir 92, then the commission takes it out??? WHY??!!!


I mean it's just so many small things like that, that add up and you all say, oh, no big deal. it's just a coincidence. If that helps you to sleep at night, keep telling yourself that. I believe, that at the least, that many people knew about it. And they benefited greatly from it.
 

you're right, I don't think everyone believes EVERYTHING the gov tells us, but when it comes to the 911 shit, I mean come on. I have to say, the biggest thing that they have against CT is the CDem/buldings falling.

I'll be honest, I'm not educated enough to argue with the type of guys on here who rant on about the scientific part of the buildings.. And obviously there's a lot of fallacys on BOTH sides, but the anti-CT always rant on and on about how false LC is. When really, the official story is filled, filled with fallacys. After I frist saw LC, I did a lot of research... The biggest ting for me, was all the articles they had. Now we all know about all the articles they showed in the backround when talking about them... well there were several BIG ones that when I found them online, they stated that due to false information they were taken down. off the top of my head, the article of the mayor from some airport who stated that one of the airplanes that supposivly crashed, landed in their airport. After LC came out, the article wasn't there anymore. They took it down. Ok, whatever, they messed up... big time. But there were others that when you went to the site they were taken down! But before LC was made public, dylan and them got to the articles! There were there.. Now they;re "false".

or the bioterror drill planned for sep. 12, 2001 by FEMA. Tom kenney had basically stated they arrived monday night - which would be the night before 9/11.. when word got out... FEMA made a big deal saying he was tired and got his days messed up.. okay.. even so, why make a big deal then saying you weren't there before 9/11??? Then Rudy guiliani speech that was omitted from the 9/11 commision?? he also stated that FEMA was set up BEFORE 9/11 on peir 92, then the commission takes it out??? WHY??!!!


I mean it's just so many small things like that, that add up and you all say, oh, no big deal. it's just a coincidence. If that helps you to sleep at night, keep telling yourself that. I believe, that at the least, that many people knew about it. And they benefited greatly from it.
 

§enorita♥ ßartolome wrote:
I'm not educated enough to argue with the type of guys on here


That's where you should have stopped doll. The rest of what you wrote was a load of shit.
 

Damn emil you're the man, show that boston redsuxs fan whats up. And she calls others and I brainwashed....lol...to funny.

Btw im about watch that video now, great video find. Before i even open it up im sure Popular mechanics is going to DESTROY the morons from Loose change. Ya know Loose change, the idiots who dont have the proper education to back anything they claim with facts, the people illuminati supports. About to hit play now...
 

HAHAH oh man i just watched all 4 parts of losers vs popular mechanics. The white boy just gives the same assumptions as his crappy video shows us. The darker one, sounds like he is talking to his daddy who just punished him. They both when confronted about the facts in a certain situation, dart away from talking about it! They jump to another period of time, or some random quote someone said, without even address the facts, their minds are jumping around!

Popular mechanics owned those losers. The loose change people sound so fake when they are freaking out saying "oh no you are lying, you are liars" sounds like he is a horrible actor!!!

This just shows how the conspiracy theorists really are, they dont like to discuss facts, rather just argue about pointless bits and peices in a stuck up, fake, fabricated manor!

Wow those guys are such a joke, Popular mechanics was much more professional, stayed on topic, and didnt sound like actors.

Great video's emil.

(p.s. im pretty drunk right about now, to lazy to spell check! If its wrong, i dont care right now!)
 

Tru dat brotha, tru dat....AND about the baseball thing. Any team with the word "Sox" in the title deserves to suck ass.

But back to the main subject, yes, the PM guys pwnd the Losers. I really liked the first three parts, although I didn't make it to part four. It was amazing how different the two sides presented themselves. On the one hand, you had the Losers, who basically just said that the PM guys were lying and laughed and shook their heads and shit like that, and on the other side you had a couple of editors just telling it like it is. I would expect a semi-formal debate like that to be more civilized, but I guess the Losers have no more credibility than any of the CTs here. It just goes to show that making up facts always comes back to make you take it up the ass in the end.
 

"I'll be honest, I'm not educated enough to argue with the type of guys on here who rant on about the scientific part of the buildings.."

Niether were the kids who made the LC video. Didnt keep them from babeling on about the melting point of steel despite actual experts, structural engenieers UNIVERSALLY disgaree with their position.

CTers lie or misrepresent fact in their videos. They take mistakes or accounts told in the chaos immediatly after the events when everyone was confused and they run with that. Of course people heard explosions. Two fucking ariliners crahsed into the worlds twin office buildings. Jet fuel and millions of electrical appliances and combustable materials ignited.

"Hijackers still alive". That horseshit was debunked a few years ago by the BBC, the very guys who reported this in the first place. It was as simple as arabs in the middle east with the exact same name (like a Bob Smith here) and a photo mix up. The BBC apologized profusely. This was debunked in 2002 or 03 yet it never fails that some stumblefuck 911 denier brings that shit up.

