The Garth Trinidad Interview (Part 1) - The Authority On Urban Alternative Music & Culture


By Cazembe Abena

FROM LA2DAY.



Garth Trinidad. For those that know, the name says it all in the world of music and progressive worldwide urban culture. For those that don't know – listen up.

The man has been so influential in the last decade with his award-winning KCRW (89.9) broadcast music show 'Chocolate City', that in 2003 The Grammys created a category based on the format of his music program and invited him on as a voting member for the 'Best Urban Alternative Performance' category. Even the powers that be (despite their perpetual tardiness in the recognition of true urban pioneering) had to recognize. But, we already knew Garth was the shit, didn't we?

As a veteran DJ on one of the only stations in the country that breaks new artists, Garth has helped catapult such acts as Jill Scott, Van Hunt and Gnarls Barkley. In addition, The Authority On Urban Alternative Culture (newly created title by yours truly) has musically consulted for top companies such as HBO, Nike, Infiniti, and United Airlines, produced for labels such as Warner Bros. and BBE, and orchestrated countless events for charities and companies such as Toyota, and Ford.

But for all his accolades and successes The Authority On Urban Alternative Culture is a self-admitted "low-key dude". If it were up to him (and it isn't, just ask his loving wife and three kids) he would be completely content with just spinning five days a week at KCRW, having a couple of residencies at clubs, and blogging to further educate the masses with maybe a few panel appearances thrown in for good measure; all the while eschewing shameless (or any) self-promotion.

At 6'2" with a commanding presence, Garth could be an imposing figure – even boorish if he so chose – but his intellect and compassion conveys an old soul. He's a husband, father, cultural revolutionary, and one hell of a DJ who embraces the community that he holds dear with the same passion that he spins his music. Here, Garth talks about life, music, and why he can't "Play something faster".

In the second of this three-part series with Garth Trinidad, The Authority on Urban Alternative Culture drops science on the music industry, our educational system, and the definition of a 'con'.

Cazembe Abena (LA2DAY) – Has Chocolate City changed today from what you envisioned in its inception?

Garth Trinidad – It's the same, but with evolution in its context. From where I started to where I am now, what's been happening is the maturation of style. The evolution of my sound based on my discoveries, my music education, and my travels. The tagline that I created for my show was "A progressive mix of Soul, Hip-Hop, and World Rhythms" – and when you get down to it that's a really expansive phrase. So, for me the inception was having discovered KCRW, where in the early 90s it was this whole new world of music, and for me it was being introduced to a whole new world of Black music - not only from what was current, but going back and discovering various genres and various times and decades.

Cazembe – What DJs at KCRW got you to tune in?

Garth – It was a friend of mine that told me to listen to Jason Bentley's Metropolis early on. It was like one night I was at home working on some project, as you know I'm a visual artist by training, and this cat called me and said, "Yo, you got to turn on 89.9 right now! This dude is playing some crazy shit right now!" So, I turned him on and was like, "What? What's this?" You know what I mean?

Cazembe – Was it Soul? Was it House? What was it?

Garth – Well, I think Jason, in the moment that I turned him on, was playing DJ Shadow… Neneh Cherry… Roy Ayers… The Roots… etc., etc… and this is back in '93.

Cazembe – OK. It was ahead of the curve then…

Garth – And as I continued to listen and discover who this guy was and when he was on, I became a religious listener. I was introduced to Massive Attack, Portisehead… Goldie and the whole Drum & Bass movement, and then I was introduced to the whole Electronica thing because he was helping solidify it as a genre back then. He had come back from his travels as a post-graduate backpacking through Europe and discovered all this music. When I started to listen to Jason, he had been on for a couple of years with a couple shows that basically brought him to form Metropolis.

Cazembe – Where have your travels taken you?

