MySpace


Subscribe To Our Blog!
Add Us As A Friend!
blogs.myspace.com/progressiveamericatimes
MySpace.com | rss | sign in
September 18, 2008 - Thursday 

Category: News and Politics
The world's financial market is in shambles.  Why you ask?  Why bail out banks that obviously screwed things up for everyone?   Well, we all know the real answer, there is no oversight.  And for all the deregulation types out there, do not support the bail out.  You can not have it both ways.  Either you deregulate and the banks all fail because they made horrible decision or support more oversight so this nonsense does not happen in the first place.  This is standard Republican style though.  All the fun and games of deregulation, until it hits the fan, then big brother government comes through to save the poor, poor, mega bank that screwed the pooch.  Sorry, I am not interested in having government support for the Robber-Barons.  We did this already.  This is part of why there is an SEC in the first place. 

Moving on.  There needs to be a little reality about McCain's change in views lately.  He's pandering, and it is obvious, so please do not try and argue differently.  Be intellectually honest about it for once.  What does the pandering really mean though?  Will he follow his original ideas once elected? or will he "dance with the one that brought you."  This is an important question one must face if even thinking about voting for McCain.  Obviously standard Bush/Republican policies are not very affective.  I think it's face to say that only completely ignorant people will blame this economic situation on Clinton. 

How ever one feels about the war, reality is that America can not afford it.  Is the cost of losing our seat as the top nation worth propping up an Iraq.  Terrorism is not easy, and the world is not different than it was on 9/10/01, one's perception of that world change on 9/11.  I am tired of the fear tactics.  We have the best funded counter-terrorism intelligence agencies in the world.  That is good enough.  If the US left Iraq tomorrow, America would not die in a fire the next day.  It just would not. 

Anyways, there is the first of it...  I do not really plan on dealing much with this Palin nonsense.  It is a political move, we all know it.  I will try to focus on the two people that actually matter to this election, McCain and Obama.  I will try to stay away from everything not related to policy.  Stuff like the fabricated "lipstick on a pig" is clearly a waste of time.  We buy this garbage and the media feeds it to us.  Ignore it, it does NOT matter at all.  Once stories like that start being ignored, maybe we can get some real questions answered about policy and what the hell we are going to do to put America back together.
2:58 PM
 
Print
Previous Post: It may be time to come back | Back to Blog List
Anonymous Johnson

 
"Oversight" is another word you're using for regulation.

These banking institutions and lenders suck, and people know they suck. The problem isn't lack of so-called oversight; the problem is people being stupid and taking out mortgages with adjustable interest rates, then not being able to pay them back, and the lenders failing from the defaulted loans, which in turn makes people hate such institutions more - all of which reflect negatively on these companies' stock, which in turn also fails, and then bankruptcy results.

Barney Frank, a lovely Democrat that I'm sure you admire, was right. We needed to celebrate whenever Lehman Brother's was left to its demise. It was an institution that failed in the free market. And it was sort of championed as laissez-faire for a day, until our leaders choose to be socialists and take majority ownership of a private business. Like Andrew Horowitz said, "Businesses that are allowed to survive, even as they are insolvent and illiquid will only further corrupt the system." Keeping AIG and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac afloat by loaning them further billions of dollars that we don't have (and may not see repaid) makes our deficit worse and detracts from the integrity of a free market. And its does make the government look bad to take over a failing business that no one likes, just because it is a failing business and no one likes it.

Are you saying that you don't support the takeover, or do you? You've advocated oversight, but with regards to current happenings, that is neither here nor there at this point.

Because I'm not Republican with the neo-conservative Keynesian economic ideals, I don't want big daddy government to bail anyone if "it hits the fan." Deregulate, and then don't expect government to take care of you when you f it all up. The free market needs to be free - it's a word in the term itself. Oversight should ONLY exists if it is to protect the integrity of the free market.
 
