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October 4, 2009 - Sunday 

Current mood:  breezy
Category: Life
I've been confronted several times in the past few weeks (and many many more times in the past few years since my son was born) regarding an issue in which I have a strong opinion which flies in the face of the majority of the citizens in this country (and many others).



Circumcision.


I refused to do that to my son, and I honestly am of the opinion is a form of genital mutilation and has no place in a civilized society (outside of medical necessity, of course). I am incredibly glad I researched it in depth before I gave birth... had I not, my son would have fallen in line with the masses who are cut to 'look normal'.

"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." -Michel de Montaigne

As a parent who isn't a fan of circumcision, avid breastfeeding supporter, and anti-spanking -- i'm obviously not popular in the parenting circles in the south.

I don't openly chastise those who have chosen to do it, but I am a huge advocate of educating yourself on the issue instead defaulting to the social norm. I've been asked many times why I stand firm on this issue, but I think the more appropriate question is: "Why would you want to take a scalpel to your sons genitals, unless it was a medical necessity?"

I've gotten a few answers.

1) It looks better. Pure aesthetic purposes.

I have to wonder if they'd also strap down their daughters and give them boob jobs when they find out they're going to be flat chested? After all, we need our kids to look 'perfect'...

2) Hygiene.

My answer: teaching your son how to clean his frank n' beans regularly and correctly will eliminate the need for you to put him under the choping block. Lazyness is a pretty crappy excuse.

3) The AIDS studies in Africa

I'd like to point out a little known fact: in the industrialized world, the U.S has both one of the highest rates of circumcision (somewhere in the 80% range. compared to the ~30% globally) but ALSO has the highest rates of HIV/AIDS. Not to mention the mass differences in the culture, hygiene standards, prevalence of STDs, sexual practices, etc.

I have to pose this in retort to the AIDS 'link' --> if you're alright with circumcicing a boy to perhaps slightly decrease the risk of contracting HIV in the future, would you also be willing to extend that to female circumcision if it were to show there was a slight decreased risk of a STD? I'm guessing most wouldn't, which would beg the question why they'd use this excuse and not consistently follow across the gender lines.


I have genuine curiosity as to what rationale goes through a parents head when they decide this is a "good" thing to do.
Instead of being told that I am "psychologically scaring" my son for life by not having this procedure done on him, that I am dooming him to lonely sex-less adult life because women don't like the way it looks, and that I increasing his risk of illness (something that could be discussed on its own for pages) because I don't modify his anatomy at birth... I'd like a straight forward honest answer.





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sapien

 
Amen to that! I totally agree!

 
Posted by sapien on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 6:13 PM
[Reply to this
Modern Primate
Modern Primate

 
And yet you want mandatory STD vaccination for 12 year old girls?  LOLWUT?

I didn't get my son cut either.  I'll just teach him to use a rubber.

 
Posted by Modern Primate on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 6:41 PM
[Reply to this
Chris the Cosmic Voyager

 
Reality check:  (1) That vaccination doesn't involve permanently removing a portion of a person's body, (2) the reduction in cervical cancer risk for those who pick up HPV is substantial, (3) A huge percentage of the population are carrying HPV, and (4) The vaccination doesn't involve permanently removing a portion of a person's body

I realize I mentioned twice that the vaccination doesn't involve permanently removing a portion of a person's body, but that's such an enormous difference that I thought it was worth mentioning twice...

 
Posted by Chris the Cosmic Voyager on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 9:41 PM
[Reply to this
Mark J.A.

 
Yeah, Michael, because losing the natural protection and the most pleasurable nerve endings, and subsequently hardening of the ones that are left thus killing off the full sexual experience, that is so worth having other guys in the shower think you have a nice looking dick....

No no, seriously, its much more important what other people think.  Might as well just cut off the most sensitive part of the male body with no drugs for pain, espeically at an age where they can't understand what is going on and thier brain is just forming, I'm sure that does wonders.