911 CTers are like creationists. They start with their conclusion, "governmentdidit" like creationist do (their conclusion is godidit) and then they collect evidence selectively and attempt to build a case around what is their rallying cry, their universal given, their cult's dogma. GOVERNMENTDIDIT!!!!

Those guys are fucking douche sticks making absolutely asses out of themselves. Those kids are jokes.
 

Same thing we have all been saying all along...they are dipshits to be sure.
 

Yeah lee Roy, illuminati i believe linked that fake story a few months ago to try and prove a point. About a 9/11 hi-jacker still alive, when it was a false story. Fuckin nutcase he is, how can anyone be as crazy as illuminati, like whats the deal with that guy?
 

I don't believe I did, fucking DUMBO you are who doesn't even "Read to many books", lol
 

Dave - "Yeah lee Roy, illuminati i believe linked that fake story a few months ago to try and prove a point. About a 9/11 hi-jacker still alive, when it was a false story. Fuckin nutcase he is, how can anyone be as crazy as illuminati, like whats the deal with that guy?"

Illuminati (aka Cock toucher) - "I don't believe I did, fucking DUMBO you are who doesn't even "Read to many books", lol"

Oh, yeah, you dont believe you did eh small brain? Guess the books you read dont help you from still being a dumbass. Below were links you posted as comments, oh and look what we got down there. Linking the bogus story about "9/11 hi-jackers still alive". What do you know pee brain you said it!

Illuminati's Post exactly (Known now as C.T. Cock Toucher)
Sep 1, 2006 8:26 AM
. World Trade Centers



1. Fire Engineering Calls investigation a half-baked farce

2. Illegal Steel Removal

3. No steel building in history has collapsed from fire

4. Hijackers didn't cause collapse

5. Hijackers alive!?!?
 

The official version of events on 9/11 are as follows:
Terrorists hijacked four commercial jets, two of which crashed into the twin towers, which set them on fire. The fire then weakened the steel supporting the building and it collapsed onto itself, in a "pancake collapse".

Les Robertson and Frank DeMartini have said in the past that the twin towers could with stand the impact of a 707, thanks to the steel beems on the outside of the building. If a plane had hit, without setting anything one fire, the building's load would have been dispersed equally over other supporting beams, and the towers wouldn't collapse.

But you can ask anyone, anyone at all, and they'll tell you it wasn't the planes that brought them down, but instead the blazing fires caused by the crash.

So how hot did the fires burn?

After the planes struck almost all of the fuel burned up after leaving the building, or within 10 minutes, leaving a few small fires near the impact. But the untreated fires began to spread throughout the building. Most flammable objects at the POI were ripped to pieces, providing the fuel needed for any ensuing fire, which explains the larger fires closer to the collapse.

In 1975, the north tower caught fire and burned for three hours. During this time, the fire spread upwards from floor to floor. The only way the fire could have spread like that is if the fire from the floor below caused the air in the floor above to raise to at least 800 degrees F, causing flammable objects to catch fire. The building never showed any sign of structural failure. Your argument will be, "no plane hit the building", but we've already concluded the impact is negligable, at best. The only thing the impact did, is blow away all of the fire proofing at the POI. Structurally, the building was sound.

You can bend and move steel, with the right tools of course, when the color is a cherry red to bright orange. To reach those colors, temperatures would have to be 1400F to 1800F. Did the fires in those buildings burn that hot? Another thing often looked over is, steel is conductive to heat, much more than most objects. So you can't just heat one spot to 1400F, because the heat will spread to cooler parts of the steel, you have to heat the whole thing, or the bulk, to 1400F. Did the fire burn long enough to do that?

That's it for now.
I also want to note that Avery ad Korey, and the other guy are all the biggest douche bags. No offense to anyone here, but I've never met a likable New Yorker. Loose Change is a kick in the balls to the victims and their families, and it should never be played in the public (Including on the History Channel, if anyone watched it). I appreciate and respect the heroes that day, including the victims, and I pray for them. It's FEMA, and the FDA, and the American government that I hate, the ones that put other's lives at risk on 9/11 and the following months. May God have mercy on their souls.

And Kudos.
 

"Les Robertson and Frank DeMartini have said in the past that the twin towers could with stand the impact of a 707, thanks to the steel beems on the outside of the building. If a plane had hit, without setting anything one fire, the building's load would have been dispersed equally over other supporting beams, and the towers wouldn't collapse."

Congratulations on failing to attribute any credibility to your sources whatsoever.

Oh yeah, well George Washington and Martin Luther King Jr. say you're wrong, so there.

lawlz


"In 1975, the north tower caught fire and burned for three hours."

In 1975 did the north tower have boeings crash into them? You talk as if a commercial jet liner would somehow not cause a great fire, haha.

"You can bend and move steel, with the right tools of course,"

You don't need special tools to cause a fire hot enough to bend steel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
"A majority of structural engineers do not support the controlled demolition hypothesis and U.S. officials insist that only al-Qaeda was involved in the attacks."

There are no, real engineers who give any credit to a 9/11 controlled demolition theory. I think that says something
 

"Les Robertson and Frank DeMartini have said in the past that the twin towers could with stand the impact of a 707, thanks to the steel beems on the outside of the building. If a plane had hit, without setting anything one fire, the building's load would have been dispersed equally over other supporting beams, and the towers wouldn't collapse."