Posted by Anonymous Johnson on September 18, 2008 - Thursday - 8:56 PM
[Reply to this] 
newyork4kucinichDEMANDS Cheney be prosecuted now
Al Rogers

 
Sarah Palin and her witch hunting pastor
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTQ0&title=Sarah_Palin__amp__her_witch_hunting_pastor_MSNBC&vpkey=94ed6a9ac1
McCain misrepresents his reformer credentials
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTQ2&title=McCain_misrepresenting_his_reformer_credentials&vpkey=94ed6a9ac1
Sarah Palin and the Alaska bridge to nowhere pork barrel project. She misrepresents her position.
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTQ1&title=Alaska_Bridge_to_No_Where_Sarah_Palin_s_position_&vpkey=94ed6a9ac1
Sarah Palin clueless on the Bush Doctrine
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTQz&title=Sarah_Palin_clueless_of_the_Bush_Doctrine&vpkey=94ed6a9ac1
German Citizen tortured and subjected to illegal rendition by the CIA
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTQx&title=German_Citizen_tortured_by_the_CIA_Khaled_Masri
CIA operated black sites in Poland. Torture prisons violate the Geneva Convention Laws.
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTQw&title=CIA_Prisons_existed_in_Poland_BLACK_SITES&vpkey=30769261cc
Blackwater Shadow Army with the permission of Order 17 commit multiple war crimes in Iraq,
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTMz&title=Blackwater_Shadow_army_Order_17_war_crimes&vpkey=30769261cc
CIA admits mistakes in landing rendition flights on British Soil.
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=ODky&title=CIA_admits_mistakes_in_secret_rendition_flights&vpkey=30769261cc
Bush’s propaganda campaign to sell the Iraq war
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTI0&title=Bush_s_propaganda_campaign_to_sell_the_war&vpkey=30769261cc
Vice Presidential Candidate Joe Biden slams Mc Cain’s foreign policy
http://peace.tv/viewVideo.php?video_id=ODcx
Invasion of Iraq was for us to grab a larger share of the Oil Iraq. Our major Oil companies have secured a very lucrative oil contract with Iraq.
http://peace.tv/viewVideo.php?video_id=ODI1
House Bill 1234 Iraq Peace Plan authored by Congressmen Kucinich
http://peace.tv/viewVideo.php?video_id=ODQz
Bush and Cheney manipulated intelligence to influence congress and public opinion
http://peace.tv/members/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTI1 &title=Pre_war_intelligence_manipulated_by_Bush__amp__Cheney&vpkey=1272dc74e3
Condaleeza Rice misrepresents intelligence reports to sell Iraq war
http://peace.tv/viewVideo.php?video_id=OTM0&title=Condaleeza_Rice_misrepresents_intelligence_reports&vpkey=2091825bc3
 
Posted by newyork4kucinichDEMANDS Cheney be prosecuted now on September 22, 2008 - Monday - 6:47 PM
[Reply to this] 
Billy P
Billy Pierce

 
"Oversight should ONLY exists if it is to protect the integrity of the free market."

Great! I agree. Well put.
 
Posted by Billy P on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 3:41 AM
[Reply to this] 
Cykadelica
Ryan Unrepentant Progressive

 
Good to see ya back... =)
 
Posted by Cykadelica on September 18, 2008 - Thursday - 8:58 PM
[Reply to this] 
Original American Patriots

 
The banks screwed up? Really? Who gives the money to the banks? Who supplies cheap credit? Who requires banks to make loans to people who really can't afford them? You figure that out and you may have an idea what the root problem of this mess is.

Yes, McCain and Obama are both pandering, but no big surprise there since nether one has principles or integrety.

Agreed, we cannot afford to keep fighting in Iraq. In fact we cannot afford to fight anywhere else either thanks to our HUGE debt and inflated currency (hint, hint). Time to bring an end to our interventionist foreign policy. No more policing the world! No more nation-building! Only a foreign policy of "peace, commerce, and honest friendship."
 
Posted by Original American Patriots on September 18, 2008 - Thursday - 9:08 PM
[Reply to this] 
colin zeal
colin zeal

 
I hope you don't mean to completely absolve clinton's administration of its role in the deregulation and free market bonanza. only the most blind partisan would fail to admit that clinton's economic philosophy (i.e. embrace financialization of the economy while "compromising" to remove the regulations which made the SEC effective in the first place) had nothing to do with this situation. the fact is, for a good 30 years the economic leadership in the white house, elephant or donkey, has been inept and setting us up for this.
 
