Seems like many valid points... Just one thing I'd add: Although it is good to have music playing between sets, it's best when kept at a reasonable volume... people do like chitchat, and having to yell into someone's ear in the same way they would were a band playing is slightly ridiculous...

Yeah.

 

Good call.  I always think of the music as a conversation peice, so low(er) volume would be a good thing.
 

i'm assuming you had a bad time at the last show you played.  hahaha!
 

I didn't nessecarily have a bad time except for the fact that the band I wanted to see the most got slapped on last, & squeezed off of the bill.

Things just could have been a lot more smoothly from the get go.

 

Something show organizers o all of the time that makes me roll my eyes is book the same bands in the same order show after show, with the same band as the headliner time after time.  I liked to mix it up a little; have themed shows sometimes even.  One show would be a punk rock show, the next show would be a ska/rockabilly show, then a metal show, and so on and so forth.

One thing I liked to do when I ran shows was to book 3 or more show at a time.  Having a flier for the next show available to showgoers when they walked in was very helpful in getting bodies through the door the next time.  Booking bands was nice because you had more than One date that they could pick from.  When a really great band was due to play in a month or so (like COINMONSTER), people had a much longer time to tell their friends.

We had the bands enter the building from a side entrance with their stuff, with a large area along the wall to pre-setup equipment.  This worked out well by not having large equipment getting in the way of the showgoers.

I always tried to put the showgoers first, then the bands.  Whoever collected the money at the door was instructed to say thank you to every person as they paid for admission, even if the music was too loud for them to hear it over.

I would observe the different circles of friends and try to pick out some of the popular kids  to ask if they wanted to help me promote the shows.  I would give them a stack of fliers and ask them to pass them out at school.  It was important to find the right kids to do this job.  The right kid would have to be very trustworthy and passionate about the music.  A few of these kids became very good lifetime friends.  Some of these kids would come early and help me set up and stay late and help me clean.

I never really did it for income, but sometimes their was a lot of money to spread around.  I would always pay expenses first, then I would pay the bands and myself equally, treating myself like one of the bands.  I felt that it was fair that each band got paid the same that I paid myself.

There are a few exceptions for my band paying system though.  Sometimes a new, young, local band would ask to play and I would let them play short set in the opening slot with no pay.  This was good for the band to get some experience and exposure, and some of those bands became popular very quickly and moved up in the world of all age shows.  Other bands, like COINMONSTER, had a specific asking price for traveling and playing a show, and sometimes it was a lot more than other bands got for playing.  I took their money out before deviding it between everyone else, including my share.

The most important thing I learned was to treat everyone with respect, especially the kids who came to see the bands.  That was the number one factor that eventually made my shows so popular.

Your milage may vary.

 

All valid points, and great advice from someone who has been doing it for a while.  anyone doing shows should take all of this into account.
 

Yeah, the guy above you and I used to book shows all the time back in Altoona.  The shows really do go better when everything goes smoothly.  Rules are not always a bad thing.

 

Yeah as a "punk rocker" it's funny thing to realize that there are times where anarchy is a bad thing.
 

sadly the things that seem like they should be common sense, aren't.  i wish there were more intelligent people in the music/booking scene instead of people that have no clue whats going on and just think durrr live bands = $$ and dont give a shit about how it looks/sounds/is put together.  amen.
 

I love the phrase "common sense" because the more I think about it, the less common sense is. 

 

While I agree to some of your points some are fairly unrealistic.

In a perfect world the 2 stage Idea would be great but Who has a Board that big that you could mic 2 stages with it! I shudder at the thought! Though I was just looking at this wicked Board at Guitar Center Robinson and it was only a grand! If you used a large board like that and 2 snakes you could pull something like that off! and just Grab the Mics and move them or if your loaded use 16 mics on each stage.

When we do multiple band shows I'm all for Drummers Pre Setting up their Set! However one comment on that! Some Venue's are complete Dicks about People Setting up and Using the side enterance! I won't even go into how much time I wasted Babysitting the Side door! OMG

I'm a firm believer in keeping everything the same for every band! My feelings are that Everyone is the Star and there shouldn't be any Headliners!

It's all about the music not about who is better or worse, not about who has more fans, not even about how much money! It's about the artform - the music - the dream!

 

 

 

Who mics everything?  We almost never play a show where there is more than a vocal mic.  It's considered a luxury for us to get monitors.