Garth – Western Europe. A couple spots in Spain, including Barcelona, and then I spent some time in London. The funny thing was being there and checking all the records that they took from here. And then, seeing all the [US artist's] records that we couldn't get over here that had all the special remixes, extended versions, limited editions, Japanese only versions… Labels have their subsidiary labels and partners throughout the world, and each market determines what's going to be more suitable for each market. So, going over there… I was like in candy land… I got a couple of Prince joints that I couldn't find out here… This is all before it got really crazy with the online shopping so I spent most of my time collecting records. I did a lot of shopping at the local record stores like Arons, which has since closed down, but also at the Swap Meets. But, having traveled a little bit and being exposed to things that you couldn't get over here was a great experience. But, it's not like I've been to Africa yet or Brazil to discover these other things with regards to genres and specific producers and techniques and production work of other artists that people just aren't privy to in the States. However, I've of course been exposed to a little of that in those genres from friends of mine or other producers from back in the day whom I've discovered who came from these places, but that's another story… like discovering Hugh Masekela's Chisa Record label and being able to get a hold of that stuff because some of it is available here. There is a plethora of music yet to be discovered, but I have yet to go to these spots. The travel thing has been a bit minimal because as a DJ I haven't been able to sink my teeth into anywhere. When I was in France I hit a couple spots in Paris and was able to discover a few artists and producers that I had no idea existed.

Cazembe – Let's get back to some of your musical influences again. What do you remember that influenced you the most growing up?

Garth – Well, it was what my folks were listening to - and radio – which was a lot different in the 70s and even the 80s to an extent. I had crates from the parents that included everything from Jazz to Funk… James Brown of course… Pop stuff like the Bee Gees… and then I had my joints like Michael Jackson, a couple Prince joints here and there. But, my folks had stuff like Miriam Makeba, stuff like that floating around and I was like "What is this stuff?" and I'm little, so you're open to that stuff. It's just a record to you with a certain sound. I think being introduced to that from an early age really helped shape my ears. I was just a Soul lovin' dude from the get-go. And then come the 80s and it was 1580 K-Day on the AM, and that was basically bringing Hip-Hop out to the West Coast… EVERYBODY was listening to K-Day. So, taking what I already knew and putting that youthful Hip-Hop energy on it shaped my musical taste early on. When I try to describe to people what Chocolate City is I say that it's got to be one of the most exotic music programs, but it's programmed through the eyes of a child of Hip-Hop.

Cazembe – I like that. When I think of Chocolate City that explanation makes sense. You said some interesting things in a previous discussion about how the history of our music educational system has affected musicology in today's marketplace.

Garth – I wrote a blog on myspace… Anatomy of a Zombie…

Cazembe – Yes, I've seen it…

Garth - … And I took it there a little bit. What I was trying to get out was… after the rebellion of the 60s… you can call it a youth rebellion in the US really, and then you had the Black rebellion, you had the White rebellion… some of those things came together and sometimes they didn't, from the Weather Underground, to The Generals, to the Hippie Movement, to The Black Panther Party and various other things that were happening – the Nation of Islam as well… and all these young people were going to school and being educated. They were raised up in an era where public schools had art and music already in the mix. So it was natural that these kids were learning how to make art and how to make music coming up. After looking at the rebellion of the 60s, I figured that education, coupled with a fairly functional home life, coupled with art and music inspiration – even if you weren't going to be an artist or a musician – simply learning those things helps nurture thought- critical and creative.

Cazembe – Absolutely.

Garth – And a lot of that stuff contributed (for the long term) in how the young people began to see the Vietnam War, about policy in the United States foreign and domestic, about law, about all that stuff. Art and music play a huge roll in nurturing those things for the long term; in nurturing an individual who is going to look around and say, "Something ain't right" and not accept what's naturally wrong. What was going on back then was wrong, just like it's wrong today. So, with all that said, by the time Jimmy Carter was in office it began. We saw the decline of public schools as they began to use funding as an excuse to take out art and music programs. So, that's how Reagan came into effect. In the 80s it was over - forget about it. Seeing all that, going to the Burroughs, going to the Bronx, focusing in on the Bronx and what was happening with Cool Herc from the very beginning with him throwing these parties and collecting these records… you see the formation of Hip-Hop based on these break records. And the nurturing of the guys that stood on stage and rocked the crowd, who helped the DJ along who eventually became the "MC". Melle Mel, when he put the stamp on MC there was no one before him that used that term. So once the MC was in effect and the DJ was hypin' the crowd with these breaks, that translated into somebody's bedroom as a studio and they began to record things using these break records like they were doing at these parties. What the DJs figured out, what Grandmaster Flash figured out, was by going between two records it gave the MC an opportunity to breakdown and the B-Boys and B-Girls an opportunity to breakdown and battle each other because of the breaks – that translated into what we know today as beat-making. Using a loop, using a sample, using a pattern, programming drums was based on that whole premise, because the kids having not been educated on how to make music with real instruments or read music…