Posted by colin zeal on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 12:09 AM
[Reply to this] 
PolitiKat
Kat Kiefer-Newman

 
It's amazing to me how little compassion people exhibit when "it's the other guy" who's made the mistake, having the problems, screwed the pooch. Why do we need a government bailout for people who willingly and knowingly took loans they couldn't understand the fine print on? Because regardless of what choices WERE made, these are PEOPLE; these are human beings; these are "us" - an army, as the saying goes, is only as strong as its weakest soldier. We need to lift these brothers and sisters up and help them correct their mistake because they are us. Another phrase, "there, but for the grace of God go I." It's time to stop pointing fingers and start caring for "We, the people" here in the US (and, truly, around the world). The deregulation has proven to be a BAD idea, bad for the people, bad for the nation. This government works for us, all of us, even those who misguidedly and mistakenly took out sub-prime loans. Let's get this mess fixed.
 
Posted by PolitiKat on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 1:22 AM
[Reply to this] 
Brian

 
its easy to blame people, the true blame lies with these institutions. not the dems or republicans, but the institutions that used predatory lending habits to convince people to take these ridiculous loans they knew they werent going to be able to pay back. If you want to see a good film on predatory lending in this country go rent a dvd called Maxed out. It is one of the most powerful documentaries I have watched, all about predatory lending. It is the fault of the politicians that failed to provide oversight on these predators, and in some cases enabling them (i.e. the bankruptcy bill of 2005) but it was not the politicians who forced them to give these loans, they gave them willingly.
 
Posted by Brian on October 9, 2008 - Thursday - 3:32 AM
[Reply to this] 
Billy P
Billy Pierce

 
Your desire for "compassion" is admirable... and would be appropriate if we were talking about a parent helping their teenager pay a traffic ticket.

However, what we are talking about is taking money from people who made good decisions, and giving it to people who made poor decisions, despite being forwarned of the possible consequences.

Just like bailing out the teenager, if we do it again and again and again, the teenager never learns the lesson, and the 11 year old younger sibling is likely to repeat it in the future... knowing full well that mom and dad will be there to "help"
 
Posted by Billy P on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 3:45 AM
[Reply to this] 
Brian

 
except that these aren't children, they are corrupt greedy credit companies that purposly lent money to people that they knew couldnt pay back. Not just on home loans, but second mortgages, credit cards and more. When your struggling and someone comes up to you and tells you, don't worry about it, you will be able to pay this in two years when you are making more. and lull you into a false sense of security so you sign these papers. It is a well known fact that these credit organizations make more money from people who are bankrupt than people who aren't. The problem is they spread themselves too thin and too many people went bankrupt. If they would have shown some sort of responsibility as a company they wouldn't have offered loans to risky borrowers. A friend of mine worked for a refinance company and he even told me that they didnt care who they loaned to, they were encouraged to loan to people that were extremely risky because they would make a higher profit for the company in the long run.
 
Posted by Brian on October 9, 2008 - Thursday - 6:14 PM
[Reply to this] 
PolitiKat
Kat Kiefer-Newman

 
Please, I'm tired of hearing about the possible "nanny state" that Democrats want to turn the US into. It isn't about the responsible people bailing out the irresponsible; rather, it's about policies being put back into place that won't allow corporations to take advantage of people when and where they are vulnerable. That isn't the same as a parent and a child. Don't patronize. It isn't the same thing at all, and all these analogies do is minimize and insult.
 
Posted by PolitiKat on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 6:16 AM
[Reply to this] 
Billy P
Billy Pierce

 
This wasn't a case of corporations taking advantage of people when they were vulnerable... this was a case of people and speculators entering into contracts will full disclosure. There was no "taking advantage" here. These people weren't duped into adjustable rate mortgages, they weren't duped into buying more home than they could afford if their job and the market changed... they did it on their own.
 
Posted by Billy P on September 20, 2008 - Saturday - 1:50 PM
[Reply to this] 
Brian

 
and im assuming you got a loan during that time billy, thats why you would know so well? Trust me several of my good friends got duped into these loan terms, they were told false promises that never came true.
 