Congratulations on failing to attribute any credibility to your sources whatsoever.

Oh yeah, well George Washington and Martin Luther King Jr. say you're wrong, so there.

lawlz


"In 1975, the north tower caught fire and burned for three hours."

In 1975 did the north tower have boeings crash into them? You talk as if a commercial jet liner would somehow not cause a great fire, haha.

"You can bend and move steel, with the right tools of course,"

You don't need special tools to cause a fire hot enough to bend steel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
"A majority of structural engineers do not support the controlled demolition hypothesis and U.S. officials insist that only al-Qaeda was involved in the attacks."

There are no, real engineers who give any credit to a 9/11 controlled demolition theory. I think that says something
 

Emil they don't know jack shit. Here's a fact that these Cock Teases might find interesting - on 9/11, none of the engineers at my dad's architecture firm could believe that the towers stood as long as they did. BUt what do they know about buildings, anyway? They just design buildings for a living. Not like that gives you any kind of qualifications to make an assessment like that. Of course Dylan Avery and his high school diploma (I am assuming he didn't drop out, although I may be mistaken) is more of an expert on the subject than any engineer ever could be....
 

No, it wasn't interesting, and probably bull shit. However, I do find the engineers comments in this video interesting, but what do they know eh, they just designed the WTC - http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7143212690219513043&q=9%2F11+Mysteries
 

You wanna talk about engineers? lol, okay.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_1253.shtml
But what are the facts? The Pentagon is a five-story, five-sided building complex comprised of five concentric rings, running from an interior Ring A to an exterior Ring E. The photo and video evidence support the conclusions of the 2003 Pentagon Building Performance Report produced by the American Society of Civil Engineers that American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior fa?ade at the ground floor, creating a hole in Ring E approximately 90 feet wide. That's 90 feet ? not 16 feet.

A multitude of eyewitnesses saw the 757 swooping down toward the Pentagon, and many actually saw it hit. Dennis Behreandt, in his August 23, 2004 article for The New American, quoted some of these witnesses, so we won't repeat them here. However, an important expert witness whom we will mention in this regard is Allyn Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers, who arrived at the scene shortly after the blast. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building," he says. "I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them."



Please explain how a missle hit this light post without exploding.

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3565168
 

Dave - "Yeah lee Roy, illuminati i believe linked that fake story a few months ago to try and prove a point. About a 9/11 hi-jacker still alive, when it was a false story. Fuckin nutcase he is, how can anyone be as crazy as illuminati, like whats the deal with that guy?"

Illuminati (aka Cock toucher) - "I don't believe I did, fucking DUMBO you are who doesn't even "Read to many books", lol"

Oh, yeah, you dont believe you did eh small brain? Guess the books you read dont help you from still being a dumbass. Below were links you posted as comments, oh and look what we got down there. Linking the bogus story about "9/11 hi-jackers still alive". What do you know pee brain you said it!

Illuminati's Post exactly (Known now as C.T. Cock Toucher)
Sep 1, 2006 8:26 AM
. World Trade Centers



1. Fire Engineering Calls investigation a half-baked farce

2. Illegal Steel Removal

3. No steel building in history has collapsed from fire

4. Hijackers didn't cause collapse

5. Hijackers alive!?!?
 

DUMBO-DAVID - Illuminati (aka Cock toucher)

Of coarse im a cock toucher, how else am I supposed to pee :)

DUMBO-DAVID - Guess the books you read dont help you from still being a dumbass.

You're the one who states on his profile he doesn't read them.

DUMBO-DAVID - What do you know pee brain you said it!

Unfortunately DUMBO, those are links, posted to information, not statements of belief. And you say we take things out of context.
 

Lost in much of the banter is good old "occams razor". If the government was going to pull of a conspiracy, why make it so complicated? Why insist on an explanation that is "scientifically impossible".

With regards to building 7, we are to believe that the government planned for the debris from 1 and 2 to damage 7, cause massive enough fires and holes in the structure to trick everyone into thinking it wsas going to fall, and while thier perfect ruse was in effect and it looked as thought the building sustained massive damage, they demolished it with explosives that no workers managed to realize were there.
 

must not have been a very good conspiracy...very messy. typical government work....
 

Yeah stuff like sending a bomb to blow up your own marines on the USS Cole doesnt send the message, blowing up your own U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, killing 200 plus people didnt send the message. THe government definately was tired of blowing up their own people in a simple fasion, thats why they came up with some CRAZY idea, with multiple planes, crashing into a place of very important for the US economy, and crashing into their own building the pentagon.

Definately not i see, the government was bored of killing its own people with just bombs, they needed to jazz it up a little, create more disasters so they can sit back and laugh at all the people they murdered. Instead of just a few marines, no fun in that am i right?
 