Cazembe – Because it was taken out of the schools…

Garth – They were like… well, we're just going to use our parents' records because that's what's hot right now, that's what we've been acclimated to so that's how we're going to take that from the party and take it into the studio – that became Hip-Hop. That also became Electronic music, and Electronic music is Techno music based in Detroit…

Cazembe – Thank you…

Garth – …which is House music, which is basically Warehouse music, which is up-tempo R&B that was started in the Chicago warehouse parties. And, just like Blues, Jazz and Rock & Roll once these genres entered Europe, or were exposed to people in Europe who took a liking to them and began to do their own version, these things then became popular as actual genres. So the Electronic music movement and the Hip-Hop movement in general are both based on Jimmy Carter/Reaganomics taking out public education for music and art. If people had continued to have that sort of [traditional] music education Pop music today would not be what it is with Hip-Hop and Electronic music. But because people were able to take that party energy, and companies were able to make technological advancements with beat machines and dudes started pressing buttons to do drums, and to sample from records, nobody really had to learn music like they used to in order to make something. So, it wasn't about necessarily being a great musician anymore because that time had passed. Now, it's about, "How do we relate to the scene with the music that we're making?"

Cazembe – What do you think of the pros and cons of that?

Garth – I think that obviously there are a lot of both. Everything moves in cycles. In a lot of ways, much of the early Hip-Hop, once it became conscious, seemed to backfire on the government. And the government had to come back in and utilize the recording labels and nurture every negative aspect about the culture it could and sell it back to the culture and to the world. It all goes in circles. In the blog that I wrote, I mentioned Gangsta Rap. It's a very short paragraph and it's based on the fact that Gangsta Rap started in 1988 – 1990; before then actually if you want to count all the things that Ice-T did, but he didn't really call his stuff Gangsta Rap he called it 'Crime Rhyme'. He felt like what he was doing was more of a white-collar Gangsta Rap because it was based on the whole hustler/drug dealer mentality where there were millionaires who lived in the ghetto because their game was so tight. So, Ice-T was coming from that angle rather than I'm a Crip or a Blood and I'm gang-bangin' – he never really got into that whole gang-bangin' thing as much as he did the Crime Rhyme thing – this was a little more classy. He was able to get away with a little bit more and you hear it when you listen to his stuff like '6 'N the Mornin''… 'Squeeze the Trigger'… 'I'm Your Pusher'… joints like that. 'Colors' really launched the Gangsta Rap thing, with the gang-bang aspect of Rapping. It became such an anthem among all the gangs that a lot of the rappers seeing Ice-T's success started to do that, and once the record labels figured out how popular this was going to be they took that shit and ran with it.

(Laughter)

Garth – By the time NWA and Easy E came along it was over with. The labels and corporations were like… wow…

Cazembe – This is gold…

Garth – There's sex and violence like we've never seen before! And so they started buildin' prisons like crazy. Between the year 1990 and 2000 they built more prisons in that decade than they did in all of the 1900s. That music helped usher in an entire generation of young Black and Latino men in the prisons based on the packaging
of the exploitation of this lifestyle. That, by the way, is considered a con.

Cazembe – Thank you. I was hoping you would say that.

The Garth Trinidad Interview (Part 3) - The Future of Music and the Death of the Record Label

By Cazembe Abena FROM LA2DAY.

In this third and final installment of The Garth Trinidad Interview, the legendary DJ drops on the return of the single, the absence of musical greatness in a Pop culture world of mediocrity, and… why he'd like to interview Britney Spears right now.

Cazembe Abena (LA2DAY) – Where do you see music going?