And since we're worried about what other people think, why don't you get your 13 yr old daughter that boob job, so the other kids will think she has nice breasts.  I mean,  Michael, if we are going to be plastic people, why draw the line at shaping our cocks to societies standards eh?

Geez....
 
Posted by Mark J.A. on October 4, 2009 - Sunday - 8:29 PM
[Reply to this
Mark J.A.

 
I think you missed the point entirely, plastic Michael.  Perhaps you need a font for sarcasm?

Let me break it down for you....

Apparently it is not important for you that people are not only losing sensitive nerve endings used in sex, but also deadening the ones left, none of that matters to you except what the guys looking at your dick in school think.  I don't know what kind of school you went to, but I never checked other guys dicks out, nor did I care what they thought of mine.  Doesn't make sense to me, your argument here has got to be one of the worst ones for circumcision, you might as well be living 4 or 5 hundred years in China ago using the same nonsense to argue for foot binding....
 
Posted by Mark J.A. on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 2:35 AM
[Reply to this
Mis Red
Keri Russell

 
Yeah I have to say most of my male friends have always said you looked front and not to the sides....if people caught you looking they would think you were gay....

Perhaps Michaels bi-sexual?

 
Posted by Mis Red on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 8:13 AM
[Reply to this
Khaos Pants™

 
Does this mean we should Lobotomize the Children of Christians to a Vegetative State at an Early Age to prevent the Horrible effect that Literacy will bring them later in life?

 
Posted by Khaos Pants™ on October 4, 2009 - Sunday - 3:02 AM
[Reply to this
Moshellie
Michelle J.

 
So I should cut my son because high school punks are shallow dolts? THat doesn't seem justification enough. If I have a little girl who turns out to be flat chested a boob job because she'll be laughed at too? Kids are always going to be mean,.. they'll find a reason. I don't see as why I should modify his genitalia because some brats in school may think it 'looks funny'.  THe only reason it is seen as odd looking is because it has become a social norm... an unnecessary fabrication of aesthetic 'beauty'. I am not going to default on what society think is good for my son when I know that it's not necessary for his health and is irreversible.

 
Posted by Moshellie on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 8:22 PM
[Reply to this
Mark J.A.

 
You know, when I was in school, it wasn't what the guys thought of my dick that I was concerned with.....

;)

 
Posted by Mark J.A. on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 2:50 AM
[Reply to this
@m@nd@ Twisted

 
Like a hillbilly? Now that is simply ignorant. Every redneck, ignorant hillbilly I know has been cut because people down here don't know that being uncircumcised is an option. It is completely the norm here in the South...where most of these "hillbilly" types live. 

 
Posted by @m@nd@ Twisted on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 7:22 PM
[Reply to this
Modern Primate
Modern Primate

 
Uncircumcised dicks are bigger.  No worries.

 
Posted by Modern Primate on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 7:13 PM
[Reply to this
Mark J.A.

 
so you get on to Michelle saying she is not a man, then attempt to present the women's perspective?  Hmm...hypocritical a bit?...or perhaps just jealous?  ;)
 
Posted by Mark J.A. on October 4, 2009 - Sunday - 8:32 PM
[Reply to this
Mark J.A.

 
You're not very good at reading comprehension are you....

 
Posted by Mark J.A. on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 2:37 AM
[Reply to this
Modern Primate
Modern Primate

 
"...ugly as hell to most women."
Now there's a validated piece of information if I ever heard one.

 
Posted by Modern Primate on October 4, 2009 - Sunday - 5:43 AM
[Reply to this
Mis Red
Keri Russell

 
I think circumsised penises look weird...I prefer my man to come as nature intended!

 
Posted by Mis Red on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 10:30 PM
[Reply to this
Mis Red
Keri Russell

 
Erm most people huh?  How many times have you actually even left your back yard?  No, bad teeth aren't a turn on for me, neither are fake teeth or ones that look fake, which a lot of American's go for.  Seriously, for one that seems to want people to think he is an intellectual being, that has such a world of knowledge, you act seriously mis-informed.  Most people in England have yellow teeth...what century are you talking about?  And you know another thing that makes you look stupid and what people pick you up on, is the fact you can only insult, and you use the same so called insults again and again.  Are you hurting my feelings with saying about English people?  No, no more than me saying about how so many American's are loud mouthed obese people, as I have dual nationality.