Definately now* i see (didnt proof read, no comfirmation on blogs damnit)
 

Point-by-point rebuttal of Loose Change and all of it's components
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change

3D model of pentagon crash, complete with REAL pictures of the downedlight posts. (Note: they were knocked TOWARDS the pentagon, not away from it, as if from a missle's explosion)
http://www.youtube.com/v/YVDdjLQkUV8

Popular Mechanics, for all of your CT debunking needs
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=1

I would also like to know EXACTLY where you found the quote of our president "admitting" a missle hit the pentagon. Remember the transcript must be from a credible site, preferably a major media outlet such as CNN, Fox, MSNBC, BBC, etc. The quote must also BE IN CONTEXT. Don't give me a quote about a missle and an explosion, and lead me to assume that he's talking about the Pentagon, when the quote you yourself provided mentioned nothing of 9/11, even if it was true.

Also, explain this quote:

"Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?""
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=6
 

TRAPJAW - 3D model of pentagon crash, complete with REAL pictures of the downedlight posts. (Note: they were knocked TOWARDS the pentagon, not away from it, as if from a missle's explosion)
http://www.youtube.com/v/YVDdjLQkUV8

Who claims they were knocked away? NOTE: They have just been hit at nearly 500mph, and they just fall over on to the road.

TRAPJAW - I would also like to know EXACTLY where you found the quote of our president "admitting" a missle hit the pentagon.

Who has claimed that's what the President has said? Or are you just being your old retarded self

TRAPJAW - Remember the transcript must be from a credible site, preferably a major media outlet such as CNN, Fox, MSNBC, BBC, etc. The quote must also BE IN CONTEXT. Don't give me a quote about a missle and an explosion, and lead me to assume that he's talking about the Pentagon, when the quote you yourself provided mentioned nothing of 9/11, even if it was true.

The qoute I provided had nothing to do the Pentagon, any point here, or just being your old childish self.

TRAPJAW - Also, explain this quote:

"Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?""
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=6

Explain why they won't release what's on the black-box.
 

TRAPJAW - 3D model of pentagon crash, complete with REAL pictures of the downedlight posts. (Note: they were knocked TOWARDS the pentagon, not away from it, as if from a missle's explosion)
http://www.youtube.com/v/YVDdjLQkUV8

"Who claims they were knocked away? NOTE: They have just been hit at nearly 500mph, and they just fall over on to the road."

YOU DID. You wannt me to bring up your quote? You impled the explosion from the missle would have knocked the lamp post away. Problem is, the post is knocked TOWARDS the pentagon, and isn't anywhere near the area of the impact itself.

Oh, and what hit them at 500mph? If you're going to tell me that a missle is going to knock over nearly 5 lamp posts (keep in mind they weren't alinged in a straight line), then I'm going to laugh at you.

"Who has claimed that's what the President has said? Or are you just being your old retarded self"

You did.

"Have you not listened to the audio of his speech, and how do you take - "instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a high -- a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping." out of context?! If no explosives were used in the towers, then why would anyone have to ensure they went of at all?!"

Wow, your stupidity is amazing. You claimed the president admitted a missle hit the pentagon. this is simply false.


"The qoute I provided had nothing to do the Pentagon, any point here, or just being your old childish self."

I know that, the quote was meant to get me to ASSUME the president was admitting controlled demolition was used on 9/11. I'm beign childish? HA!! That's a laugh. I guess mud-slinging is your only resort, when you can't even prove a single thing you claim.

"Explain why they won't release what's on the black-box."

My opinion? They didn't want the videos to hurt those who survived the victims of Flight 77. But that's nothing I have to prove. You haven't disproven the quote which I obtained.

Also, explain to me where the victims of Flight 77 are if a missle really hit the pentagon. Well...?
 

TRAPJAW - YOU DID. You wannt me to bring up your quote?

I would love you to!

TRAPJAW - You impled the explosion from the missle would have knocked the lamp post away. Problem is, the post is knocked TOWARDS the pentagon, and isn't anywhere near the area of the impact itself.

Well we'll see when you bring up the quote eh.

TRAPJAW - Oh, and what hit them at 500mph? If you're going to tell me that a missle is going to knock over nearly 5 lamp posts (keep in mind they weren't alinged in a straight line), then I'm going to laugh at you.

Well as I have said all along, something had to have carried it close to the building, which is what will have knocked them over.

TRAPJAW - You did.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, really???? Lets see.................

TRAPJAW - September 30, 2006 at 12:39 AM - "I would also like to know EXACTLY where you found the quote of our president "admitting" a missle hit the pentagon."

I would love to see a quote of me saying that as well please??!! But I won't hold my breath.

TRAPJAW - Wow, your stupidity is amazing. You claimed the president admitted a missle hit the pentagon. this is simply false.

???WHERE??? You are the stupid one, but your still a child, who can blame you.

TRAPJAW - I know that, the quote was meant to get me to ASSUME the president was admitting controlled demolition was used on 9/11. I'm beign childish? HA!! That's a laugh. I guess mud-slinging is your only resort, when you can't even prove a single thing you claim.

But what I claim and what you assume I claim are two different things.

TRAPJAW - My opinion? They didn't want the videos to hurt those who survived the victims of Flight 77. But that's nothing I have to prove. You haven't disproven the quote which I obtained.