Posted by Brian on October 11, 2008 - Saturday - 5:15 PM
[Reply to this] 
Andrew
Andrew Werling

 
Yes yes yes!

Compassion is the only thing that makes sense. Anything out side of compassion is failure. Yes, simple, not easy of course. But that's no excuse not to go for it.
 
Posted by Andrew on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 2:57 AM
[Reply to this] 
alison

 
Try accountability. Fraudulent brokers, reckless speculation.
Down right lying is what got alot people in the foreclosure mess they are in.
What do you think happened to Ameriquest? They just dropped off the face of the earth?
Not to mention losing 600,000 jobs since January, 2008.
The last 30 years have indeed set us up for this crash.
 
Posted by alison on September 20, 2008 - Saturday - 12:05 PM
[Reply to this] 
Andrew
Andrew Werling

 
Great blog!

I'm almost in the "ignore Palin" mode myself.
 
Posted by Andrew on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 2:58 AM
[Reply to this] 
William
William Ferguson

 
I'm interested in what other creative way Bible Spice is going to stick her foot in her mouth.
 
Posted by William on September 27, 2008 - Saturday - 5:05 PM
[Reply to this] 
Billy P
Billy Pierce

 
I support deregulation, and I am opposed to the bail out. The crash is the free market's way of correcting itself. Capitalism works only when we allow it to do so. Government is not the solution to the problem. Government is the problem. Some market corrections (mini-crashes) are needed to deter banks and lenders from repeating this mistake in the future.

I support government oversight... but in a very limited form. Audits, random inspections, and enforcement of laws already on the books. Just basic law enforcement.

As far as the whole "lipstick on a pig" mess... I too believe it is a waste of our time. Maybe it will sway the votes of some people too stupid to understand real issues... as a conservative constitutionalist (not a republican) I agree with you that we should focus on the issues.
 
Posted by Billy P on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 3:41 AM
[Reply to this] 
Brian

 
+1
 
Posted by Brian on September 28, 2008 - Sunday - 1:34 AM
[Reply to this] 
alec
alec miller

 
i just want to know what happened to the free market and capitalism? i hope i used the right terms, i'm not real savy on the economic stuff, but what i do understand is that

if you have a business..... and your business fails..... you go out of business.

i don't give a shit if you are lehman brothers who has been around for 150 years or the copy shop down the street that opened two months ago. if you make bad business decisions, and you have to close shop, that's YOUR bad, not mine! why do taxpayers have to pay for these bailouts????

where do we draw the line? is it unfair for the aforementioned copy shop to ask the government for a huge loan to save their failed business? it doesn't seem like it should be.
 
Posted by alec on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 11:52 AM
[Reply to this] 
William
William Ferguson

 
Make one mistake, you lose your house. Fuck up big time and your Uncle flies in to bail you out.

How it must gall the Republicans that they are now the socialists they've painted us liberal Democrats as for so long.

Yes, Republicans, I said it: you're all a bunch of statists and socialists now that you've had the government intervene and save that precious free market you love so much.
 
Posted by William on September 19, 2008 - Friday - 3:23 PM
[Reply to this] 
Russell

 
William, you are so on target! Both the Republicans and Democrats are socialists! What gall these elected officials have in taking an oath to defend the constitution, yet, regardless of which of these two parties they are in they have inch by inch taken our individual liberty and given the power that comes with it to the government. Government intervention into the free market is unconstitutional.

If you believe in the constitution vote Libertarian.
 
Posted by Russell on September 20, 2008 - Saturday - 2:37 AM
[Reply to this] 
William
William Ferguson

 
Oh great, another major general of the tin foil hat brigade - a loony libertarian.

Hey dude, show me in the constitution where it says, without a doubt, that the government has no right to intervene into the market.

And your suggestion that the government let the businesses just do their thing is completely whacked out. Apprently during history class you were asleep when they discussed the Guilded Age of the Robber Baron, 12 hour workdays six days a week, child labor, getting your skull cracked for organizing a union, zero pensions, no workman's compensation for getting jacked up on the job (oh, you lost arm? tough shit - you're fired) and pittances for wages.