Garth Trinidad – That's an expansive question… Record labels are dying. Major recording labels have had their day. And - bringing up the cyclical nature of everything again – usually things go in cycles because of human faux pas; most of the time it's greed and power, fear and laziness. The Record Industry started to make an obscene amount of money by seeing artists go platinum after WWII… post Industrial Revolution, records are getting pressed up, no more WWI, etc. WWII came around and we were celebrating like no one had seen before, White, Black, everybody. So people were really going out and filling up their jukeboxes, and buying these records for their homes to listen to and celebrate because everybody was feeling good. And artists were really making names for themselves by performing, touring, and getting famous. There was this Jazz thing and Blues thing, and Rock & Roll was at its peak – people were making money! Labels were making money off the backs of these artists. And it was all based on a singles mentality, meaning it was all 7". Full-length albums were reserved for big bands that had a tour record or something, when records were still being pressed on that 15" heavy-ass-could-kill-somebody-vinyl and you'd be throwing them across the room like the dude in that 1964 James Bond movie, slicing off statues heads and stuff.

(Laughter)

Garth – They were 15" because they were trying to fit 8 -12 tracks on each side. But, with Blues artists they were pressing up singles and there would be a B-Side. They would put out these singles and give these artists a couple bucks or less to record something with no rights to it or anything – just you come in and record it and we make you famous – and that's it. Back then what Black people were doing musically was called Race music. There was no Rock & Roll, no R&B, and no Jazz where we were concerned - if it was Black music it was called Race music.

Cazembe – Do you think that the power is coming back to the artist now?

Garth – What I'm saying now, keeping in mind with what you're talking about with the power coming back to the artist, is that if the artist is smart, which is the gospel that Prince teaches, you will see where the market is going. Now, he had all sorts of advantages of course because of early record label assistance, but if you work hard, hustle and grind, stay on the street, perform, get your craft right and really care about the product that you're making, chances are you can be a success in your own right without the help of a major label. Unfortunately we are living in times where our generation is not accustomed to that sort of work ethic. So, most people would rather get a deal even thought they know it may not be good for them, but because it is easier for them. But… going back to the idea of the singles culture… I was talking with a brother the other day who recently left Motown Universal because of how everything is going back to a singles culture because of the download culture.

Cazembe – That's right.

Garth – And, once the labels started to utilize commercial radio to sell records without making full-length records, when they began to rely on one or two songs as hit records that kept getting more and more formulaic, with just all filler and fluff which is all garbage, people became aware of that. And when the labels lessened their dialogue with the public they began to lose. So [as a label with an artist] you may have one or two hot joints, but you're trying to get this person to sound like Jay-Z or Beyoncé so the artist never gets to really have their own identity. They're a sound a like because you want them to sound like so-and-so, so that they can keep up with the trend of what's going on right now. Unfortunately, the result of that is they never get a chance to develop a fan base. They're not going to go out on tour by themselves and sellout tickets. Comparatively speaking, if Sade goes on tour, or the Rolling Stones, or Prince… or damn near anybody from thirty some odd years ago that had consistent selling albums, they had a fan base; they connected with the audience – globally speaking. Now, you have to get a big corporation to put together a tour with all these young artists – at least five to ten of them on a tour – and they MIGHT sellout. Maybe. I've seen tours with the likes of 50 Cent and everybody else on the tour that had to be cancelled because they weren't selling enough tickets.

Cazembe – That's what happened when Justine Timberlake and Christina Aguilera tried to tour together a few years ago.

Garth – And Justin Timberlake and Christina Aguilera by the media standards today are major artists. Why are they not selling out? Because they got one or two hot joints, and then the other thing is (going back to the piece that I wrote) people have become so acclimated to the one or two hot songs that half the time they don't even pay attention to the rest of the album. They just download the song. We have a generation of kids that have never seen a CD, have never been to a record store… they only know Napster, iTunes, etc. For them the only thing closest to holding a piece of product is the iPod, or sitting in front of their laptop or computer screen… and that's it. How does the artists survive in the new marketplace? So, like I said earlier, that is an expansive question that really deserves more time, but that's my general take on it. It's going back to the singles culture… and the kids today… this is Generation Rip.

(Laughter)

Cazembe – In terms of today, with the exception of Prince whom you have mentioned, who do you think are the visionaries? Who has what it takes with the work ethic, and the innovation?

Garth – Prince is the last on that train of greatness. Other than him, there is nobody great today, because this generation has been trained by a popular culture. This generation wants to think of greatness, but does not want to walk the path of greatness. It's almost like the culture, in order to continue to market and sell, has lowered the standard so that certain artists can be called great. When you line them up against someone like Prince, who is the youngest in a line of generations of greats [there is no comparison]…

Cazembe – Who else is of that generation of greats?