You didn't ask me to disprove it, you asked me to explain it, and when did black-boxes start recording videos. What certain families are asking for is a transcript of what was on it, and if releasing one video showing a 757 hitting the Pentagon will shut those of us up, who are apparently dishonouring the dead, then why not release one. If I get arrested for a crime, but can prove with cctv footage I was somewhere else, then would be stupid not to wouldn't I.

TRAPJAW - Also, explain to me where the victims of Flight 77 are if a missle really hit the pentagon. Well...?

Would love to be able to tell you, but I can't, probably dead, but didn't die at the Pentagon.
 

CRAKA JACK - WHEN THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND STOP SAYING CRAP THAT MAKES NO SENSE AND ACTUALLY LISTEN TO WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU?!?!?!?!

What are YOU trying to tell me, nothing so far, but lets see.........
CRAKA JACK - You are trying to tell me that every one on board Flight 77 "Probably Died", but not from the crash?

Nope, nothing here. Not the crash at the Pentagon no.

CRAKA JACK - That every one on that flight has since died from unrelated causes (All 150 of them),

How many?! LOL!!! You kids do crack me up.

CRAKA JACK - and That they couldn't have possibly died at the same time from that plane crash?

They had to be in that plane crash to have died in the first place, all 150 of them (LOL) Thought we're trying to tell me something here

CRAKA JACK - How about actually looking up the "Alledged" victims profile's, and tell me they didnt die from that crash. God, I'm 14 freakin years old and I'm smarter at this then you are.

14 years old, profile says 16, and thinks there were 150 passengers on flight 77, sound pretty dumb to me kidda!
 

CRAKA JACK - Well, there's nothing obvious that I need to point out to you that hasn't already been said. BUT THEY ALL DIED AT THE PENTAGON ON 9/11 AS A RESULT OF THEIR AIRPLANE CRASHING INTO THE BUILDING.

Arn't you the guy who claimed there were 150 on the plane

CRAKA JACK - Yeah you are right about this, I was way off. I was thinking of how many people died at the pentagon that day in total, not just from the crash (but even then, i would have been off by about 34 fatalities.) Okay, so the total . of people that died from the plane crash is actually about 64.

No good at maths either I see :)

CRAKA JACK - I sometimes stumble through words without proofreading them, sorry again. But anyway, (ignoring the . of fatalities comment you joked about), do you really think it's possible for them to have all died in the last 5 years from unrelated causes, but not at the Pentagon?

Sorry, where did I joke about people dying on that day?! And no, they all died on 911, where have you got that every passenger died over 5 years?

CRAKA JACK - I am NOT DUMB, because I actually accept what happened on 9/11 as fact. Listen, at what point do you stop careing about the victims that at the beggining of LC, you guys said were dedicating the video to?

I didn't make the video, so I didn't dedicate it, and accepting what you're told, doesn't make you smart.

CRAKA JACK - In fact, did you guys ever care about the victim's or their families. Because if you did, then maybe you would attempt to come in contact with even ONE of the people who survive the victims.

Why do "you guys" always play the emotion card?! You do know that their are relatives of some of the victims asking the same questions as "us guys", probably not if you have accepted the official story, but what about showing them respect eh?!

CRAKA JACK - Better yet, how about interviewing Tom Burnett(from Flight 93)'s Mom, and try to convince her that her son's plane actually landed in Ohio like LC says it did, and didn't crash into Pennsylvania, which is what EVERYONE else accepts as fact?

So because "EVERYONE else accepts as fact" doesn't mean we all do.

CRAKA JACK - Because I'm sure she would be happy to find out what "really" happened on 9/11 to her son. Find me A SINGLE MEMBER OF THE VICTIM'S FAMILIES THAT ACTUALLY BELIEVES ALL THE BS THAT YOU CLAIM TO BE TRUE ABOUT 9/11.

Nope, didn't think you had heard about them, but here you are little boy..............................................................