You really haven't been paying attention. The mess we are in today is due in large part to the deregulation that tried to bring us back to them good ol' days. The Republicans, who spearheaded this move Back To The Beginning, ended up having to nationalize the largest firms in America to keep the country from going under.

Nationalization...as in Socialism.

Your libertarian ways would just leave this country with two kinds of people: the truly needy and the truly greedy - and you wouldn't be one of the greedy.
 
Posted by William on September 20, 2008 - Saturday - 4:03 AM
[Reply to this] 
Russell

 
I happen to share the founding fathers' distrust of government.

I agree there would be those that would exploit others. For the bleeding heart it may sound cruel, but survival of the fittest has worked on this planet for hundreds of millions of years.

I argue the mess we are in today is not due in large part to deregulation, but due to pressure by the government to make "the American dream of home ownership" possible for more people. Prior to the creation of the FHA, an individual would have to come up with 25-50% of the value of a home to qualify for financing. Most would agree the more an individual has personally invested, the more likely the person is to meet their obligation to repay a debt. The FHA pushed the required down payment for a government insured loan to 3% to make housing affordable for more people. Banking/Mortgage entities want to be repaid the money they loan along with the interest they charge, that's why they do it. Although the intentions of the government were good in the creation of the FHA, it gave the false sense of reduced risk to those that loaned money and fostered personal irresponsibility in those that borrowed. Why would someone repay a $243,000 mortgage on a $250,000 home when the value of the home has declined 14% and all they have on the line is 8 grand? I wouldn't pay $250k plus interest for a home that was only worth $215k. I'd rather lose $8,000 than $35,000. Like it or not, people are more concerned about themselves than they are for the good of the whole. "Fuck it, the FHA will pay off the lender" is the thought of most when faced with a situation like that. If the government hadn't gotten involved to begin with, a 97% to value loan would have never been granted.

Along with individual freedom comes individual responsibility. You cannot have one without the other. If you remove the consequences of a bad decision, you do nothing but encourage more bad decisions.

I say let the finance industry crumble. Yes, it will devastate the global economy, but the survivors on the other side will be much stronger and more responsible.

And yes, I know I may not be one of the survivors.... but I just might be. That's life.
 
Posted by Russell on September 20, 2008 - Saturday - 1:32 PM
[Reply to this] 
William
William Ferguson

 
Anyone who votes Republican after this doesn't have a clue, nor could they buy one in a clue store with a gift card.
 
Posted by William on September 20, 2008 - Saturday - 4:13 AM
[Reply to this] 
Brian

 
I think it's apparent now that nobody, or at least no more than a silenced few, has a clue. Regardless of who they vote for this election, or even IF they vote. The mess we're pretending to deal with now has been a long time coming, and stems directly from the voters selling their votes to the highest bidder as opposed to the candidates that would do what is in the nation's best interest. We're seeing nothing more than the rotten fruit of a century of 'me too' and 'gimme mine' politics.

Let the failures fail. Wreck a business, find a new job. Lose a house because of ignoring sound/timeless investment and economic principles (as in don't buy what you can't afford), tough, rent and save up again. Unless we correct the attitudes of the greedy and lazy accross the board, we'll keep reaping the same mess over and over.

On the plus side of all of this, and there is one. Now is probably the best time to shore up whatever investments you have. It's a friggin fire sale on the market and with even an 'Idiot's Guide to...' approach to diversification, it would be really hard to not come out ahead in the long term. The housing market has been over-priced for more than a decade anyways, in another 18-24 months I'd love to jump on one of those foreclosed gems, but only once I can truly afford to keep one.
 
Posted by Brian on September 28, 2008 - Sunday - 1:57 AM
[Reply to this] 
Progressive America Times



Last Updated: 7/31/2007

Send Message
Instant Message
Email to a Friend
Subscribe

Who Gives Kudos:

Anonymous J.. (1)
Cykadelica (2)
PolitiKat (2)
Andrew (2)
alec (2)
William (2)
newyork4kuc.. (2)
Brian (2)
Jennifer (2)