 
Posted by Mis Red on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 8:08 AM
[Reply to this
Mis Red
Keri Russell

 
Urm nope, my man, my husband Misanthropic Tendencies, looks pretty damn near perfect to me. 
As per usual your come back is pitiful.

 
Posted by Mis Red on October 4, 2009 - Sunday - 9:05 PM
[Reply to this
Mis Red
Keri Russell

 
Please tell me oh guru, how it was relevent, insightful or even humorous, because the only thing people are laughing at is you. 

 
Posted by Mis Red on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 8:01 AM
[Reply to this
El Solo Lobo
Temy Beal

 
Not at all sure what to make of you, Michael, even after spending time at your page and blogs. In any case, I have personal experience with women from 18 to 65, in 27 different states and in two other nations who would beg to differ with your opinion. 
 
Posted by El Solo Lobo on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 8:40 PM
[Reply to this
Moshellie
Michelle J.

 
Lets face it, penis' are ugly period (although, I think womens junk is pretty fugly as well). They're a tool, not intended to be little statues to chisel into a particular shape.

 
Posted by Moshellie on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 8:25 PM
[Reply to this
@m@nd@ Twisted

 
I did it to my son because I didn't know any better and the doctor's recommended it. Had my daughter been a boy she would not have had it done because I had learned more about the procedure then.

Where do people get the idea that women want have sex with uncircumcised men? I have had several men who weren't cut and in my opinion they lasted longer and had less erectile problems than "normal" men. One ex of mine who was cut was bent abnormally and you could clearly see it was due to his circumcision...not freakishly so but enough to be noticeable.

Besides...if your son wants it done he can have it done later in life. Who are we to make those choices for our children? I really regret making that choice for my son.

 
Posted by @m@nd@ Twisted on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 7:19 PM
[Reply to this
Chris the Cosmic Voyager

 
If he makes the decision at some point that he wants the procedure, I'll be perfectly happy to pay for it... but somehow I really doubt that he's ever going to be making a decision to do that.  I've known a few guys who aren't circumcised and the unanimous opinion has been that they have never wished to have had it done.  Apparently the ongoing locker room dick comparison thing in Michael's world wasn't a problem for them.


 
Posted by Chris the Cosmic Voyager on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 9:54 PM
[Reply to this
@m@nd@ Twisted

 
Now who's spewing drama bullshit?

It's a fact that most men with less than straight penises are that way because of circumcision. Look it up.

 
Posted by @m@nd@ Twisted on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 12:22 PM
[Reply to this
Mark J.A.

 
Hey plastic Michael, don't you have some little school boys to check out in the shower somewhere?  You know, since your so into that and all. 

What an insulting squid.
 
Posted by Mark J.A. on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 2:41 AM
[Reply to this
B

 
I have 3 boys and all of them have been circumcised.  I never thought of it and no one was discussing it back then.  I have now seen more information on it and honestly I can't say that I wouldn't do the same, though I would probably defer to dad on this one. 

When my son had his son I did talk to him about the circumcision.  His girlfriend left the decision to him and after having looked at it he decided for.  I don't know that it's necessary or that it's barbaric, but it is interesting that it started as a religious ritual and then became popular because of some misconceptions about the benefits.

 
Posted by B on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 7:37 PM
[Reply to this
B

 
Well, after reading this and poking around a little more, it doesn't make sense to have it done to an infant if it's just as easy to make the decision to do it later in life if someone chooses to.  I won't be having any more children, but if anyone ever asks my opinion I would definitely recommend they research it more before deciding. :)

 
Posted by B on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 7:57 PM
[Reply to this
El Solo Lobo
Temy Beal

 
Thank you.
 