Joanne Barbara, wife of FDNY Asst. Chief of Dept. Gerard Barbara
Gayle Barker, sister of William A. Karnes, WTC
Michele Bergsohn, wife of Alvin Bergsohn, Cantor Fitzgerald
Derrill Bodley, father of Deora Bodley, passenger on Flight 93
Kathryn C. Bowden, sister of Thomas H. Bowden, Jr. WTC1, 104th floor
Janet Calia, wife of Dominick Calia, Cantor Fitzgerald, WTC1
Maggie Cashman, wife of William Joseph Cashman, United Flight 93
Lynne Castrianno Galante, sister of Leonard Castrianno, 1WTC, 105th floor
Elza Chapa-McGowan, daughter of Rosemary Chapa, Pentagon
Bruce De Cell, father-in-law of Mark Petrocelli North Tower, 92nd floor
Ralph D'Esposito, father of Michael D'Esposito, WTC, 96th floor
Loisanne Diehl, Surviving Spouse, Michael D. Diehl, WTC2, 90th floor
Adina D. Eisenberg, sister of Eric Eisenberg, WTC
Jonathan M. Fisher, son of Dr. Gerald Paul "Geep" Fisher, Pentagon
Michael J. Fox, brother of Jeffrey L. Fox, Tower 2, 89th floor
Laurel A. Gay, sister of Peter A. Gay, AA Flight 11
Irene Golinsky, wife of Col. Ronald F. Golinski USA RET, Pentagon
Lori, Jerry, and Beatrice Guadagno, sister and parents of Richard Guadagno, Flight 93
Kristen Hall, daughter of fallen firefighter Thomas Kuveikis 9/11
Kurt D. Horning, father of Matthew D. Horning, WTC Tower One, 95th floor
Jennifer W. Hunt, wife of William C. Hunt, Euro Brokers
John Keating, son of Barbara Keating, passenger on AA Flight 11
L. Russell Keene II, father of Russ Keene III, WTC2, 89th floor, KBW
Peter Kousoulis, sister died in WTC
Paul & Barbara Kirwin, parents of Glenn Davis Kirwin, Cantor Fitzgerald 105th floor
Barbara Krukowski-Rastelli, mother of William E. Krukowski, NYC firefighter
Laura and Ira Lassman, parents of Nicholas C. Lassman, died in WTC, Tower One
Johnny Lee, husband of Lorraine Greene
Alicia LeGuillow, mother of Nestor A. Cintron III
Francine Levine, sister of Adam K. Ruhalter, who died on 9/11
Bob McIlvaine, father of Robert McIlvaine, WTC, Merrill Lynch
Mary McWilliams, mother of FF Martin E. McWilliams- Engine 22
Daryl J. Meehan, brother of Colleen Ann Barkow, WTC 1, 105th floor
Elvira P. Murphy, wife of Patrick Murphy, WTC 1
Natalee Pecorelli, sister of Thomas Pecorelli of Flight 11
James L Perry, M.D and Patricia J. Perry, parents of John W. Perry, Esq., NYPD Officer 9/11
David Potorti, brother of James Potorti, North Tower, WTC, Marsh & McLennan
Terry Kay Rockefeller, sister of Laura Rockefeller, North Tower, WTC
Grissel Rodriguez-Valentin, wife of Benito Valentin, WTC1, 94th floor
Alissa Rosenberg-Torres, widow of Luis Eduardo Torres, post-9/11 mother, writer
Elaine Saber, mother of Scott Saber
Julie Scarpitta, mother of Michelle Scarpitta, WTC Building 2, 84th floor
Paula Shapiro, mother of Eric Eisenberg, WTC2
Elizabeth Turner, wife of Simon Turner, lost on 11th September 2001
Adele Welty, mother of Firefighter Timothy Welty, FDNY, Squad 288
Joan W. Winton, mother of David Winton, WTC, South Tower, 89th floor
David Yancey, husband of Vicki Yancey, American Airlines Flight 77
Nissa Youngren, daughter of Robert G. LeBlanc, flight 175

That enough for you?

CRAKA JACK - Not ONE of them actually believes what Loose Change is saying, and seeing there are about 3,000 9/11 victims, that's a pretty significant number.

Obviously not true eh, as there's a list of family members who believe in Government involvement.

Here's a video also, not long, but is a family member also questioning.
 

I have a video up on one of my blogs called "Press for Truth." The whole reason an investigation into 9/11 was even done is because the families of victims called on Congress to make it happen. The final result is called the "9/11 Comission Report." It can be purchased in any bookstore.

I think the main issue here with people who refuse to acknowlege government involvement in 9/11 is they never believed it could be possible in the first place. They heard about these conspiracy theories, knew they couldn't be true, but wanted to watch Loose Change for themselves to make sure they were right. They watched Loose Change with a pre-existing bias, and made every small-minded effort they could to prove their point. I notice this with some people I know. They have their political oppinions already in place, which makes it difficult for them to learn anything.
 

JACKIE - Yes, and I already pointed out my mistake long ago and apologized for it, moron. And aren't you the guy that can't even spell 'aren't' right?

I guess I am, thanks for pointing that out, here's a few things you can't spell right :)

JACKIE'S MIS SPELLINGS - "careing", "beggining", "sometihng", "Alledged". I shouldn't make fun, as you're probably still learning how to, :) and totally
irrelevant.

JACKIE - What ARE you smoking. I did all the math right. 184 people died at the Pentagon in total that day (150 was what i thought was around the number of fatalities, + 34 fatalities which I said i miscalculated by = 184 fatalities.) And the number of people that died on the airplane is 64. So, were again did I show I was "No good at maths either"?

150 - 64 = 86

JACKIE - When you said "They had to be in that plane crash to have died in the first place, all 150 of them (LOL)", I naturally assumed you were joking.

I was, at you :)

JACKIE - I would expect that when someone puts LOL in their topic, it would be a joke about sometihng.

Yes, you :)

JACKIE - That, or laughing at their expense.

Yes, yours :)

JACKIE - And, wait, you're telling me that all the people on board that plane died on 9/11, but not at the Pentagon? Okay then, what happened to their plane on 9/11 if it didn't crash into the Pentagon?