 

Yeah.  I was thinking 2 small PA's at best only miking vocals & maybe the kick drum.  Most hall shows don't have the amps miked unless there's a soundboard recording being made or fed to synch with video.

Even at that, it's no problem to swing vocal mics from one stage to the other in between bands.

 

amen .. haha

i usually tend to stick to the bar shows.. or at the all ages oakland cafe ones, they have their own staff and sound guy already set up..

thank you for posting this tho.. sometimes its nice to have suggestions from bands, etc.. so you know from a promoters standpoint what you can possibly do to make things run smoother :o)

 

Yeah.  I've been on both sides.  Mostly, both sides at the same time.  This is just kind've a brainstorm to look back on next time I'm involved in one of these things in any way.

 

We attempt to Mic as much as possible though it's always the Drums that get screwed!

Mic all the instruments then see how many ports you have open and the Drums get the rest!

We do this on every show even in Egypt or Downtown! I guess you could say Sound is important to us! because of this I do know one thing I'll NEVER use house sound ever again for one of my shows I got screwed for the BC Rock Off and I won't let that happen again!

 

I'd rather mic the drums and then crank the amps, but that's the guitar player in me talking.  Tube amps don't sound nice at "soundman" levels.

Too many bands don't take a look at the overall sound of their band from the audience perspective.  I like to take the time to walk out in front whenever possible before we start to see if it all sounds good.  After a while, you get a feel for the way different rooms will react and you can adjust accordingly.

 

I would agree, unless you're trying to make a soundboard recording... but that's a whole different ball game.
 

I'm ont really that into trying to make a soundboard recording at shows that we do.  There just isn't time to do it even close to right.

 

Exactly, unless you're in doing it before doors open, you're up 1st, and no one touches anything...
 

Most shows we play, we're using ghetto sound equipment, but it's fitting for punk rock...
 

Ever think of writing a book?? I'm a writer/editor so I had to ask. Minored in music business too, and trust me - some folks need a very basic 'how-to' book! There are many but a fresh perspective never hurts!! 
 

I'm actually in the first stages of writing a book exactly like this, I was just going to ask Eric if he wanted to get in on the action as well.  I think we've all been around enough to provide some fresh incite.

 

haha, yeah that be awesome.. a DYI guide to booking shows... lol

i would love to see that.. if i could be of any help, just let me know.. :)

 

Not a bad idea at all.  I could definitely see the merit of such a thing.

We'd definately have a no bullshit approach, and we can certainly be wordy enough to expand this into a short how-to kind've book, or even just a chapter in a book covering similar subjects.

This might be a damn good venture.

 

 

 

This is why I liked brave new world when they were on bates st.  They didn't mic anything but the vocals.  Everything there usually sounded great.  Just depended on where you were standing.
 

That room is nuts.  I did really enjoy playing there though.  I love those basement-vibe kinda shows.

Are they going to try and do anythign like that at their new old location?

 

i don't think so.  the old location is like above a comic book shop or something.  no room to have a show, plus i'm sure there would be noise problems.  haha!
 

They should've kept the old building for shows, ha ha ha.
 

I think all guitars should come with a pedal tuner so that everybody can tune in silence.  I've always tried to avoid tuning outloud when possible.

 

You could design a guitar with a built-in tuner.

 

All excellent points.  I've been guilty of tuning with the volume on, but we really try to keep that to a minimum... and one person up there wanking away while eveyone is setting up does kind've detract form the whole 1st note of the song where everyone bounds in.  We'll have to keep that in mind.

Our 1st song usually is our sound check,  we just hope the sound guy adjusts form there.

 

Most bands we normally get it right by the second song! Some of the bands (Like Myze Well) cause we run sound for them so much we normally can set them up by about midway the 1st song!

One pet Peve I've got is bands attempting to run sound from the stage! Unless you have a wireless and can go out and check things You just can't do it! Even a BAD sound man can do better than you trying to run sound from the stage! While you can hear yourself singing in the monitors doesn't mean you sound good to the crowd! It is next to impossible to tweak vocals from the stage. What you end up with is almost always generic!

You should be able to find someone to run sound for an equal share most of the time if he's using your equipment! Oh and Invest in a good snake!!!

Not mic'n the AMPs tends to make for an un equal sound! And it makes it too hard to hear the monitors cause the AMPs are cranked!