Garth – Earth, Wind & Fire, Chaka Khan, Rufus, Marvin Gaye, Al Green, James, the JBs… artists overseas like Masekela, who were doing that revolutionary thing… Fela… these people were driven. You take someone like Fela and you see that he lived his life in war so that he could do his own thing. The Kalakuta Republic [his self-declared sovereign state] was his own thing and the [Nigerian] government tried to crush him over and over and over again, yet he continued on in his struggle. He was so charismatic that at one point the people wanted to vote him in as president of Nigeria, because he was calling out everybody. He was putting out music that called Haile Selassie [Ethiopian Emperor] out. That was serious, but yet when he died there were over a million people at his funeral. That's greatness. So, who in the Hell can you take from our generation today and put them up against anybody like that? There are a lot of good artists, but as far as I'm concerned there's no one great right now in this generation.

Cazembe – Earlier, you mentioned differences in radio from the 60s and 70s compared to now. What are some of those differences?

Garth – Things were a lot less corporate. After the Telecommunications Act [of 1996] passed it allowed what were at one point mid-sized corporate media conglomerates like Clear Channel to purchase, at very low prices, hundreds and hundreds of radio stations. That in a nutshell is what happened. When you try to fit music and art into a corporate company protocol, it will most times, not be good for the music and the art due to those things that drive the cycles that I mentioned earlier - greed, power, politics, laziness, fear, etc. "Gotta please the stockholders! Dammit, I need a Jay-Z! If you want this record deal you're going to have to open your shirt up. You're going to have to show some ass, and you're going to have to sound like Beyoncé. I'm sorry there's no other choice."

(Laughter)

Garth – "If you can't bring me the Pussy Cat Dolls, get out!"

(Laughter)

Cazembe – I hear you…

Garth – You know who I would like to talk to now? And get inside her head?

Cazembe – Who?

Garth - Britney Spears. Because I believe that what she's going through right now is the rebellion of everything that she has been pressed into doing all this time. And I think she's looking back going "Fuck that".

Cazembe – "My life has been bullshit!"

(Laughter)

Garth – She's like "Imma wear these boots, Imma shave my head and wear these booty shorts, and do drugs and I'm just gonna act a fool. Because I can't take this shit!"

Cazembe – You think she'll come out centered?

Garth – I hope she does. Most people don't, but I hope she does. But imagine all that pressure – gotta be Britney. The Britney we made you into. She was just a kid. She came out of the Mickey Mouse Club and they told her to dress and act like a ho in a little schoolgirl uniform. Her and Justin used to have Mickey Mouse ears on.

Cazembe – What advice would you give to the aspiring musician today?

Garth – Work! Put in work. Sacrifice. There are too many opportunities that will allow people who bust their ass to succeed. If you bust your ass you have more opportunities than you had 10 or 15 years ago to succeed on your own.

Cazembe – Would you advise starting your own label?

Garth – You could do that. No Problem. Let's take Peven Everett, who by the way is one of the most talented musicians out right now, dudes got like a dozen albums that he put out on his own. Sure it's limited edition stuff put out by him and his own label Studio Confession, and he's teamed up with websites like Dusty Grooves where you can find his records, but he's got his little audience. Same thing with Eric Roberson… people like that and they're out there doing it. Do I think they could do more? Yeah, but they are part of this generation. The market is flooded, they get caught up with trying to keep a standard of living… and I understand that. But, I think as people get older there are more and more opportunities for people to discover new things via iTunes, pod casts, public radio, satellite radio, etc. you know, to feel something different. The only reason why Chocolate City has such an effect now is because I began before the wave of technology hit. Because after I started within the span of five years there were like a hundred wannabee Garth Trinidads. I get hit up all the time with cats who have this new alternative Soul, Electronica thing going on and it's wonderful because the seed was planted and it spawned this whole movement. I'm not saying I'm responsible, but I'm partially responsible.

Cazembe – Sure you are. Brother Garth, it was a pleasure. Thank you.

Garth – Anytime, brother Cazembe. Thank you.

Garth Trinidad's List Of Top Ten Artists He's Vibing On Now:

J Davey
Ruth Anne Cunningham
Black Spade
Cool Kids
Wale
D'Angelo
The Politik
G&D
Chi Turner
Vieux Farka Toure