We might know if we got to actually see what hit the Pentagon :)


JACKIE - Well, if believing the story told to me that is actually backed up with factual evidence doesn't make me smart, does agreeing with some Conspiracy Theory filled with inaccuracies then make me smarter?

Well how would you know, if you have accepted what you've been told already, you won't have looked at any information to suggest other than the official story.


JACKIE - I meant that I am smart in the sense that I agree with the story about 9/11 that at this point seems to be the correct one.

"At this point", "seems to be", hmmmm, doesn't sound like the words of a convinced person :)

JACKIE - 'Emotion Card'? Sorry if I may show too much sympathy for the people who's relatives were killed on one of the blackest days in American history.

Showing sympathy is one thing, but "In fact, did you guys ever care about the victim's or their families. Because if you did, then maybe you would attempt to come in contact with even ONE of the people who survive the victims." is trying to make out like we don't care about the loss of life on that day.

JACKIE - And yes, I am fully aware that there are relatives of some of the victim's asking the same questions that "you guys" do. But unlike conspiracy theorist's, they don't make some bogus claim that they know what really happened on 9/11.

Er, - CRAKA JACK - October 04 - 2:10 PM - "Not ONE of them actually believes what Loose Change is saying, and seeing there are about 3,000 9/11 victims"
So why are the asking questions if they don't believe Government involvement?

JACKIE - And showing them respect? I have all the respect in the world for their feelings, and everyone else's. Apparently though by your standards, I don't have respect for them.

I didn't say you didn't, I asked "what about showing them some", meaning they too lost family, don't they deserve to be treated with the same respect for those that don't believe in Government involvement.

JACKIE - Can you show me some evidence that backs up the claim that Flight 93 landed in Ohio, instead of crashing in Pennsylvania? Because I'm willing to listen.

Yet another set of allegations have arisen about the "real story" of the 9/11 attacks. This time internet journalist Greg Szymanski is claiming that Flight 93, which was supposed to have crashed in southern Pennsylvania, actually landed in Cleveland, Ohio. And as a source for this, he cites no less an authority than the man who was then Mayor of Cleveland, Michael R. White.

He refers to a Cincinnati tv station, WCPO Channel 9, as reporting on that very morning the landing of Flight 93 at Cleveland International Airport; Mayor White was at the time the source of the statement that, "a Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing due to a bomb threat" and that the airplane, having landed safely, was moved to a secure location and evacuated.

The report allegedly then went on to say United Airlines verified the plane as Flight 93. Also included in the little known news report, says Szymanski, was a comment from United CEO, James Goodwin: "The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved. United Airlines is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights." The reporter now has been unable to reach either White, United or WCPO, to gain corroboration, and notes that although the report was once displayed on the WCPO website, it was removed "in June 2004 in and around the time of the 9/11 Commission hearings." - http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=2047

Is supportive of that theory, or it was shot down................

On the Sept. 16, 2001, edition of NBC's "Meet the Press," Vice President Dick Cheney, while not addressing Flight 93 specifically, spoke clearly to the administration's clear policy regarding shooting down hijacked jets.
Vice President Cheney: "Well, the -- I suppose the toughest decision was this question of whether or not we would intercept incoming commercial aircraft."
NBC's Tim Russert: "And you decided?"
Cheney: "We decided to do it. We'd, in effect, put a flying combat air patrol up over the city; F-16s with an AWACS, which is an airborne radar system, and tanker support so they could stay up a long time...
"It doesn't do any good to put up a combat air patrol if you don't give them instructions to act, if, in fact, they feel it's appropriate."
Russert: "So if the United States government became aware that a hijacked commercial airline[r] was destined for the White House or the Capitol, we would take the plane down?"
Cheney: "Yes. The president made the decision ... that if the plane would not divert ... as a last resort, our pilots were authorized to take them out. Now, people say, you know, that's a horrendous decision to make. Well, it is. You've got an airplane full of American citizens, civilians, captured by ... terrorists, headed and are you going to, in fact, shoot it down, obviously, and kill all those Americans on board?
"... It's a presidential-level decision, and the president made, I think, exactly the right call in this case, to say, I wished we'd had combat air patrol up over New York.'" - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30682

And have a read of this - http://letsroll911.org/phpwebsite/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=view&ANN_id=34

JACKIE - Show me were you found statements by them, showing them saying they believe what Loose Change says, because if they do feel that way, then I have no desire to argue with the family members about what happened. I will be very happy if you can back up that list.

More making a statement, other than actual written statements - http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041026093059633

JACKIE - Well, there are A LOT (probably more then does who don't) of Family Members who believe the story generally accepted by many to be true about what happened on September 11, 2001.

Maybe, maybe not.
 

JACK - Okay, yes, because the video that the Pentagon released did have a very slow frame rate, the video does not clearly identify that a commercial airliner struck the building. But that shouldn't be neccesary, because the piles of debris, hoards of evidence, and the hundreds of eyewitness reports that say a commercial jet struck the Pentagon, is more then enough to show that a Commercial Airliner (Flight 77) flew into the Pentagon.