I've always said Keep the AMPs at a comfortable level that you can hear eachother with and let the soundman take it out to the crowd!

I could tell you a horror story about the 1st band I ran sound for!! "HEADROCK" OMG I could never get the vocals loud enough cause they cranked their AMPS up so much and Who would they blame!! Me every time! A soundman has no control when you crank it all the way!

 

Most bands should know if someone in their band is going to be leaning towards the "carnking up" of his or her amp.  More guitar players need to step off the stage and see what cranked amps sound like out front.  I tend to turn my guitar amp to the side if it's being miced and that makes it easier to hear on stage as well as mix out front.  This also makes it easier to run monitors because my guitar can then be left out of the monitor mix.  Turning down is not an option because I don't play with a fizzy, buzzy sound like so many guitar players these days.  I also need to have access to feedback at times for certain passages and if my amp isn't at a decent volume, that's not happening I'm not going to just crank the gain on my amp to get feedback.  That adds unwanted noise and can turn nice musical feedback into bad feedback.

Remember, PA's were originally just for vocals.  Bands used to play with cranked tube amps, loud as hell drums and vocals run through a PA.  Sure, that was the 70's, but if something's not broke, why fix it?

 

I agree with amps sounding much better cranked... and in small venues that's the way to go.

The last social hall show we did, the sound was fine while I was out running around with the wireless, and only the vocals & kick drum were miked.

 

I like the Sandtraps policy that you have to have a band bring you in as an opener before you can book there. I think venues and promoters need to be more selective of who they let play.

That comment about everyone is the Star, let everyone play the same is regoddamndicolous. Some bands are better than others, some bands are a bigger draw then others. That's just the way it is.

 

I 100% agree that some bands are better, and not all are equal.  Being the "star" act is something a band has to work for.  I booked many bands as unpaid openers that really did not deserve to get paid, play last, or even play first.  I didn't listen to every band before booking them.  They had to proove to me that they were going to be good enough to bring in the bodies, and therefor deserve to get paid for their performance.  I didn't do this for a band who seemed to have their act together.  Those bands were usuially the one who would hand me a tape or CD, and if they were good, they would be put up higher on the band list.

I worked with the not-so-talented bands.  I can think of a few bands that when they first started out were umm...hard to accept, but as they played and got some practice playing in front of a crowd, they became very well loved.

Some "bands" were obviously not in it for the music and it was very transparent to everyone.

I would always walk around and mingle with the showgoers.  One very important thing I would ask them is, "Who did you come to the show to see play tonight?", and, "Who are you most excited to see play in future shows?"  This gave me an idea of what bands were more important in the grand scheme of things.  Information like that helped me to know which bands to book and how often to book them.

All of the above info in this post is a secret though.  To not make any enemies, a show promoter might want to pretend that all band are equal.

 

I think the most important part of this whole thing is the part about talking to the audience.  Who does that anymore?  No one.  Promoters and people who book shows just tend to book whatever bands either that they like or know or whichever bands happen to be available for the gig.

 

That's a good point.  Who do people want to see?

 

If we knew that, everything would be so much easier.  I think today's people want to see something that makes them want to move, but isn't too far out there.  That is except for the people that only want something that's out there.

Me, I want to rock.

 

I want to see the demise of soul-less or false-faced nu-metal and nu-rock.  The static laiden cmputer sounding drop tuned guitars and feighned heart-felt lyrics are getting really fucking old.

 

That, and people now think m3p's are good quality.
 

Part of the problem anymore is the production of albums, every band is just jacked up through the roof and then compressed to hell and back so that none of the recordings have any depth at all.  Every band sounds the same because every producer is doing that these days and there are even cds that have digital clipping because they are just cranked that far.

 

Wow, I couldn't reply to your "preach on brotha" comment for some reason, so I picked the one above it.

Really though, songs should give off some kind of emotion.  I don't get that from a lot of the stuff I'm hearing lately.  A good song should convey a feeling, a thought, an emotion... something other than "I'm embarrassed for this band". 

 

Preach on brotha!!

 

I think we all do this same thing sub-conciously, even if we don't mean to.
 

A lot of bars have policies like that.  It's a good way to do things.

I have seen bands that make people walk out of the bar/venue.  Those bands shouldn't have equal time.  Ha ha ha.

 

There sure are a lot of words on here.

 

Yes, and Tommy should read them all, along with these words.