Posted by El Solo Lobo on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 8:32 PM
[Reply to this
Mis Red
Keri Russell

 
I really don't understand why it's so widly done there.  It's pretty much only done here for a specific medical reason or for religious reasons like the Jewish faith.  There was even a programme here saying the circumsisions performed by religious people without the use of anaesthesia shouldn't be allowed, as it was cruel. 

I really don't see the reason why some women say it looks ugly without a circumcision...when it's errect there isn't any spare skin flapping round there...it's just because people want to be like everyone else.  And you know, I think if it was accepted and some stupid dumb bimbo actress had a female circumcision done, then the sheep would start to follow on masse, just to you know, look the same.  Stupidity at it's finest.
 
Posted by Mis Red on October 3, 2009 - Saturday - 10:36 PM
[Reply to this
Khaos Pants™

 
I got my circumcision when I was 26, I had cancer and a trim of the tissue fixed it. Since it runs in my family I decided to take care of it before my boys had to. My Father had the cancer and treated it at 60. It hasn't skipped a generation yet... I have noticed it's easier to keep things clean, more sensitive for scrogging, doesn't work well with tight clothing, makes passing kidney stones more fucked up and I get UTI's now which I never got before... So I ruined my son's to prevent cancer... We need a better understanding of the Genome so we can take care of these things before birth.

 
Posted by Khaos Pants™ on October 4, 2009 - Sunday - 3:01 AM
[Reply to this
Ochez
Shannon Ochs

 
Not that I was promiscuous in my younger years (ahem...), in my experience, circumcised penises provide more pleasure than non-circumcised. That may just be me. It's a parent's choice, I agree. Research is NEVER a bad idea involving a child who cannot choose in thier own. But a child's genitalia can be picked on just as much as it's name. It's all about preference. If a parent doesn't want to do it, then don't. Who cares either way? End point.

 
Posted by Ochez on October 4, 2009 - Sunday - 3:13 AM
[Reply to this
Susan

 
None of my sons have been circumcised. Thought it was genital mutilation and because I'm way too cheap to pay good money for something completely unnecessarry. My oldest kids are 24 now. Fraternal boy and girl twins. Everyone thought I was harming my son by not having him circumcised. Last month I asked him about it, he said he has no desire to change himself, besides it makes no difference to him as he's a priest. My other grown son never said anything about it.

So my experiences, I've been with men both circumcised and uncircumcised. My husband isn't circumcised, though the Navy has offered to do it for him. Indians in America don't bother, his tribe in particular finds the practice barbaric in the extremes. As for looks, penii all look the same in bed. It makes no difference to me.

My final summation, it is an extremely archaic barbarian practice that needs to die out. Also think of the money you'll save.

On the subject of breast feeding, 24 years ago, all the doctors and nurses told me I was harming my twins, saying I was starving them to death as it is a fact that not enough milk can be produced. Well I let it all go through one ear and out the other. They are 24 years old now and obviously they didn't starve to death. Wasn't easy back then because I was the only one out there who did nurse babies and until well after a year of age. Breast pumps were horrible too. On top of that I was still in the military, but I managed. Only one of my 9 kids who wasn't fully breastfed for a year was my 19 year old, I had to leave behind an almost 3 month old baby to deploy to the middle east for the Gulf War.


 
Posted by Susan on October 4, 2009 - Sunday - 4:01 PM
[Reply to this
Chris the Cosmic Voyager

 
Wait, I missed the twins part... still, I stand by my remarks.  Twins have been a reality since humankind have been walking the planet, and a woman's body, most of the time, is more than capable of adjusting its production to meet the demand. 

 
Posted by Chris the Cosmic Voyager on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 10:04 PM
[Reply to this
Chris the Cosmic Voyager

 
Wow... were they advising you to not breastfeed because their belief was that YOU weren't producing enough milk or because they believed that in general women can't produce enough milk?  I would call bullshit on the latter (and actually the former, given your success), because people weren't always turning to cattle to feed infants and the formula industry hasn't even been around all that long (relatively speaking).  An infant would be malnourished if fed straight cow's milk, anyway.  It worries me that people like your former care providers have been out in the world giving such poor advice. 