Hundreds? And a few pieces of aluminium doesn't prove it was a jetliner


JACK - The WCPO story was later found to be an erronious report filed by the Associated Press and was corrected. A 2006 article that appeared in the Cleveland Free Times revisits this conspiracy and proves that Flight 93 did not land at Hopkins International Airport and White never meant to imply that it had."
Story taken from...
http://www.freetimes.com/story/681
Read the words by the Glenn Research Center photo.
So, I'll take words spoken by someone actually close to Ex-Mayor White (his former press secretary) over a Conspiracy Theorist with no relation whatsoever to him, any day of the week.

Lets lets look at bit more as well eh......................................


"Nobody's going to shoot me if I take pictures of that hangar?" I ask.
Rachul laughs. "No," she says. "It'll be fine."

So you would assume that everything would be ok then..............................

"As I turn back to the van, I see the guard running toward me, hand on his gun. I slip the camera back in the satchel and show him that my hands are now empty.
"Who are you?" he demands, still 50 feet away but closing. He is an imposing fellow. Short, stocky, all muscle."

Eh, what's the problem with a guy taking pictures?

"Who gave you permission to take those pictures?"

Do you really need "permission" to take pictures of a hanger, that had nothing to do with 9/11?

""I didn't know he would get that close," she says to the guard."

Why, what may he have seen?

"Rumor Two: United 93 deboarded at NASA Glenn Research Center and its passengers were taken away in an unmarked shuttle.
Evidence For: Newspaper articles published after 9/11 suggest there were two planes, not one, that were forced to land in Cleveland. One was Delta 1989. The other is often referred to as "Flight X" but is assumed by many to be United 93."

Flight X?

"A KC-135 had to come back to the hangar," says Wessel, as if realizing for the first time that this aircraft may have caused some undue confusion. A team of scientists from the Johnson Space Center in Houston had flown to Cleveland on this KC-135 to conduct micro-gravity experiments. (Also known as "the vomit comet," KC-135's are used to simulate weightlessness.

So when did it leave, and when did it have to come back? And wouldn't somebody know for sure that it was that plane?


JACK - First off, the interview was from OVER FIVE YEARS AGO, AND ONLY 5 DAYS AFTER 9/11.

AND WHY DOES IT MATTER HOW LONG AGO HE GAVE THE INTERVIEW


JACK - Second, Cheney never actually said in the interview that they shot down the plane. Hey said some key words. "I suppose the toughest decision was this question of whether or not we would intercept incoming commercial aircraft." Okay, that means to help take control of the plane alongside it when it is in the air, 'INTERCEPT' does not mean 'SHOOT DOWN'.

So why would it be a difficult decision to make, if all your doing is helping to take control?


JACK - Hmmm... no ending quatation mark, which obviously means that he talked further on about it, and maybe said something to the effect of not being able to achieve the goal.

"Maybe", or maybe not eh?


JACK - And when he said the words "We'd, IN EFFECT," that means what they would HOPE to do in the best case scenario, and what they were planning to possibly do. Again, that doesn't show they followed through with the orders. "We decided to do it.", means that they decided to give the order to ATTEMPT to INTERCEPT the airplane.

But also had been given clearance to "take them out"


JACK - Okay, Russert said "IF the U.S Gov. became aware", so that IF could mean that if it happened again in the future, it doesn't make it clear.

"Could mean", or maybe, it could not mean that, and as they were talking about events of 9/11. Or if it does happen again, then do they already have clearance, and would not need to consult the President?


JACK - Did you not pay attention to the words "and are you going to, in fact, shoot it down, obviously, and kill all those Americans on board?". He was saying that like a person asking him the question. "ARE YOU?" That Doesn't show for any one second that he did, it asks if that would suriously consider that choice as an option in that kind of event. Did you not pay attention to the words - "Yes. The president made the decision ... that if the plane would not divert ... as a last resort, our pilots were authorized to take them out."

It has already been considered and would be an option.


JACK - The qoute shows absolutely no evidence that Cheney shot Flight 93 down, but instead that he gave the orders that, if neccesary, they would take the plane down. I think there would be a much larger reaction in the public media if our Vice President went on Meet The Press and said he shot down Flight 93.

Is he as dumb as the President - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0v0_HDwg84
 

Ok I don't claim to be the smartest person on this planet, but......

Open your fucking eyes...... Fact - We have less freedoms now
Fact - The Government has lied to us
Fact - We are arguing about who's more right instead of reacting
We don't know what the truth is, but we need to find out for the safety of this country. We put Clinton on trial for lying about a blow job. Bush killed thousand of Iraqis, spied on the American populace, and has taken our freedoms. WE HAVE DONE NOTHING!!!!!

WAKE UP AND TAKE THIS COUNTRY BACK WE ARE STARVING AS A NATION WHILE THE FEW MAKE MORE MONEY EVERY DAY START ASKING QUESTIONS TO YOUR GOVERNMENT THEY SERVE YOU NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND

We are becoming the new Roman Empire....... and Rome is burning!

GRAB A FUCKING BUCKET!