 
Posted by Chris the Cosmic Voyager on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 10:02 PM
[Reply to this
Mark J.A.

 
Wonderful blog and I agree 100 percent.  Circumcision is male genital mutilation, it is sick and it is perverse.

Not only do you cut off up to an inch in length, not only do you take away many of the most pleasurable sexual nerves, but you take off the natural protection of the penis as well as the ability to make smegma.  As a result of losing its protection, the skin and nerves that are left harden and thus lose sensitivity. 

People that circumsize their children in this day and age are simply lazy and uneducated, and they are only torturing their child needlessly.  I find it abhorrant.

Peace my friend,
Mark
 
Posted by Mark J.A. on October 4, 2009 - Sunday - 8:25 PM
[Reply to this
John(Coyote)
John castellenas

 
I was given the opportunity to choose. I feel it was a good decision by my mother. Have fun and be careful.
                         Coyote
 
Posted by John(Coyote) on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 4:21 AM
[Reply to this
Nymphadora Nightingale
Juliann Mccall

 
i agree with you totally! if i had known what i know now i prob wouldnt have had my son cut and  as ashamed as i am to addmitt it i  had my son cut because to be honest i didnt know there was a choice and i was very scareed  even after  helping take care of my brother  to even change a diper scared i would be accused of  touching him in private places, but i was 18 and very scared. my lil brother had to be cut 2 times yes i said 2 i remember it very well. the first time he came home wiyh this plastic ring and the skin went black and just feel off the second time he was actually cut. and now he tells me that when he is soft  or simi it looks un cut but when he is hard it looks cut so it seems to me nigther  worked. and all getting a boy cut does is make his man hood smaller.  and that is a ver honest opion . but woman in the states should be educated on this because the only reason to have a man cut was to go to heaven that was the start of it and as i know now it is very useless and unless medically needed i see no use in it my mother says my father is uncut but she chose to try to have my brother cut. my son is cut but that was stupidtuidy. so thers my take on it

 
Posted by Nymphadora Nightingale on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 2:14 PM
[Reply to this
Burch

 
I'm not going to lie or try to use a bunch of words to act like I have an opinion on this.  I don't have one and I don't really give a damn one way or the other.  My junk's cut and it works fine, if I'm missing out on something because of nerve ending whatever I don't know what it is so it's no big deal, it works more than well enough for me.

And between gym classes, sports and the Navy I never once heard of any dude being on pecker patrol in the shower rooms so I don't know where that one guy went to high school. 


 
Posted by Burch on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 6:24 PM
[Reply to this
Alicia
Live Today

 
This is something i didn't even think to research before my son was born, then at the hospital the day after he was born, (when the doctor said it was time) did I think about it.  If I were to have another boy, I will do the research first. I have thought about it since the fact and often wonder "why?"!

 
Posted by Alicia on October 5, 2009 - Monday - 9:48 PM
[Reply to this
Kat
Kat Wissinger

 
Ashton isn't circumsized (sp) either, Thankfully they don't do it in Scotland. Though Ricky has been pushing the subject of having him done since it's supposed to be more hygienic, I'd rather not put my child through that.

 
Posted by Kat on October 6, 2009 - Tuesday - 12:00 AM
[Reply to this
CJMICHIELS
Chris Michiels

 
M Good work quoting Michel de Montaigne



Our OB's opinion was "It's probably better if he looks like Daddy",

meaning - It makes no difference either way,

so we left him...

Then, at age 65, my father-in-law had to be circumcised because of an infection

(he wasn't what I would call slovenly, but I never pressed him on his personal grooming habits)

and THAT was just awful (he said).


 
Posted by CJMICHIELS on October 6, 2009 - Tuesday - 12:13 AM
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Moshellie

Michelle J.


Last Updated: 11/21/2009

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Gender: Female
Age: 26
City: Conyers
State: Georgia
Country: US